*removes engineer*

*removes engineer*

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reeeeeee

enjoy scout having even less counters and games being boring as fuck without things to blow up and teleporters to take to the frontline

*removes players*

With his shitty optimization and no content updates.

Dead game.

*removes pyro*
Things went better than expected

sniper is the most op class

Game is like the 4th most played thing on steam lul.

>Dead game
right sorry the full servers I've been playing with all day are somehow empty?
what an idiot

no, sniper is balanced

anyone who's played at least 2000 hours knows medic is the most OP class, that's why they limit him to 1 in comp

can't win a game without him

ctf would actually be kinda sorta playable now

>sniper is balanced
>one shots you from across the map
>taunts

1400 hours
Would have say demo/medic ...

>dominate enemy sniper with the piss rifle set on
>taunt
>he rages in chat and leaves
Those were the days.

Sniper is the worst thing about tf2

>you are now aware that there are people on here who have wasted half a year of their lives playing Hat Simulator

Yes, you have accurately described how Snipers kill people in a unique way and thus make themselves worth picking

You have failed to describe how Sniper is overpowered for that level

In the only form of competitive TF2 that's relevant, Sniper is the fifth most picked class, and only the very best Sniper players get results

You being salty because you died doesn't mean something is overpowered.

And by the way, this isn't bias, I play Medic.
Whether you think he's a good addition to the game or not, he isn't overpowered.

>wasted
surprising stance for someone posting on Sup Forums

I only come back here once a month or so and for some reason I'm always surprised by how quickly I find the degenerates.

No, pyro and engie are.

Sniper has serious balance issues when it comes to his unlocks but stock only he is fine and is necessary to keep medics from getting too powerful. Furthermore he is properly skill indexed and is hard to play consistently and effectively so very good snipers are few and far between.

Pyro and engineer however are not skill indexed in the slightest and cause far too many stalemates with minimal effort. Setting up multiple sentries in different spots with pyros spychecking and denying ubers is a popular strategy that is very difficult to counter without a forward teleporter, skilled scouts, and multiple coordinated ubers.

They honestly shouldn't have made it so you can't move your sentry after building.

Engie's unlock weapons made it so that keeping his buildings alive no sweat. Having to go switch to direct hit/loch n load only see another 3 sentries built is really excruciating.

All engie does is slow the game down. Literally the only good thing about him is the teleporters.

>he posts on Sup Forums
>he doesn't think he's a degenerate
news for you buddy

I disagree with you on Building moving, I think it helps offensive engineers move the game forward and PREVENT stalemates.

But I agree on Wrangler and Rescue Ranger and Short Circuit, they all need another round of nerfs as they are far too efficient at defending.

Sniper isn't bad because he can oneshot you, he's bad because he can oneshot you without you being able to do anything about it other than move around more. At least with spy you can outright kill him, sniper is usually too far away.

Yes, that's called low counterplay. Not being overpowered.

Sniper has depressingly low counterplay to his oneshot kills, but the oneshots are balanced by the skill requirement of hitting a small moving target consistently enough to make yourself more useful than a Scout, Soldier or Demo in the same position. That's why Sniper isn't overpowered.

Why are you so shit at the game. Sentry guns are easy to kill. Same with the autist complaining abouy pyro work on getting better then the 12 year olds playing them.

There is not a single instance of being killed by a sniper that doesn't feel like bullshit.

>engie slows the game down and that is supposedly a bad thing
You do realize the one and only objective on defense is to waste blue team's time?

well im literally playing right now and

>stand still in his los
>die

you understand these things when you're a mature adult user

they're talking about games not ending in symmetrical modes (CTF, SD, 5CP, sometimes KOTH, but most importantly 5CP) because Engineers create such a strong defense on last points that neither side can actually push to win and end the game.

The team with Engineers can't push out because they are immobilized, and the team without Engineers can't push in because of level 3 Wrangled Sentries being healed by the Rescue Ranger

>skill floor and ceiling accounts into balance
so with that logic, if everybody was playing at their highest capacity humanly possible, would everyone be a sniper?

