Which one's better?

Which one's better?

There is a right answer, just so we're clear.

Other urls found in this thread:

apeirongame.com/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

The one that was actually finished.

Bioware are an embarrassment

so neither?

bioware is definitely an embarassment but reminder that obsidian is only good at fine tuning shit thats already been made. and this is coming ffrom an obsidian fanboy

at release, KOTOR

now, KOTOR 2

The right answer is that KOTOR 1 is the only finished game, obviously. If you're counting mods (which you 100% shouldn't but whatever) then TSLRCM is pretty good, but it doesn't change the underlying problems with the narrative. Mainly, the villains in KOTOR 2 fucking suck. Malak was a flawed character that felt like a person, and his arrogance is what ended up causing his downfall. The Sith Lords in KOTOR 2 are a faggot who talks about pain constantly in a Christian Bale Batman voice and a black hole in the force that consumes planets. They're edgy fagboys that don't have any personal connection to the player character. Malak, on the other hand, has an interesting narrative to him, because firing on his master to take power for himself ends up causing his downfall. He has ambitions, wants to claim power for himself, and generally behaves like a person. The Sith in KOTOR 2 fail on every front to be compelling villains.

That said, Obsidian is really good at creating situations for the player to interact with. Their side missions and unimportant characters are definitely cooler but still. The overarching narrative of KOTOR 1 (which is what's important in a Bioware-style RPG) is so much fucking better than that of KOTOR 2.

Malak is a Saturday morning cartoon villain
>Sion and Nihilus are the only Sith in KOTOR 2
so did you not finish it or

Kreia is also a shit tier villain that fails to capture the feeling of the franchise she's in. To a lot of players she just comes out of nowhere near the end of the game with a fake nose and a mustache on and goes "Hee ho I was the real villain the whole time, guy!" The overarching narrative of the game has absolutely no urgency to it. The only villains the game gives you at the beginning are faggots. So on your way to becoming a Jedi again the only sense of urgency you have comes from restoring the council, something that Kreia constantly nags you about and stands against you every step of the way. It really doesn't feel like a Star Wars story at all. Kreia also shows the problems with the Influence system, as you often can't see most of what she has to say unless you go out of your way to break the character you're roleplaying to even be able to talk to her.

Also, way to get your opinions from a shitty cherrypicked meme rofl
>DAE LE SATURDAY MORNING CARTOON XD
Please at least give some reasoning or explanation to your garbage tier opinions thanks

>it's a "fag didn't know how to get influence with Kreia because he was playing straight dark side/straight light side" episode
>it's a "KotOR 2 doesn't feel like muh Star Wars" episode
I hate reruns

Yeah fuck me for wanting my Star Wars game to feel like a Star Wars game what a fucking dumbass amirite
How fucking stupid can you get jfc

It's okay to like kotor 1 but you need to acknowledge that it's not very well written and only "feels like Star Wars" to people who grew up with the Prequel Trilogy (because they're similarly trash). I'm guessing you're what, twenty? Maybe younger?

You'll understand when you're older.

so did Republic Commando not feel like a Star Wars game? After all, it didn't have a central villain, there were no Jedi or the Force beyond tangential references.

What about Battlefront? After all, it didn't even have a central narrative. Jedi weren't even playable.

"It doesn't feel like Star Wars" is the most empty criticism of KotOR 2 that's brought up CONSTANTLY. It re-examines and recontextualizes the central themes of Star Wars, but for some reason, not being a straight black-and-white morality tale makes it not REAL Star Wars. Some of the best Star Wars EU books and comics veered from imitating ANH and introduced shades of grey out the ass. At this point, Star Wars is a setting, not a narrative that must be adhered to.

Darth Sion has a very personal connection with the Exile because they are both being consumed by the very same trauma and disease, you dullard. Sion is what the Exile might have become, and exists as a warning against what still might happen to them if they don't master themselves and come to terms with Malachor. His story is seamlessly integrated into the games themes in a subtle and nuance way while still feeling important and meaningful, and his eventual end is more evocative of the emotive and dramatic experience that capstones the Original Trilogy than the fucking abysmal Star Forge fight with Malak sucking out people's lives, lol.

Are you fifteen?

>Malak was a flawed character that felt like a person, and his arrogance is what ended up causing his downfall.

If this is believable to you as a motivation then I question whether or not your handler should allow you to post on Sup Forums.

Nihilus and Sion are both "THIS COULD BE YOU" for the Exile

KOTOR 1 actually had an ending (shit or nonexistent endings are my pet peeve) and wasn't obnoxious with its incessant attempts to be this deep, morally ambiguous antithesis to what Star Wars is actually about.

And 90% of KOTOR 2 is listening to Chris Avellone's obnoxious mary sue mouth piece.

