1. We cannot be certain of the other players choices, communicate to agree on a choice or trust them to make a certain choice
2. This means we can only make choices based on probability
3. Red wins the most matchups of any single choice, even though all green is the best choice (assuming the penalty does not apply to the enemy team)
4. Therefore Red is the best choice to make based on probability.
5. Because it's the best choice to make, more people will pick it
6. Because more people pick red, there are less people to pick green and you can only rely on probability and not cooperation, green will be inherently weaker as there are less other green players to get a bonus from.
7. Therefore red is more likely to win then before.
You don't need the fucking prisoner's dilemma to prove red is that best. That only comes into play if the matchups are equal or in green's favor.
1. We cannot be certain of the other players choices...
You failed to prove point 3.
Also 4.
Even 2 is shaky.
And 1 assumes that everybody playing is operating on their own unique logic, which isn't likely.
>tfw autistic purplefags screech at me for using the objective best gun
but how much health does each player have?
You would never want to choose green, because you could only beat red by 5 points if EVERYONE had a green gun, and if everyone had a green gun, then they would all deal that kind of damage. So, even if everyone picks green and you pick red, you still do more damage than 3 green guns (40+30-15=55).
Green gun is entirely eliminated. Nobody would choose it. Purple is too big of a gamble for limited returns, as if you didn't pick the purple, you would sure as shit pick the red, and even 1 red gun makes the purple gun beyond worthless.
In this scenario, simply from a risk perspective, nobody would choose anything but the red gun, simply because if you didn't choose the purple gun, you would certainly choose the red. 2 purples fuck you, and a red would fuck you.
The blue gun MIGHT work, but again, the gains are too limited to roll the dice.
Green master race here
The 4 player aspect of this ruins it. If it was something like 8 players, it would be a lot more interesting.
I'll take the rifle that deals 200 and actually requires me to interact by aiming.
Seriously, what sort of kusoge has auto-hit.
Here, I patched your game OP.
The playerbase has dropped to battleborn levels. Good job
>Using cooldowns
If I had known this was a thing at the store, I wouldn't pick it up. If I didn't know, I would return it.
Lemme improve this game for you.
All pistols fire thrice a second. 500 HP per player. Heal 100 HP when you kill somebody. No other healing. No crits. No auto-hit, learn to fucking aim.
Red deals 80 a shot. That's it.
Blue deals 50 a shot. Fires an extra shot each second for each red gun on the team.
Green deals 40 a shot. Gets an extra 20 for each other green gun on the team. Gets an extra 5 for each green gun on the other team.
Purple deals 100 damage, divided by the number of purples in the game.
Fine, here's the new Balance Patch
Nowhere does it say every OTHER green gun on the team. They start at 55, and go to 100 with 4.
it's a team game dude, you aren't competing with the other 3 players
you are fighting zombies, or another team
if you pick red you are hurting your team, will overall have a lower win percentage, and be a silver rank scrub
green is the correct choice
Still has cooldowns. No buy.
Is a better idea than yours. Your idea is worse than the original.
>Is a better idea than yours. Your idea is worse than the original.
Very sorry that you'll have to aim.
You'll literally die if you don't play it.
all red = 320
all green = 400
3 red, 1 blue= 345
3 green, 1 purple= 310
all green is best and easiet to achieve
>most popular gun is red
>choose blue to directly counter them
>mfw red players begin to screech about how overpowered blue is
Your maths is a little off but your conclusion is correct. The OP established that already.
The question is: do you trust your fellow pubbies to pick green too?
He meant that is good. And that the guy with cooldowns is a retard.
Red doesn't counter blue, it just feeds off it. You're a leech and you are actually contributing to lower win rates because if more people pick blue suddenly you lost all your damage.
>team game
>blue benefits from allied reds
>"countering" your own team mates
I'm sorry for you carer.
The shitty thing about Blue is that since this is a four player party, Blue's maximum damage is 95. At only 15 more than Red, it's hard to justify. Of course, we don't know the rules of the game either; if the enemy has a thousand health then the other guns are worth considering but otherwise, Red dominates here.
Purple isn't even worth considering due to its incredibly harsh drawbacks; you might as well Alt+F4 if you hit either of the two backfire situations.
This one's much better. The penalties aren't as harsh and most of the time there are benefits. Red is still the best due to consistency but the other guns are much more attractive now.
>freemium cooldown garbage
Fuck outta here with that shit.
Are you stupid? Everyone is aware of how the guns work, therefore everyone would pick Green every single time because it's objectively the best choice. l2meta
>what is prisoner's dilemma
Not applicable because the game is constantly being repeated.
So this is just prisoner's dilemma rehashed with more complicated bullshit?
With completely different people each time, retard.
Yes.
DING DING DING
WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER
>With completely different people each time, retard.
And eventually you get to a point where everyone has played the game and figured out what that user said. Sure you may get a few matches where you have a newbie, but it'l be a non-issue.
Do tell how your knowledge based off the Prisoner's Dilemma matters if only you know you have experienced it with your new team and unable to communicate with them?
