So is Lucio ever going to get a real nerf or is he going to be a required pick forever?

So is Lucio ever going to get a real nerf or is he going to be a required pick forever?

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Not a serious FPS, literally doesn't matter. Play whoever you want. If you get a bad round, just start a new game. Your rank is irrelevant in this game and not that impressive anyway

that has nothing to do with what I asked

They'd need to rework his abilities completely, as of right now he can only be overpowered or useless given his concept.

>blizzard balance
>blizzard balance in a class shooter

Is Junkrat really that low?

I've only ever played Overwatch casually but felt if someone (like a pro) could consistently land direct hits with his grenade launcher he'd just slaughter people

If you're good enough to consistently land shots, just play 76 who can both do it easier and at further range

Problem is he's so predictable against good players and can be easily outranged, his ultimate is also extremely easy to counter.

>consistently
>Junkrat
The only thing Junkrat can consistantly do is be unreliable. That's not bad, because he can do a great job at controlling space and softening up squishies for pharah/genji/etc, but that depends on your team. Junkrat will always be a slot machine, sometimes you go broke, sometimes you break even, and sometimes you hit jackpot
>mfw junkrat on my team dives onto the payload in overtime with a riptire ready

>that reaper usage

>Winston over Rein

What the hell happened here? Koreans?

>give a character shit range and no way to quickly close the distance
>surprise! he's shit!

dive comps, it's also why tracer and genji are used a lot. almost every first point features wintsons instead of reins now

>give another character decent distant range and amazing close range
>Give him a combo to kill over half the roster every 6 seconds
>Give him three times the health of his counter and a way to heal it all back

Just play roadhog :^)

anyone here want to duo up and play HotS for the rewards?

Winston's cooldown for bubble shield got reduced by quite a bit, meaning you can actually have a somewhat consistent shield now

you couldn't pay me to play HotS

I see a lot less Lucio these days even in diamond. A lot of people who weren't grandmasters actually favored his healing over his speed boost, and now they don't want to get close to help their team mates. They actually have to be able to get away rather than sitting back and seeing enemies come for them a mile away. Defense Lucio feels like he's been replaced by Mercy but I still see him on attack very often. This is all at the 3200 range though so fuck me.

yes i do

Rorschach#11913

Junkrat has never been good. You have to walk into his grenades to get hit and his ult can be undone by shooting at it.

Junkrat players will always bring up their gold damage when you ask them to switch, which they obtain by lobbing grenades at shields.

>I hate this videogame I won't try

>platinum players believe this

What the fuck are you even going on about

They need to add another healer, unless they want to remove the 2:2:2 bullshit and just go back to 3:2:1.

Reinhardt was the dominant tank until Orisa came along.

he's their token black, so no

>every single hero in the defense category is unviable garbage since the game came out

Torb, hanzo, mei, widow and junkrat are all underpowered and not viable and probably never will be given their core concepts

Even if his speed boost were just 10% Lucio will still be a near mandatory pick. Nothing trumps speed.
Not to mention he is also the best healer who can heal the entire team in a 30m radius at a combined rate that dwarfs the others.
Not to mention he is one of the most mobile and evasive characters with a powerful crowd control weapon.
Not to mention he has an Ultimate which is one of the best for a push/point defense/panic button.
Lucio is so overpowered in every way, it's disgusting. You'd have to change him on a fundamental level, alter his loadout, to make him not so blatantly better than the other Supports.

>Reinhardt was the dominant tank until Orisa came along.

And he still is?
What are you going on about?

Orisa is literally trash tier

>Reinhardt was the dominant tank until Orisa came along.
And he still is the dominant tank in any situation besides a dive comp. Orisa is pretty mediocre

>heal the entire team in a 30m radius
nerfed to 10m in the latest patch

>powerful crowd control weapon
it's pretty fucking weak, even with the buff

They aren't use a lot at tournament level of play, but you still see them used somewhat often in comp, even at gm level.

Orisa is absolutely awful though because she is the most selfish tank in the game.

She can't push because her shield is immobile, the pull thing is a minor nuisance on anything apart from Koth Illios Well and Route 66 1st point and you're picking between meme canister or fucking earth shatter which is a top 3 ult

I highly doubt there is a single torb player at the GM level, he's so outclassed by other damage dealers

Junkrat is great against newer players but anyone who knows how to play will not have much trouble from junkrat. He's good at depleting Reinhart's shield but other than that he's too unreliable to get anything done.

>They aren't use a lot at tournament level of play

And not viable usually means "not usuable in tournament play".