That's fine assuming equal teams but that is rarely the case. Something I see all the time is a team getting steamrolled to last and then holding for the next 10 minutes with a dozen sentries. 5cp is the absolute fucking worst in this regard and is the main reason why nobody wants to play it in pubs even though they're generally regarded as good maps. It's not just 5cp either, barnblitz is a notorious example of engineer's slowing the game to a halt.

>CTF, SD
Nobody should expose himself to this in the first place
>5CP
In what world do you live in where engineers are played on 5cp, let alone be a problem there? What slows the game far more is timer reset to 10 minutes after ever cap.
>Koth
This was a problem mainly with minisentries, but those were cut down to size.

Yes, but no full team ever does play at their highest capacity thankfully

if TF2's player skill level ever advances to that point, I'd be advocating banning sniper outright

so you do admit that some classes are more favorable than others
If they aren't equal, then wouldn't sniper be OP?

5CP is shit

>Nobody should expose himself to this in the first place
CTF has been the defining and original mode of the Team Fortress series since Quake. It shouldn't be reduced to this shitty state. If TF2 had more offensive assets, fewer defensive assets, and better CTF map design, then CTF would be a good and playable mode.
>In what world do you live in where engineers are played on 5cp, let alone be a problem there?
The fuck are you talking about? Engineers build Sentries on lasts on 5CP all the time, both in competitive and pubs.
>This was a problem mainly with minisentries, but those were cut down to size
True, I'm talking about full sentries moreso, and how they are used to turtle the cap to the point nobody can do anything.

Engineer's unlocks (wrangler, short circuit and rescue ranger) are unfortunately a negative influence on the enjoyability of TF2.

i think you mean CTF

I prefer other modes myself, but 5CP is the second best mode to play TF2 competitively, since it can be back-and-forth the whole game and encourages exciting mobility.

>Engineers build Sentries on lasts on 5CP all the time, both in competitive
No.

>if everybody was playing at their highest capacity humanly possible
The best players in the world usually hit around ~40-50% of their headshots. At 100% yes sniper is game breakingly overpowered but that simply isn't possible. At that percentage sniper still has glaring flaws and it's hard to justify taking him over another class which is why he isn't run fulltime in 6s. Balancing sniper comes down to 3 things.
>Map design
>Firing speed
>Movement
Good map design that breaks sniper sightlines is key to keeping sniper close enough for a skilled soldier or scout to close the gap. Metalworks being the ideal in my opinion. Firing speed to control how much downtime there is between shots so that he is easily overwhelmed without other players protecting him. Movement speed limits how often he can change positions so that with good callouts you can safely take flank routes to avoid his sightlines.

literally go watch any match or play any pub game. Do you even play TF2?

I forgot that Valve added a "competitive" mode so let me correct myself.
Not, in the actual competitive mode.

I AM talking about community competitive. Valve comp isn't worth talking about until they improve it.

It's also shit

I've lost count of how many times my team decied to turtle up at last and stall the game for eternity. Maybe it works in competitive but i don't play competitive.

Then you're wrong.

I'm very correct, and you have no clue what you're talking about.

Can someone point out to this moron for me that people do build Sentries on last in 5CP, both in comp and pubs?

>tfw I like to play engineer on turbine and set up on the opposing team's battlements in mid and watch them futilely try to take down 1 nest

I know, I'm the worst.

Sniper is bullshit cause they made an item to be a hard counter to his hard counter.
Let that sink in.

>I'm very correct
No.

Sorry but you're wrong and if you keep insisting this isn't the case nobody is going to take you seriously. Engineer is used almost ALWAYS when there is time to setup in 6s, he is a very effective defender.

>you're wrong
No.

Don't run around in the open numbnuts.

Razorback is fine outside of Highlander. Spies can counteract it easily enough with their Revolver or Ambassador.

The real bullshit is Jarate, Sydney Sleeper, and Darwin's Danger Shield. Those are what you should be complaining about.

youtube.com/watch?v=1hYZbyUK170

>players were so much better before the game went free-to-play

youtube.com/watch?v=95iwH1UsFC4

>Spies can counteract it easily enough with their Revolver or Ambassador.
Assuming his teammates are idiots and don't bother defending him. This is usually the case in pubs but not always. Also standing next to sentries is always an effective spy deterrent without much teamwork needed to setup.