Yes. And that's very cool.

The sequel, no contest.

>They're edgy fagboys that don't have any personal connection to the player character.

Nihilus represents what the player character could be had he taken different choices. Sion considers himself to the Exile a rival for Kreia's affection. And Kreia herself has a giant old lady boner for the PC. There's not a "No, I am your father" connection, but there are thematic connections with each villain.

>To a lot of players she just comes out of nowhere near the end of the game

This is why discussing KOTOR 2 is hard. A lot of players don't pay attention to the game, or they simply miss out on content unintentionally. Kreia is very obviously *not* a good guy from your first conversation with her. This is Obisidan playing with RPG conventions and player expectations like always. "She's a member of your party who fulfills the Obi-Wan Kenobi mentor role. How can she not be a good guy?" Yet nearly every line she delivers indicates that she isn't a good person and does not share the same goals as the PC.

>So on your way to becoming a Jedi again the only sense of urgency you have comes from restoring the council

Defeating the Sith? Discovering why the Council exiled you? Discovering the nature of your Force bond with Kreia?

>It really doesn't feel like a Star Wars story at all.

This doesn't actually mean anything.

>to break the character you're roleplaying to even be able to talk to her.

I mean, do you think games should handhold and give you every reward regardless of how you choose to play? Do you want Fallout 4's system, where characters ignore how much of a cunt you are to them?

I can understand why people wouldn't like the Influence system, but I don't think that your point is a good one. It absolutely makes sense for a character to not give their deepest darkest secrets to someone they don't even like.

>Also, way to get your opinions from a shitty cherrypicked meme rofl

You used the phrase "edgy fagboys" without a hint of irony.

the first one, like with most things

The original Star Wars /is/ deep and morally ambiguous, faggot. If anything, kotor 1 is less faithful to masterpieces like Empire.

Also you don't know what a god damn Mary Sue is.

Nah the shooter Star Wars games are usually pretty solid, but they lack the kind of legendary feel that games about Jedi do. They put you in the mindset of being a soldier on the front lines of a conflict, but the overarching narrative about balance in the force is what I find most compelling about the series. The conflict between light side and dark side is very similar to the feel that the best Zelda games have. The feeling of being a hero rising up to meet the needs of the galaxy to maintain balance is awesome. It often creates black-and-white morality situations but that's fine because they feel more like legends and stories than history. It's a hero's journey, rather than a nerd jacking off to how sick it would be if [X situation] happened in the Star Wars universe.

Sorry but if you don't think Kreia isn't hamfisted down the players throat at every turn in KOTOR 2, I don't know what to tell you. It gets to the point where Kreia is the real star of the game and now the Exile.

its fair to call avellone characters mouthpieces, but theyre not mary sue at all.

>it's ok to like kotor 1 but only if you're a braindead scumfuck retard piece of shit faggot who likes the prequels XD
Wow this might actually be the worst bait I've ever seen in my life

Who here played Jedi Outcast

"Light side" is just some shit they made up in video games. It used to be there was the Force, and then it had a dark side and that was it. The Force was just that - a force that surrounds us, penetrates and binds us as luminous beings, that could be sued for good or evil. Then Lucas wanted to sell toys to children so we had to ruin the whole thing.

Both games have their own flaws and strengths and I fully enjoyed both of them.

Say whatever you want, but KotOR 1 is the comfiest game ever. 99% of the game is GOAT af.
The second one is a great rpg overall.
KotOR dilogy is one of the best thins that happened to videogames.

It's objectively true.

A character being relevant to the story doesn't make them a Mary Sue. (Just as a protip: in order for someone to be a Mary Sue, they need to be portrayed as flawless - the entire climax of Kotor 2 is you telling Kreia to eat shit)

Face it, every character in KOTOR 2 takes a back seat to that old hag who has to be in damn near every cutscene, proselytizing about what you're supposed to do and not supposed to do. She's a constant annoyance, and the fact that you're bonded with this insufferable woman makes it even worse.

This. Kreia's character is a huge waste. The moment that did it in for me is when you lose influence because you help a refugee who's dying of the plague. You can even do that as an easy out for the Exchange sidequest in that area, but Kreia still drones on about people pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and trickle-down forcenomics and it's just asinine. Like look here you fucking old cunt my Treat Injury was high enough and no one else was going near this fucker, so if I don't help him literally no one will. Your cryptic bullshit doesn't apply here, nor does it in many other places in the narrative.

So you're annoyed that the mentor character mentored? What an intelligent, well-reasoned complaint...

