Do you agree?

Do you agree?

Can games be art?

Which games do you consider as art?

Considering art is supposed to be just something created for the purpose of invoking emotion or thought (which is extremely vague), yes.

Clustertruck invokes panic, maybe anger and satisfaction on completing a stage. If the creator intended it to do so rather than purely being a test of skill, then that's art.

It's really not very hard to create art. It just has to be good enough for people to keep talking about it.

Everything and anything can be art.

oh boy, semantics, my favorite

>Gone Home
>Firewatch
>"ART"

Art rhymes with fart, therefore my fart's are art

Games can be art but people title any game as art.
Games like Thief, Quake, Deus Ex, Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas, System Shock, Planescape Torment and Daggerfall are art.

is a blank canvas art? games are the canvas, high level play can be art.

Why do you care if something is called art? You published a game that you want to submit to an art museum or something?

>it's art because I like it and is Sup Forumscore and I want to appear to have good taste
fucking sheep. You'd fit in at art school actually.

>genre fiction shit
>art

Games are games by definition.
Art has been reduced to an arbitrary title, not a definition.
Nobody should care if something is or isn't art.

Games are art, they have always been art.

And I mean this in a purely factual sense, not because I feel that games just HAVE to be elevated and more mature because it's, like, 2017, people, come on.

kek what the fuck? some people think games aren't art? that makes no sense.

No. The fact people attack devs and designers and games for "agendas" and "not being for me" shows they aren't art. No one cries if I paint a satirical image of Trump. If I was to add "Brumpf" to a video game I'd probably have to hire personal security for my home, so crazy alt righters don't bomb it.

People expect video games to be consumer products like buying a washing machine or a fridge. It needs to appeal to you because it's being sold.

Meanwhile a specific painting may not appeal to you at all but generally people won't demand the artist change it. They just accept it as art they do not care for. Same goes for most music. Vidya isn't art due to societal outlook on vidya as a consumerist product instead of a valid form of personal expression.

I still think Okami is the prettiest game I've played

If people can be convinced to pay millions for a messy bed because it's art, then games can be art.

This.
Art isn't special and does not require expertise or skill.

Wait is he saying fuck the people who think games CAN be art or will never BE art?

If you take the original meaning of art, yeah they are already art
But if you take the midern meaning (likely the one that guy is talking about) then nope, many already tried and the result were shit ( like that shitty game where you only run and jump while you hear the narrative)

Games can only be art when they're actually trying to be games. Cinematic movies like Metal gear Solid, or Final Fantasy, or Xenoblade, or Uncharted? They will never be art because they don't understand that a video game should only have gameplay, and should actively shun cinematics at every turn.

I understand that video games are a mix of multiple mediums, but the gameplay and interaction must always come first, there is no exceptions.

>music is art
>sculptures are art
>writing is art
>dance is art

>putting them all together is art
>putting them all together and making it interactive is not art

>making the Metal Gear movie
>indie titles like Firewatch, Inside, Journey and Gone Home among his favorites

>firewatch and gone home

Daily reminder that gaming being taken as """art""" is synonymous with the downfall of gaming and dark age we're currently in. Daily reminder that no one thinks of gaming as an artform more than sjws.

Trying to put strict rules is also evidence it is not art. No teacher in my painting or drawing classes ever held to some hardfast rule that cannot ever be broken. Especially not one as silly as you did.

>ITT: "Art is whatever I think is good, everything else is not art"

>Metal gear Movie
What?

Better question is who the fuck cares?

what is art?

>No teacher in my painting or drawing classes ever held to some hardfast rule that cannot ever be broken.
And look what happened to the medium as a result. People stopped making art just for the sake of contemplation, or expression. Now they do it solely for money, or to make the same tired political statement over and over again, one they might not even believe in, just for popularity and such. You have women shoving spaghetti-os in their asses, toilets with bibles and american flags in them, literally canned shit, and so on. At the end of the day you can argue all you want that "it's all valid forms of art" but what I see is a lowering of standards and a diluting of TRUE art. Yes, I'm sorry if I sound like a scotsman here, but art has taken a nosedive and is no longer what it used to be.

All of those games are really historic.
Quake was the first big online game.
Thief was and still is the best stealth game ever.
Deus Ex set the standard of choices through gameplay, making your in game decisions matter.
Fallout 1 and 2 are just great RPGs, but NV had great writing.
Planescape is considered one of the best written games ever.
Daggerfall is the most massive RPG ever.
System Shock was one of a kind, a first person shooter RPG that was very complex and fun. With a lot of asthetic.

>Kids these days

who gives a shit when a plastic crucifix in a jar of piss is considered art

Obviously games are art, but why do people care so much about a label?

Its more appropriate to say gameplay isn't art, gameplay can exhibit art, whether story or visuals or sounds, but gameplay by itself is not whats art.

Saying a game is art would be like saying a tv show about displaying painintgs, is itself art.

Also is this guy an idiot Kojima himself has stated he doesn't consider games art.

Of course, leave it to the russians to prove that

He may have shit taste, but Skull Island was pretty impressive visually, even though the actors all phoned it in.

