How did kojima go from this, quite possibly the strongest trilogy of games ever...

How did kojima go from this, quite possibly the strongest trilogy of games ever, to heavily flawed games like MGS4 and peace walker?

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Fanbase wouldnt fuck off and let him end it.

Plus the series printed $$$$ so he was definitely coerced into making more.

you are either underage or got into the mgs very late. basically, before 4 came out the fans begged kojimbo to answer all the shit that was left unanswered in 1-3. they wanted kojimbo to make more mgs even though he himself said 3 would be the last one. so dont blame kojimbo blame the rabid fans

Fatigue.

>How did kojima go from this, quite possibly the strongest trilogy of games ever
Deluded. MGS2 was the game that killed the franchise.

3 is my favorite
4 is great
V was enjoyable but not as a properly ridiculous metalgear game

>mgs2 ends in cliffhanger
>expect people not to want a resolution

> before 4 came out the fans begged kojimbo to answer all the shit that was left unanswered in 1-3.
Like what?

>so dont blame kojimbo blame the rabid fans
fuck that. kojima could've easily said no if it was really a big deal, but he wanted easy money. it's not like he was the one working overtime programming the game, instead he was jerking it to the models they hired for the bosses

there's a ps2 version of mgs1?!

>things cant end with a vague ending?

MGS2 only ends on a cliffhanger if you're a moron. The actual story of MGS2 (raiden dealing with his past and moving on) is completely resolved.

intentionally leaving things unexplained =/= cliffhanger, and kojima having to somehow make sense of stuff that's intentionally designed to not fully make sense lead to a clusterfuck of shit in MGS4

To subvert expectations. Death Stranding will be the real MGS4.

Only real answer. Even though MGS2 was still pretty good, it took the story to such an absurd direction that made MGS3 a prequel just because they couldn't figure out how to continue the story from there.

Oh, I don't know....maybe.......

I don't understand what you're getting at.

>heavily flawed
>MGS4 and Peace Walker

off yourself my man. Don't mention these while excusing TPP.

He doesn´t have any Co-writers that keep him from going full-retard anymore

yeah 2 really did fuck a lot of things up

everything left open by mgs2

how was it that ocelot was being control by liquid snakes?

who was lalilulelo?

what happened to olga child?

who were the patriots?

and so on later game started to answer these question and give out newers ones.

>MGS3 a prequel just because they couldn't figure out how to continue the story from there.
That's not the case at all. MGS2 is a conclusive ending that's intentionally open ended in some parts because raiden managed to break from the cycle that ruined all the snakes. MGS3 was always going to be a prequel

We didn't know who the Patriots were. MGS2 or 3 would have been really sorry ways to end the series no matter how good they might on their own desu.

These 3 games are great.
I bought this edition because it had reprints of MGS1 and was cheaper on ebay than loose copies of the original print run. Nice ps2 case as well.

Now I have 7 copies of MGS3 over ps2,ps3, and vita

And 3 copies of 4, I liked 4.


5 would be best if it had multiple areas with sizes of about ground zeroes and was more linear, course it needed to be finished as well but where it stands lets just stay I at least replayed MGS4 a few times.

not at the time it wasn't you dumb nigger you have to be there to really get why fans at the time went wtf

unless you got into the series later on you would not understand why people wanted sequel to answer shit left open by mgs2

aiueo is just the vowels, it's a word twist pun, just like basu gasu baku hatsu.

do you agree with this question: in terms of gameplay & game mechanics, Kojima is an unparalleled genius, but as a writer and storyteller, he's trash

The only MGS game I've played is the HD remake of 2. I rented it, played it up until the point when the vampire guy showed up, then sent it back because I just couldn't get into it. Having to sit through 5 minutes of hammy exposition for every one minute of gameplay wore me down.