The whole point of the game is that it doesn't apply, that's why she's the villain.

nothing you just said has anything to do with what i said

Are you retarded? The original trilogy was great because it was so fucking simple. It didn't bog itself down with trite philosophy between the light and dark side or politics, it was just a big bad empire that needed shooting. KOTOR 1 worked so well because it implemented the RPG traditions without straying too far from the simplicity of the world. There is a bad guy making war, you have moral choices that have consequences, and there is shooting and action; it's quintessentially Star Wars.

So she's the villain because she's a constant annoyance to the player? Great writing, that

no, because Obi Wan didn't feel the need to berate on everything Luke did, down to the letter.

There's a right way to do mentor characters, and Kreia ain't it.

>calls a kotor 2 character a mary sue while posting Revan

kotor II
it's fun.
didn't play kotor

Kreia is more of a Mary Sue than Revan, sorry.

>want to play KOTOR1
>its not remastered and whenever i mod it the hud stays at the 800x600 shit
ahASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>taking Kreia to heal the refugee
>when doing so locks you out of gaining Influence with Bao-Dur

I want a KOTOR 1 remake so badly but I also know Nu-Bioware would fucking ruin it.

>old blind hag missing a hand
>mary sue
bruh

apeirongame.com/
i hope they dont fuck this up, i'll donate loads of money if it ends up good

Flawless Widescreen.
Now send me Bastila nudes.

>implying appearance is relevant at all

It's another biproduct of the Influence system being shit. They needed more places to fit in getting POINTS so you could unlock more dialog.

Other biproducts of this are light side characters never being able to see any HK-47 or similar characters' dialog unless you straight up murder people constantly. It encourages replayability but absolutely axes immersion, which is what most of the game seems to emphasize. It's inconsistent and bad.

you will never mating press Bastila into a babbling cock drunk mess

>Revan
space jesus who was playing trump level 4D chess with the entire galaxy

>Kreia
old blind lady who was cucked by both the jedi and the sith

as i said, she's definitely an author insert for avellone to talk about the light/dark side dynamic in star wars, but she isn't a perfect or idealized character. she has faults that she even addresses in game.

swtor

KotOR2 is a better game and has vastly superior writing, but KotOR1 is a better Star Wars game.

kill yourself

This.

>game tries to bust you out of being a min-maxing straight lightside/straight darkside fag with the influence system
>WAH WHY DO I HAVE TO MAKE CHOICES THAT MIGHT GO AGAINST MY AUTISTIC NEED TO BE ONLY THE GOOD GUY OR ONLY THE BAD GUY

I fail to see why space Jesus is even a bad thing. It's fucking Star Wars, hello? The only consistent thing with the many narratives that have been created in that universe is that the big bad gets fucked and then order is restored for a short time before the next big bad. It's about heroes rising up and stopping the dark side so that there can be balance in the force. I think you're barking up the wrong tree, here.

>KOTOR1
OTfags who actually like Star Wars for what it is
>KOTOR2
nuTfags who dont actually like Star Wars it just happen to have something they like

>"m-muh Kreia" zombie sith
>legitimate threat
He was just a spoiled child complaining that his mom stopped giving full attention to him. He and the other stupid "gimmick power" sith are some of the silliest villains I've seen in the SW series.
Kreia single-handed gave KOTOR 2 a decent story (and a reason to play this broken ass game to begin with). Nothing else about the story or the other characters is better than any other Expanded Universe game, and even if you ignore all the bugs and shit (because restoration mod just makes the game "less broken"), the gameplay isn't much better than KOTOR1 either (at least it fixed how weak sentinel was in the first game).

Fine, I concede. That doesn't mean Kreia doesn't almost ruin the game with her ubiquitous bullshit.

How is Kreia a mary sue? Part of the reason she joins the exile is precisely because she's can't beat the other sith lords by herself.She knows she can't beat nihilus, so she manipulates the exile into doing it.

>autistic need to be only the good guy or the bad guy
>to get influence with HK you literally need to bomb an innocent unarmed Mandalorian and then laugh at it with him
Yeah gee whiz guys I must be a fucking retard who's completely set in his Jedi ways

>i dont like kreia because shes a mary sue
>whats wrong with revan being a mary sue?

even if youre not the same guy, that is the conversation you walked in on

>A FUCKING TREE

DUDE MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICES
LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE

BE NEUTRAL BECAUSE I FUCKING TOLD YOU SO LMAO

10/10 quality writing as you would expect from Obsidian

Yeah no I disagree with calling Kreia a mary sue lol, but my point stands. You're both being dummies.

there are several instances where the Light side option gives you influence with HK

They both compliment each other pretty well tbqh. I prefer kotor 2 as i think it's better in almost every way. It's biggest problem of course is being unpolished and unfinished, but with the mod it feels like a complete experience.