>Headshot him once and bodyshot him
Wow that was hard

Why jarate? Its a good way to help your team take down a medic combo quickly before they have chance to uber

>Scunts bitching about sentries again
I don't see why it's such a problem for you to switch to soldier for one minute and fire two DH rockets.

Don't bother user, Nostalgia Goggles are the one thing in TF2 with no counter.

In nostalgiafags' eyes, 2007 TF2 was impossible to improve upon, perfectly balanced, very competitive, bug-free, had lots of great maps to choose from, and all the players were Aryan chess champion geniuses.

>Its a good way to help your team take down a medic combo quickly before they have chance to uber
That's the problem, one throwable item deciding a team fight is rather silly.

I loved playing as engi with a mini sentry just to fuck with scout mains

Question for the soldier mains.

Do you prefer to use horns or shotguns when playing seriously?

Shotgun is the only choice for serious play, but horns are more fun.

Shotgun.
Good scouts are fucking terrifying.

Its better to use a banner a like the battalions back up to help protect your team when pushing, i only use the shotty on KOTH maps

Shotty, being able to buff your team is nice but when I go full tryhard I bring the shotgun because 10 shots gives me a lot more options to kill people.
I'm a scout main, but soldier is my next best class

I haven't played this shit since the MvM update.
How dead is it

>Its a good way to help your team take down a medic combo quickly before they have chance to uber
Yep, that's the main reason it's bullshit.

The splash radius of Jarate is so large that there's pretty much no way to dodge it-- it's more than double the size of a regular Rocket or Grenade explosion.

This means that a Sniper wielding Jarate has an almost guaranteed means of forcing the enemy Medic combo to back off or die to minicrits. With just 2 accurate rockets from one of his allies, Sniper can have exactly the same result with his secondary as if he'd landed 2 headshots.

Additionally, it's yet another counter to the two shittest classes in TF2 (Spy and Pyro), and allows Sniper (meant to be a long-range class weak at close range) to have a guaranteed instakill at close range.

6s leagues tried it out extensively in the early part of this year, then unanimously agreed to ban it again.

ginboats

Don't reply to this guy anymore: Gunboats are what most roamers use.

What I've always thought is that they need to nerf the sentry gun in general but make it easier to set up/upgrade, so that when it's destroyed it's not that big a deal. The class just too strong some times and too weak other times because of how sentries work.
Could also give the Engie more health so he can play the game with his shotgun a bit more.

It's not dead and it's still fun, especially if you know a good community server.

I play a nocrit DM server in Australia called Hitler's Jewfort

Admitting that you're wrong is ok.

Honestly, Engie just needs a complete overhaul. He needs to be better at support and utility, but worse at being a no-skill, one-man point defender. That'd probably mean a nerf to his sentry/sentry-related secondaries and melees, but a buff to teleporters and dispensers (quicker build times, namely).

stock/battalion/escape plan

I sort of support this concept, but first I'd like to see how much simply nerfing the weapons that make him more turtly helps. Engineer would be a lot more tolerable if he couldn't stand 10 feet away from his Sentry safely out of splash range while healing it with Rescue Ranger.

I use Concheror, Original, and Escape Plan.

In other news, Escape Plan is overpowered as shit. Nerf when? I don't see any downside at all to using it over stock.

Which means I can't viably use Conscientious Objector on Soldier. And that ruins my Hippie Soldier loadout.

Mini sentry was supposed to fill that role but valve did a poor job of balancing it. The real issues with the mini is the knockback and aimpunch making it extremely effective for knocking players out of the sky and disorienting players but instead valve slowed down its build time which hurt its role as a versatile offensive sentry. What they should have done instead is
>No knockback
>No aimpunch
>102 metal to build
>Drops 2 metal when destroyed
>Revert build speed and repairs
So that you can't just drop one, run away, and build another. They no longer affect aerial movement or become difficult to hit once in range. Engineers who stay and fight should be rewarded and those who use it simply as an escape tool punished for it.