Except if Red becomes meta, green will always be unable to be meta regardless if All Green > All Red/3 Red 1 Blue
That user was correct in saying the prisoner's dilemma is inapplicable. One of the key points that make prisoner's dilemma work was that you only had one shot.
>With completely different people each time, retard.
And most likely none of them playing for the first time so they know from previous experiences what the best strategy is. Which is to choose Green.
If this was a real game, you would see nothing but Green in less than a day.
>purple gun got nurfed
YOU CAN'T UNDO ALL THE MATCHES I ALREADY WON WITH IT HAHAHAHAHA
Are you retarded?
Pub matches means you pair up with strangers who you don't know. Why on earth would it matter that YOU know cooperating together is the best choice if THEY dont know and you cant communicate with them?
The best strategy would be red though. And since it would be unable to transition from Red to Green due to Green's mechanics, it would stay as All Red. :^)
Just stop.
>take green
>-5 damage because nobody else did
>now playing healer
Your four teammates have 25 percent chance to pick any color.
Red = Ignore RNG entirely.
Blue = 1.5625% of dealing 15 more damage than Red
Green = 6.25 of dealing 5 more damage than Red, 1.5625% of dealing 20 more damage than Red
Purple = 12.5% of dealing 100 damage.
Blue or red are the only guns any sane person would use
But you're on your team.
Green can only become meta if it hits the point where you're extremely likely to get all green. That's really hard to happen because there's only a small chance you can get all green out of all the choices, and if you don't you probably lose. It would take take over 50% of people playing green exclusively, and people are disinvcentivized to play green because you lose more than 50% of the time.
The only way to to push it over would to communicate outside the game. Rent fucking banner ads that say PICK GREEN YOU FUCKS.
>ugh i don't have any counterarguments so just stop arguing with me
I think the big problem here is that a team full of green would have more DPS than any other option, regardless of enemy team makeup. Four green guns would mean everyone on a team has 300 dps each, which is only matched either by a purple (which can only match it if there's one), or a blue buffed by red guns (which can only match it if there's one).
The way green is written, it seems to count itself. Is it's base damage actually 55?
...
yes
If it didn't count itself, anything but 4 green would be even more garbage.
1 Green 3 Non-Green (40 + 15 - 15 - 15 - 15): 10 Damage
2 Green 2 Non-Green (40 + 15 + 15 - 15 - 15): 40 Damage
3 Green 1 Non-Green (40 + 15 + 15 + 15 - 15): 70 Damage
4 Green (40 + 15 + 15 + 15 + 15) = 100 Damage
98.4375% to get a worse choice than Red.
1.5625% to get a better choice than Red.
This thread is autism
Red gun:
>80 damage
>Chance of highest possible damage is 100%
Blue gun:
>20-95 damage (averge 57,5)
>Chance of highest damage is 1,5% while the chance of the lowest damage is 4,6%
>Chance of being above 80 damage is literally 1,5%
Green gun (I'm assuming your gun also counts since if it didn't the max damage would be 85 so it woould be useless):
>10-100 damage (55 averge)
>Chance of highest damage is 1,5% while chance of the lowest is 42%
>Chance of being above 80 damage is 1,5%
Purple gun:
>10-100 damage (55 averge)
>Chance of the highest damage is 12,5% while chance of the lowest is 58%
>Chance of being above 80 damage is 12,5%
So
Red gun > Purple gun > Blue gun > Green gun
Blue and Green are literally useless since you only have 1,5% to deal only 25% damage more, purple gun is also terrible since it's 12,5% for 25% damage increase which is still pretty terrible, every gun has a pretty big chance of having a damage decrease.
The only viable option is Red and the rest needs a huge buff to their damage.
There is literally no reason to take anything besides red if you're playing with randoms.
I'm planning on making a Bug Fightan' CYOA in vein to the Shrimp Fighter CYOA.
What bugs would you recommend I add, I currently have
Emperor Scorpion
Stag Beetle
Rhinoceros Beetle
Tarantula
I'm planning on making a Bug Fightan' CYOA in vein to the Shrimp Fighter CYOA.
What bugs would you recommend I add, I currently have
Emperor Scorpion
Stag Beetle
Rhinoceros Beetle
Tarantula
Better version?
There is literally zero reason to not pick green gun every time.
Shrimp Fighter CYOA for reference.
...
needs a talent tree
>4 Green Guns
G - 100 dps
G - 100 dps
G - 100 dps
G - 100 dps
Total = 400 dps
*This is assuming the bonus counts itself. Otherwise, it's 85 dps each for a total of 340 dps.
>4 Red Guns
R - 80 dps
R - 80 dps
R - 80 dps
R - 80 dps
Total = 320 dps
>1 Purple and 3 Green Guns
P - 100 dps
G - 85 dps
G - 85 dps
G - 85 dps
Total = 355 dps
*310 total dps if Green Gun bonus doesn't counter itself.
>1 Blue and 3 Red Guns
B - 95 dps
R - 80 dps
R - 80 dps
R - 80 dps
Total = 335
Green is the best choice. Even if the bonus doesn't count itself it still would be the best choice because 85 max damage is still better than Red's 80 damage.