i fucked up big time on my current playthrough

>go to nar shaddaa first
>Visas seems pretty cool, ill let her stay. always travel with max jedis
>handmaiden: "no she's bad abloobloo"
>literally no way to get that bitch to even talk to me again

That's just actually a lie lmao, the only place where light side options give you an influence gain with HK are when you show sympathy to Akkere on Dantooine, but it's a glitch. In his dialog it sounds like he disapproves.

yeah old star wars doesnt have any ambiguity, thats why greedo shot first

>it's a glitch
>literally just reading off the GameFAQs influence guide and didn't play the game

>I want to experience ALL CONTENT IN THE GAME regardless of my roleplaying choices!
maybe Fallout 4 is more your speed

>everything should just stay the same

You're the reason we'll get to episode 50 and they're still just be rehashing a new hope

I mean KOTOR 1 did it pretty fucking well. You didn't need to be the same alignment or make the same choices as your companions to be able to talk to them. Revan felt more like a leader than someone who just forms arbitrary bonds with whatever shmuck comes along with you for the journey.

tell us the choices that gain influence then. he constantly talks about murder, and thats all he wants to do. humoring him means you're committing dark side actions

>I should replay this entire game an additional 2 times for 1 party member's dialogue each
everyone else pretty much required light side to gain influence with

Wtf i played these games when i was like 10 and i still found Sith Lords the better of the wo.

>this how retarded KOTOR2fags are

no surprises here though

You essentially just want choices without consequence. That's a big reason rpg's are like they are today. If they don't have an impact or change anything there is no point having choices at all.

>we'll never get a game where at the endgame we're hyper powerful and have crazy abilities or powers, such as Nihilus' deathfield, Kreia's triple sword fighting, etc
they need to get creative with the shit powerful jedi / sith can do, then give those abilities to the players

>Player protagonist is a Mary Sue because they make it to the end of the game

Shit, every game is based around Mary Sues then

G0-T0, Mandalore, Hanharr, and Visas don't

also Mira and Atton are pretty neutral

>they need to get creative with the shit powerful jedi / sith can do, then give those abilities to the players

last time they did that you hated on it big time for both games

while i actually had fun with those powers and the game

is KOTOR1 or KOTOR2 better in terms of combat? Or are they the same?

Also, since i want to play it again, what's the best level to stop at before becoming a jedi? to max out power as a jedi

i want to go light but dark gets the cool armor, and you can't even get Revan's robes unless you're DS

KotOR felt like an actual Star Wars experience. KotOR2 felt like the worst parts of EU crap, which have their own devoted following (but I personally don't care for).

There's a bit of a divide between Star Wars fans. There's the ones who actually like Lucas-style Star Wars (KotOR), and those who wish that it was more edgy grimdark (KotOR2) and super cereal.

Don't the updated Steam versions support new systems and widescreen resolution? I remember the based studio that did the android ports also did the Linux ports for free, just because it literally takes just the compiling time once you've the code.

>you hated on it
explain
the only time i've hated on a star wars game was EABattlefront

Combat-wise, they were the same (that is, not particularly good, but nobody did a Star Wars CRPG before).

combat is the same

KOTOR2 is better because you can specialize but that just means different animations for attacks honestly. its the only thing kotor2 has better

2's gameplay is vastly better

stopping around level 4 is enough that you won't get bodied on Taris but still have a good number of levels left for Jedi

They're basically the same. Combat is shit either way in both.

Well like I said earlier in the thread I don't think that style works particularly well for Star Wars. Bioware is better at delivering strong central narratives, and Obsidian is better at being a virtual DM that provides situations for the player to put their own spin on things. But it's fucking Star Wars, so I'd prefer the stronger central narrative 10 times out of 10. Of course, in more open-world RPGs focused more on world-building than on creating a strong central theme, I'd prefer the Obsidian style.

the force unleashed 1-2

supposedly they are bad, i still dont know why
yes, story/canon-wise the powerlevel is retarded, 2 is short as fuck but they are fun

i played the shit out of the first one on both PS2 and X360
its fucking sad that PSP got the best version

Just use a mod to get Revan's robes lol

The first one by far. It's really not even a contest. The first is the actual achievement when it comes to creativity and design, whereas the sequel is honestly more like an expansion at best that reuses a ton of shit and everything good about it is basically lifted over. The few and frankly negligible gameplay improvements it brought about don't make up for how utterly garbage it is in every single other aspect.

>Kreia
>Not a good guy
You have learned nothing
All you had to do was listen

is there anywhere i can pirate those? i like them but i only have them on 360

>still thinking in terms of good and bad

Looks like you're the one who learned nothing

2 was way too verbose
1 was great, though

>only good planet in both games is Korriban

Why were the planets so shit Sup Forums?