Would I have enjoyed the game more had I played it as a kid when it came out like everyone else did, or should I have started off with the first one to wean myself into it?

there's a post credits conversation that creates a new loose end and is basically the definition of a cliffhanger. You can say that MGS2 resolved everything important and doesn't need a follow up, but it's false to claim it doesn't have a cliffhanger ending

kojima working by himself he's pretty trash have someone on the side helping him and he's good

kinda like george lucas when he had people capable of telling lucas well that might not be a good idea

same thing with kojima

though kojima was already tired of the franchise by number 3 he did 4 out of fans and konami forcing him to do it

also fan death threats as well that 2

I doubt that was originally intended to be a clue to the Patriots' identity. Most likely it was just a throwaway reference to MGS2.

>how was it that ocelot was being control by liquid snakes?
ghost arm. which was then set up by MGS3 showing that ocelots dad was a guy that talked to ghosts.

>who was lalilulelo?
a concept that makes sense to japanese people but can't really be translated in a way that makes complete sense

>what happened to olga child?
who gives a shit?

>who were the patriots?
AI stand in for the fake news problem we're facing in our modern day. then MGS3 has some vauge hints that zero and pals and/or the wisemans committee set that up. What exactly the patriots are doesn't matter to the actual plot and is intentionally ambiguous.

MGS2 literally ends with snake talking to the player about how he should look past the words and the pictures and focus on the real meaning, the only way it could be more obvious that some parts of it were just thematic and not stuff you're supposed to take literally is if kojima himself had a voice over at the end.

MGS2 and 3 are both perfect endings. MGS2 has someone finally breaking free of the cycles of war that dominate basically every other character in the series and the graveyard/eva monologue perfectly set up big boss as becoming who he is in later games without a bunch of retarded prequels to rub it in.

>you have to be there to really get why fans at the time went wtf
because people are fucking stupid, yes. Something that doesn't do MGS2 any favors is that it was literally ahead of it's time with all it's talks about internet news and censorship when majority of people in america didn't even consider such things back in 2002 the way they do today.

"they all died over 100 years ago" is just setup for MGS3 and the wisemans committee. It's like saying MGS1 ends on a cliffhanger because of the phone call over the credits even though snake and meryl driving into the sunset while talking about how they're going to enjoy life is a super conclusive ending

Does V carry the micro management element from Peace Walker? Cuz I didn't like that shit.

It was Kojima's fault completely.

Daily reminder that NONE of this was true. Kojima has always stated he enjoyed making MGS games.

mgs3 was shit, mgs4 was better

mgs1 was the best though, of course

The fact that MGS3 lets you know Sigint joined ARPA (or was it founded?) is a dead giveaway that he already had the Patriots' identity set in stone by then.
>mgs3 was shit
worst post

Actually, no. Even the intentional killing of the DARPA Chief in MGS in addition to Campbell mentioning "them" suggests it too. And if you're wondering, no I do not believe he had every last plot point mapped out in advance.

>main antagonist is a frail old man whose name is Hot Coldman

jej'd

>"Metal Gear Solid 3 is the final chapter in the Metal Gear Solid series" - Hideo Kojima
>Hideo: (Laugh) I want to do something totally different, but I've been saying this forever! I said that right after MGS, too.
>"I really think that Metal Gear has to live on in some form," [Kojima] confesses. "But as I said at the end of Metal Gear Solid, I really think it is time for me to hand the director role over to someone else. I might do the initial planning for the next game but not much more than that."
>"This fourth [Metal Gear Solid] is going to be the final one for me and Shinkawa," stated Kojima, revealing that the series' art designer, Youji Shinkawa, will be exiting with him. "There are other things that [we] want to create."
>That's why as a game, and as a saga, MGS4 is the complete wrap up.PR-wise, I really don't want to say that this the final game or this is the wrap up, but if I don't say it, people will make me create MGS again! (laughs) So I have to say, 'Die, Snake,' and really end it so I can move on to something else! (laughs) Actually, it's a game, so even if Snake dies, the game can live on. We have to kill him at a certain point.
hmmmm

Seeing his "Reveal" in the Playstation E3 last year and being so damn smug about it without having any actual game to show pissed me off the most.