This is stupid. Everyone is not choosing their gun by random. This is a team game so people are going to choose what's best for the team, so green is the way to go. There's no reason anyone should be choosing any other gun. Maybe in lower level games people will be choosing other guns due to not knowing what's the best gun. But in top level everyone is going to be choosing Green.
It's a team game you dipshit, it doesn't matter how much damage you do relative to the other players. The point is to maximize the damage output of the team as a whole. Presumably, so long as everyone can do basic math, green is always the best choice.
Blue always to make people mad as hell
Whip scorpion high armor low damage
Dung beetle
Speedy stick (fast eddy walking stik)
Asian giant hornet
Centipede
Millipede
You are playing with random people with no form of communication. Their choice is essentially fucking random. Since each choice has an equal likelyhood of happening, Green has a .25^3 chance of exceeding Red's DPS.
Prisoner's Dilemma is a thing for a reason you fucking mongoloids.
If you do basic fucking probability, Red is the safest option by a long shot.
>hurr durr why doesn't everyone just pick stay silent in prisoner's dilemma
PATCHED
Red wins still
>their choice is essentially fucking random
No it's not you uneducated worthless sack of shit. There is no possible downside at all to everyone picking green. It is objectively the best course of action. Even in your shitty game theory experiments it only makes sense to pick green because you can assume that the other players will also pick green.
>Implying greenfags won't gang up and team kill any other color of gun.
>hurr durr i don't understand basic probability or a prisoner's dilemma
Thanks for clarifying what we already knew.
To expand on this, the only way that the prisoner's dilemma is applicable is when all of the players cooperating is not the most favorable scenario for any single individual. But in this case, there is no scenario which is more favorable to every individual player than four green guns.
>one player doesn't pick green
>everyone now deals less damage than all red
>This means we can only make choices based on probability
False, I can assume my teammates are rational and will also pick the green gun.
>dude just pick this chance that only has 1.5% of working
the cool thing about this thread, is that some people think its a 4-way FFA deathmatch, and some people think its a co-op game
as usual, evil takes advantage of ambiguity
>I go with the full intention of making people mad so I pick blue
It's not random if everyone knows the best gun. You may be think Red is the best choice because you don't lose damage, but you're not thinking about your team at all. By picking Red, your team is loses tons of damage if they choose Green or Purple and this affects you as well since they're on your team. Also, this isn't Prisoner's Dilemma because there's an objectively best option. In Prisoner's Dilemma, either 1 person wins big and the other loses big, both people win a little, or both lose big. By everyone picking the Green Gun, everyone wins big.
It can't be a FFA because it explicitly states teams.
>You are playing with random people with no form of communication. Their choice is essentially fucking random. Since each choice has an equal likelyhood of happening
So if I add a yellow gun that does 5 damage it will still be equally likely to be picked?
One person keeps their damage no matter what, while one other person loses their damage if a person keeps their damage.
>if more than one player has a purple gun, they all get a blue gun
Why not convince a whole bunch of people to just use purple guns, then? That way, you guarantee that all players have blue guns.
Look here retard The prisoner's dilemma is a problem that deals with the incentive to betray your fellow. In this case, the only possible incentive to pick the red gun is the possibility that all three other players won't pick green guns. But the issue with that path is that you're assuming that all your teammates are rational individuals, and they are assuming the same of you, just like in the prisoner's dilemma. This eliminates the only possible incentive NOT to choose the green gun, since all four players should realize it's the best option.
*picks blue*
pshh nothin personnel kid
>assuming that all your teammates are rational individuals
This is clearly an issue though since people like OP exist.
Doesn't the existence of people who earnestly think red is the best choice because of the prisoner's dilemma and people like who will just pick wrong to fuck people over disprove the idea that everyone will pick the rational best choice?
It's a game theory experiment. In all of game theory, the natural assumption of every character involved is that all other characters are rational, unless it is otherwise stated.
>reading comprehension
What does a blue gun do? Tell me!
So redfags are correct and greenfags are incorrect.
But if everyone picks green, everyone wins. There's no scenario in prisoner's dilemma where everyone wins.
But if one person fucks with the team, picks the safe option, etc, you lose damage compared to all red.
No, because Trying to factor in variance in any form forces the problem to become a statistical one (what percentage of people would just want to fuck with their team) rather than a proper thought experiment. So even then, red isn't necessarily correct.
Did I ever tell you the story about the tangerine?
And the rational choice is to make the safest choice.
other user here
The argument is that the guns in your team won't be random
purple will probably least picked while red and green will be competing for the most picked place
It all depends on the community, how old it is and how many newcomers there are
the first weeks may so chaotic it may actually feel random but I propose after 4 weeks the amount of all green teams will rise.
In the chaotic first weeks sometimes a 4green team will from by chance and those will dominate. Both the winners and the losers will notice this and thus you increase the chances of allgreens
this game sucks anyway why can't the guns miss
>Pub Matches
THAT MEANS
TEAMS
CAN'T
FUCKING
FORM
MEANING
YOU
WILL
ALWAYS
HAVE
TO
DEAL
WITH
RANDOM
PROBABILITY
Someone would play this game??
That's why this isn't a game theory experiment. see