If it's intended to be art, it is art
There are no confines to what art can be, it just has to evoke something
This has led to "modern art" and dick sculptures made of clay on walls and shit

>gone home and firewatch are among his favorites

Come on son

Planescape Torment doesn't really belong with the rest of those games. It's basically a visual novel trapped in a really bad CRPG.

>Oh boy games are finally accepted as a high artform
>I guess I don't have to patch games anymore since that rapes my artistic vision
>I mean if Lucas changing the original Star Wars is a bad thing then me changing my own artwork for the sake of an audience who just doesn't get it is pointless

Here's a better question. Why the fuck you faggots want gaming to be viewed as art? What do gamers gain from such a title? All I can see is what we have to lose.

>Movies are passive entertainment where meanings and feelings are generally spelled out for the audience
>We have massive award ceremonies that celebrate the people who did the lighting for said movie
Art.

proper lighting is fucking difficult

Fuck idiots who think anything and everything can be Art and devalue the living fuck out of the term, then wonder why "Art" majors are absolutely worthless and not wanted.

All video games are art, and should have the legal protections that entails, trying to arbitrarily define it based on your tastes accomplishes nothing.

Yes

Even a McDonalds burger is art

I'm not sure about it. I think that high level play is more like any other entertaiment rather than art.

Speedruns are very fun to watch, but that's about it.

Yes, but does it matter.
The whole "can games be art thing" just seems like the whining of a bunch of little shits that lack self-confidence or love for video games.

As if they need them to be considered art for them to feel validated in some way.

I adore videos games
Shit like SMAC really shaped me and expanded by mind when I was a little kid, with its writing and mechanics, and yet shit like Dota or Gigantic is just mindless fun, and that's just as good.

I grew up playing video games
I still play video games, despite being a professional earning 6 figures (like that's supposed to mean I can't play video games)
and I'll grow to be an old man telling my grand kids to get good

I dunno if it applies to Sup Forums but a lot of retards think that vidya being accepted as art will randomly start some kinda renaissance of deep narratives or some shit.

I used to work at a McDonalds. Shit barely qualifies as food, art is a far stretch since most art has a purpose beyond getting thrown out a drive-thru window to feed some fatty's face.

Who the fuck cares, art is a word with no real meaning.

No because changing or revising art is seen as being akin to raping it. In gaming we call that patching.

Unless Sup Forums hates patches now games cannot be called art.

Yes.
But there is a difference between fine art (Caravaggio, Beksinski, Joyce, etc) and a piece of media made by a committee for the express purpose of making money.

The question isn't "are games art?", because they undoubtedly are. The question is "will a game ever be considered fine art?" Most movies and music doesn't fall into fine art in my opinion.

who cares

laugh at any fucker who cares about this shit

>What is restoration

They're fucking stupid. They don't realize the flood of sjws and elitist culture in gaming is normal for art. The more gaming strives to be art the more devs will start to ignore what the public wants to see in favor of their "vision" which will be a bunch of lazy cashgrabs.

They're not wanted because it's a retarded degree of idiots that want to waste money. Anyone dedicated enough can be a self taught artist, and a great one at that.

The fact that the guy who directed Kong is the most vocal on the subject is terrible for the cause. That movie was the most artificial Hollywood mess I've seen since Avatar.

That's a good question really, I don't see anything to get by declaring games an art.
I'm going to take a swing in the dark at this one, but I think it's just a sort of rebellious backlash of sorts of people going "Nuh uh, look, our games can be held in the same standards to books and paintings", some sort of weirdcry for acceptance and at the same time going "you're not the boss" to uppercrust/art snobs/whatever.

I probably really butchered that sentence but I'm dumb so maybe I'm not even right.

>changing the way something was originally to something different
>restoring

Under that logic the Special Editions were "restoring" Star Wars. Restoring is reversing a change not making one you illiterate.

Why are movies art but games arent?
Both are creative works. Both have dozens, hundreds, thousands of people evolved with a director coordinating every decision (so both aren't a vision or work of just one man).
Both are created for commercial purposes (selling tickets or copies)

Both have good examples of the medium. (citizen kane, silent hill 2) and both have bad examples of said medium (transformers, call of duty)

Why the double standards?

>Put them all together.
>*but make sure each component is terribly made.
yeah, videogames are an art amalgam by definition, but the components are terrible.

Videogame definition is the definition of shit music for example.
>Repetitive.
>Zero experimentation.
>Sampled instruments.
>Shitty preamps.
>Always derivative, and frequently stealing melodies and riffs.

Art is subjective anything can be art

I consider some games art if you're looking at it from a gameplay aspect. I think that saying a game is art because of aspects unrelated to gameplay is misappropriation. Multiple mediums can have music, writing, cinematography, etc., but I think that the real art of each medium is what it uniquely offers. Saying that a video game is art because it has really good music is the same as saying a movie is good because it has really good music. It feels like it cheapens the word art because it's doing what other mediums can do instead of using the unique strength provided by its medium.

why is something being "art" held to such a high pedigree when it doesnt actually mean anything

the witness

Can games be art? Yes.
Are games art? No.