Balance should always be oriented at the top level

But you clearly notice that those heroes are a handicap even at lower levels compared to just picking the top tiers

No, because Lucio cannot be balanced. His speed boost is too good on top of everything else he does. Blizzard backed themselves into a corner with Lucio.

There is one top 500 torb, but the ingame ranked is in no way comparable with proper tournament play.

If someone is GM it doesnt mean he would go good in real tournaments, ranked online play is still way more random and less organized even at high ranks.

overbuff.com/players/pc/Fuey500-1558/heroes?mode=competitive

Unless they make another hero identical to Reinhardt he always will be, his kit is just way too useful. It's the same with Lucio, no one can do what he does and his kit is just way too useful to pass up, Blizzard keep trying to balance it but unless they make a complete change to his kit there's no way Mercy will ever be as useful as he is.

Read that as Lucario. Stop playing peecee FPS

Not him, but what you asked doesn't matter because Overwatch isn't a serious FPS.
Stuff like meta, nerfs and whatever else competitive related doesn't matter there.

Feels good to know that you can pick Reinhardt and know that he's a safe pick. He's actually really fun when you can balance offense and defense.

wtf

overbuff.com/players/pc/GATEKEEPERǶ-1935?mode=competitive
Here you go.

I agree, but it would be difficult for Blizzard to balance the game that way because it would shit on the supposedly 20 mil player-base 90% of which are diamond or below. Most players can't even aim Pharah rockets correctly to hit a stationary Torb turret. A lot of players even now complain that Sym is overpowered because she is too difficult for them to shoot at.

Why are people playing Tracer? In more or less every game I've played she has been a wasted slot.

Literally one of the best dps characters in the game but also hard to play

As long as everybody's base movespeed is slow as molasses, he will be picked.

This game is so shit honestly. Hero design like Lucio, Reinhardt, Orisa and Bastion is unforgiveable.

The ultimate abilities shouldnt even be in the game.

I think Rein might be one of the most balanced Heroes in the game.

He's good at his role but not much else, without anyone to back him up he's useless, and unlike most other tanks he can actually help the team by soaking up damage while protecting the team.

>but also hard to play
Guess that's why. Since I'm not a pro and most people who are not pro are shit, characters like Tracer and Genji are just so pointlessly easy to counter.

>Orisa and Bastion instead of Zarya and Genji

????

Lucio and Reinhardt are also not partically "overpowered" in the traditional sense. But Blizzard is just so pants-on-head fucking retarded that they made their kits and their utility so unique that most teams just cannot do without them.

Rein is balanced, the problem is Overwatch's terrible map design that make him a near requirement. As it turns out most choke points are just the perfect size for Reinhardt's shield to cover it.

Its because i think they encourage a shitty kind of playstyle. its not fun to play nor play against.

Genji is fun to play, and a good player really gets rewarded. Zarya is more on the fence. Her ult is too easy, and barriers got too short of a CD.

That's a meme.

He's just a crutch hero for shitty players. Anyone with aim will play mccree.

Cant wait for the competive scene for OW to die.

They have literally no idea what the fuck they are doing and the only people that watch it are delusional wannabes.

True enough. The ability based gameplay in general doesn't really play all that well with an FPS I don't think, since it kinda forces you to only blow your load when your team can blow theirs and it sort of puts a stop to most flanking you can do. Doesn't help that the round times are so fucking short either so there's no room at all to experiment and you always need to be pushing with your team.

Might be different in pro games though I don't know.

Genji rewards bad players too with his stupidly strong and easy ult. The 0 cooldown instant dash resets are just fucking stupid and it's near impossible to counter unless you have a Lucio or Zen ult ready. Doesn't help that he can start dashing in before his voice line has even finished, so by the time you hear it coming it's already too late.

The only way to make lucio NOT a required pick is to make another hero that gives speed boosts in a different way.

Then again, look how Orisa turned out.

>6 of the 9 least used heroes are all the """defense""" hereos
>the devs think this is alright
FUCK

>he thinks Genji is fun to play against

Orisa's playstyle isn't even anything to be upset about, she gets destroyed by flankers so easily it's not even funny. And half of getting "rewarded" as Genji is pressing E aka Genji's Reinhardt Shield.

They should just rename "Defense" to "Highly situational", which would be much more accurate. The core DPS heroes are the Offense ones (minus Sombra).

They should have made it a party game first and foremost sort of like TF2. But you gotta have that esports moolah or else it ain't worth doing these days.