Whoops
>Drops 4 metal*

An idea I had was to make the sentry shoot not so hard to dodge projectiles instead of hitscan so you can do something against it when playing a faster class. It would also mean that their usefulness at longer ranges would be a lot lower.

The speed buff may be too large, but telagraphig "look at me, I'm low health and take minicrits" is a disadvantage.

>but valve did a poor job of balancing it
Minis were balanced fine. They weren't meant to turn Engie into a supporting class, they were just meant to make him more offensive, and they did that admirably.

Stop fucking with something that's balanced.

Yeah, but the whole class needs to be more like that, I think. Otherwise it's just too much of a specialist or a one trick pony.

Yeah, I agree. The class needs just a bit more versatility, in my opinion. And by that I don't mean just ways to be more offensive.

>but telagraphig "look at me, I'm low health and take minicrits" is a disadvantage
People are going to shoot at me anyway in the situation where I need to use Escape Plan. I never feel like I'm giving anything away.

And I don't mind the highness of the speed buff so long as they put a proper downside on the weapon. The speed buff is fun and should stay, but I need an actual reason not to equip Escape Plan.

>10 years later, there's still a 50k steady playerbase despite Valve's often idiotic updating schedule

It's a testament to how strong the game is.

>nerf literally split the Equalizer in half
>still the most dominant melee weapon in the entire game besides the ubersaw
What a fun weapon

Something is so enticing about it, I rage quit but 10 minutes later I want to play it again

I would have preferred it if, instead of splitting the Equalizer at all, they had just slapped a 15 or 25 max HP nerf on it (like Eyelander) and called it a day. Because the old Equalizer was way more fun than this.

Now one half is still OP and the other half is fucking boring.

Engi unlocks have been by far the most gamechanging of all, I don't know what more do you want. He can now patrol with RR instead of jus wearing a gibus and crouching behind a sentry. He can go on a rampage with widowmaker. He can do hi&run with FJ. He can rocket jump with the wrangler and harass snipers. He can confront soldiers and demos with short circuit (well maybe not win but at least chase them away). He can teleport aroun if he feels like it. And if he's feeling extra cheeky, he can wrangle a minisentry.

>every time I get the itch to play I remember that all my old servers are either gone or permanently empty

>Stop fucking with something that's balanced.
It's not though. Being able to shutdown the movement of THREE classes by throwing down a mini is fucking idiotic and the aimpunch is the same as regular sentries.

Not him but RR, Wrangler, and Short Circuit are all far better for turtling than they are for being offensive.

RR's main use is for tanking your Sentry.

Wrangler's main use is for tanking your Sentry.

Short Circuit's main use is for stopping Demos and Soldiers for shooting your Sentry (or otherwise being mildly annoying).

>THREE classes
I can only think of scout and pyro. Who else gets terribly affected?

Well, what I mean was that the sentry gun itself is the problem. It's too strong but too expensive/hard to maintain.
It's like when you play Engineer you're playing your own game of keeping your sentry up and upgraded. I'd just like if the class had to play a bit more TF2.

soldier and demo
>jump
>drop like a brick because of 8 damage bullets from a sentry that took a fraction of a second to build

Casual is an acceptable substitute

I'll take it that you've never charged into battle against a sticky spammer, a strafing scout, or a spy with the short circuit, huh?

>WAHH WAHH WHY CANT I MARKET GARDEN EVERYWHERE ON MY 24/7 HIGHTOWER SERVER

Normal Sentries do the exact same thing as Sentries. They go up quicker and they're easier to kill in return. They're balanced.

This is one of the reasons why I suggested the projectile shooting sentries instead of hitscan.
It's useful because it forces people to move to avoid it but at least it's avoidable if you're not too close to it and it would stop ruining air momentum for free.

The current jag kind of addresses that, to an extent. It's not great at keeping buildings up, but quick at erecting them, so it's best to plop lv2 sentries, treat them as more disposable than usual and go about your business with a shotgun.

>soldier and demo
That's why you shoot it you dingus. If you jumped at a sentry, it was your own fault for not being aware of it. If you saw it being built you wouldn't jump.