>thousands of people evolved

I meant to say "involved", but I'm a fucking retard, always making others feel miserable due to by shit actions.

>Artwork acquires flaws
>Restore it
>Game has flaws
>Revise it

Games that try to emulate movies are not and can not be art.
Video games' artistic merit should come from their gameplay, and how it ties the experience together.

I believe it has to do with some kind of sperg defense.

>user, why do you still play video games?
>Because it's art

Bad art is art too, though. Quality is not a factor in this, and you know it.

Historic doesn't equal artistic importance.

Nier Automata proves games can be art

Bioshock Infinite is ART

Bad art

This is retarded. videogames may be canvases, but they are not blank. And since every painting is effectively a canvas which is not blank, your metaphor falls apart.

and yes, a blank canvas is art going by what the "authorities" on art consider art.

Silent hill 2

Explain

>turn on Kong
>it ain't me starts playing

movies are not art to begin with.

I never said that videogames aren't art, I just said they're made of shitty components.

They'll never be worth anything as an artform. That's okay though.

Go look up the definition of art in the dictionary, video games fall under that definition.

deceased movie critic cancer man disagrees with you

Ending E could only be done as a video game and invokes this amazing feeling thats breaks the 4th wall. Try playing it yourself Im sure you agree its a unique experience that ascend the medium to art

Because when you revise a movie ruin it. When you revise a game you patch it.

It used to be unthinkably taboo to remake a film without a good reason. Now that the taboo is gone it's all Hollywood does. Think of it this way, if games and movies are both art patching a game becomes no different from changing the guns in ET into walkie talkies. These days most AAA games are rushed out the door as unplayable buggy messes, imagine how much worse it would be if the entire industry smuggly decried all patches as raping their vision. They would have everything to gain and the gaming media is already pushing in this direction valuing social relevance and politics over gameplay.

One is the natural degradation of whatever material the art is made of.
The other is the incompetence of the developer.
Restoring the former to be closer to how it was originally is not the same as changing the latter to be filled with less mistakes.

>Plays like shit.
>Terrible dialogue and VA.
>Story is standard B-movie ghost story shit.
>Great creature designs.
>Music is simple, repetitive, and shitty.
i hope you're trolling

>build a toilet
>take a shit in the toilet
>flush

wow, they never could have been done in a movie. Toilets are now art.

I played the game through and thought it was mediocre at best.
Ending E while cool didn't blow my mind at all, it disappointed me because the story decided to break the 4th wall instead of writing an actually interesting ending.

A game is not a game until someone plays it.
A game with no player is literally just a canvas.

Games can be art, artwork is involved in Videogames, if you draw a beautiful landscape and then put it into a videogame it's still a beautiful landscape

However the majority of faggots only care about this because
1) it's an easy way to start a retarded argument
2) it's an easy way to shill pretend game shit like gone home
3) they are idiot that think videogames should be more like movies full of drama and realism when they will always be silly like anime because they are normie who want videogames to be a completly normie hobby made only of game like last of us

A movie is not a movie until someone "plays" it.

Art is quite literally any form of creative activity that has no practical purpose other than influencing emotion.

The idea that you should separate "true art" and "not true art" in the first place is perpetuated by the same people who have the power to decide that "true art" involves shitting on canvas and the smearing it out with your pubes in the shape of brown square. And then sell it for 10 grand, 20 for the extra spicy diarrhea version.

Even outside of that bullshit, classical "true art" was mostly defined by the fact that the true artist was able to find a sponsor by demonstrating good craftsmanship. Which is what a lot of game creators already do.

Toilets are not a medium

>ACTUALLY unironically comparing a passive medium to an interactive one
Wew lad.
No, a movie is still a movie even if no one watched it, ever.
A game of football, or tetris, is not a game if it has no players.
Football with no players is just an idea, tetris with no player(s) is just a piece of software.

movies, which are primarily digital in form today, are collections of data which are meaningless until "played"

videogames, which are digital by form, are collections of data which are meaningless until "played"

it really isn't. this conversation might be too esoteric to have properly on Sup Forums, but events happen in our universe. if they're recorded, they can become movies in the proper context.
like that time the trillionaire violinist played in the new york subway. people treated him like an annoying faggot because he was one, not the superstar he is in another context
the point is something can be recorded, but it isn't a movie until its distributed, labeled, and enjoyed as one

A movie can be played as background noise, it requires zero participation from the viewer.
A videogame does not play itself, and if it does, it's not a video game.

Yeah except during art restoration they restore the flaws too idiot. In art flaws are subjective, as far as gaming fuctionality is concerned gaming's flaws are objective. You can disagree on whether or not a game is fun but both can agree if you fall through the floor into infinite oblivion every 10 steps and that's not supposed to happen it's a flaw.

The Mona Lisa's background doesn't line up in a sensible way, that probably constitutes a flaw. I don't see the ones charged with maintain the piece brushing itbaway and painting over it do you? They keep it flaws and all. Do the same in gaming and you're a negligent developer.