Get shut down mostly without nano-blade and some sort of chain cc/def in my experience. Sure he can clear backline easy if you play against shit. Which you see alot of below 3k.

I see your point. It feels unfair if you play a squishy wihtout defensives and your team is clueless.

>Bastion was he one everyone complained about in the game's earliest days
>He's now not used at all

They will never truly nerf Lucio.

They will change him, but that speed boost will always be there.

And as long as everyone in the game moves as slow as they do, speedboost will always be required in any game that matters.

Not even sure what the point of that is.

>shoot him
>he shields
>don't shoot him
>shoot him again and now he's dead because he can't do shit
Guess I've just never fought against a really good Genji.

Data is from pro games.

>below 3k
I'm in diamond, and even there he gets 2-3 picks every time for free when he presses Q. Especially the first push when Lucio and Zen don't have time to build their ults, and Genjis builds stupidly fast if you just hit a few cross map headshots.

People already figured out Bastion was low tier even back in Open Beta, which was why he was buffed after the beta.

I stopped playing just before his big changes.

So people don't use him?

People only pick him to be cheeky in a surprise push on payload maps, and it has been that way since after the first month of launch. His design always was trash and his revamp didn't help him in any way.

Blizzard's answer to balancing is to make the actual useful but OP heroes useless instead of making the useless heroes be able to counter the good heroes making sure there is even less point in picking the same hero over and over again.

Really makes me appreciate how well balanced(at least before all the new weapons and shit) TF2 is. You can pretty much pick any class you want and it will still be useful and help the team.

Clearly.

Pyro was fucking useless forever though, don't pretend he was good at anything but spychecking

First year or so I played regularly topped the scoreboard with him, and I was generally a pretty mediocre player.

Gotta play smart as him, and not be too reliant on the flamethrower. Though I will admit he was one of the weaker classes.

TF2 actually suffers from extremely similar design flaws except for Sniper being somewhat playable. Heavy, Pyro, and Spy are all complete shit and only even useful in extreme edge cases. There's a reason that 6v6 went full Smashtard when it came to what classes got played and how.

Heavy was just pointlessly easy to fuck shit up as though, and bring along a medic and you've just won the game. Pyro was weak but still more than playable, Spy I admit I didn't play a huge amount but he was pretty damaging for the defense. A well placed backstab could quite easily fuck things up for the other team.

> There's a reason that 6v6 went full Smashtard when it came to what classes got played and how.
Maybe, but playing TF2(and Overwatch for that matter) die hard competitively is pretty retarded since neither game works well in that area.

As long as there's a best healer, that healer will always be top picked.

>tfw the dedicated healer that can only heal is the worst healer
How do you fuck things up that bad?

>no AOE unlike Lucio
>no ranged healing+CC+AOE unlike Ana
>no DPS or debuffs unlike Zen

>riptire
>they shoot it
>timer runs out
>we lose

until they had a hero with movement abilites for his team

and no sym doesnt count

nice gold shitter
>Concussion blast ontop of the payload
>immediately rip it in the middle of the crowd
>set it off immediately
>kill 4 people
>he finish off rein
>everyone was watching from respawn
>game over
I thought most of Sup Forums was at least in diamond

>tfw one game off masters but just can't get that last win

Switched over from PS4 a few months back so can't complain on how decent I've gone. People who say PS4 players will struggle to make plat on PC have no idea what they're talking about.

Never played shooters on M+K before and doubt I can go back to a controller.. dunno how I've been going all these years.

Isn't that old data?

>Anyone with aim will play mccree.
*Soldier 76 or Widowmaker

In the beta he actually had a Reinhardt shield from the front which was bullshit

I'm guessing now, after nerfs as well, people have learned the maps and learned how to flank him

Assuming this is the most recent chart in terms of character usage, what happened to Winston that he's ranked 4th and why no one ever uses McCree?

This is the most recent update

lol

Good Tracers are a fucking menace, her guns do hideous amounts of damage and when you react to her attack she's already gone. Get a hit in? She will just rewind back and continue being a supreme asshole.

But yeah, getting to that level really requires skill and bad Tracers die so fast that it's not even funny.

there is no way reaper is that low, he destroys KotH

Pro teams would just focus him before he can do any damage

Why use McCree when Soldier 76 is an option?

There is nothing Mcree can do that Soldier can't do better.

>reaper is so under used that people forget he exists

Reaper is still used in non-tournament play.

hitscans are broken compared to projectiles

Do you guys think the incoming soldier damage nerf will make a Mcree resurgence?

Slightly but not much. Soldier is picked more for his utility and versatility than just the damage.