I doubt he has good games left in him, yet everyone else still praises him as a god, even though MGS4 , PW and V were all pretty shit.

4 and PW were great.

Kojima had misses before those two. Like Ac!d

and yet he forced himself into peace walker when he was initially going to be hands off approach and not really do anything

kojima is either full of shit or has some major ego issues and refuses to let anyone but him make mgs

>The fact that MGS3 lets you know Sigint joined ARPA (or was it founded?) is a dead giveaway that he already had the Patriots' identity set in stone by then.
But MGS3 also contradicts MGS4 by establishing at the end that the Philosophers was founded by the U.S. branch of the Patriots. They event went as far as to make that a plot point in Portable Ops when Ocelot murders Not-McCone.

>"Metal Gear Solid 3 is the final chapter in the Metal Gear Solid series" - Hideo Kojima
He said the same thing about MGS1 and 2 too.

>kojima is either full of shit or has some major ego issues and refuses to let anyone but him make MGS
sounds about right. He was probably attached to it, so unless he was the one working on it, he wanted no one to touch the series

Acid wasn't him
Acid 2 was amazing fuck you

Yeah, but who gives a shit about Portable Ops? It's virtually non-canon. Also I have no recollection of them saying " the Philosophers was founded by the U.S. branch of the Patriots." More like the opposite, really.

>Yeah, but who gives a shit about Portable Ops? It's virtually non-canon
because kojima got mad someone made metal gear that wasn't him, yes.

it's a better game than peace walker in every way besides production values and anime horseshit

>Yeah, but who gives a shit about Portable Ops? It's virtually non-canon.
It's basically the FOXHOUND origin story and shows how Big Boss met Campbell and Frank.

>Also I have no recollection of them saying " the Philosophers was founded by the U.S. branch of the Patriots." More like the opposite, really.
It's in the ending timeline
youtu.be/Kp0uDRZI_pg?t=397

portable ops is weird, i dont think kojima ever outright say it wasnt canon. some of it is and some of it isnt, i guess in a way its "semi canon" if that makes any sense.

The script was written by some novelist

>It's basically the FOXHOUND origin story and shows how Big Boss met Campbell and Frank.
This is true, but I still barely remember a thing about it.
>It's in the ending timeline
"The United States accumulates the remainder of the Legacy. The U.S. branch of the 'Philosophers' changes its name to the 'Patriots'." Nothing looks out of place here.
I know it's canon, but said "virtually" because it's just barely referenced anywhere else in the following entries.

And it was better than anything Kojima ever wrote.

>"The United States accumulates the remainder of the Legacy. The U.S. branch of the 'Philosophers' changes its name to the 'Patriots'." Nothing looks out of place here.
Whoops! Didn't realize my typo. But yeah, I meant the other way around.

>People are too fucking stupid to come to their own conclusions about the ending

Soooo is this still a retcon then...?

Well it is, since Zero was never part of the U.S. Philosopher.

Hoo boy, speaking Japanese would be awfully useful right about now... Doesn't Portable Ops also feature the last Philosophers getting killed off and a huge finger pointed at both Ocelot and Zero? Can't remember, haven't gone through it in like 8 years.

MGS 1-3 is basically perfect as far as game trilogies go. Each game is very distinct from eachother in mechanics, setting and story/themes to the point that all of them have arguments for being "the best one"

the fact that you can play them in basically any order and not feel like you're missing something is quite impressive

>Doesn't Portable Ops also feature the last Philosophers getting killed off and a huge finger pointed at both Ocelot and Zero?
The person who gets killed off at the end of MPO was the DCI, the person Snake refuses to shake hands with at the end of MGS3.

Gene makes reference to a "brilliant strategist" being the one who manipulate the events of Operation Snake Eater. A lot of people think it's a reference to Zero (or even Hot Coldman), but when Gene mentions him it shows a close-up of Ocelot from a later cutscene. It's all pretty ambiguous, since Kojima pretty much ignores it in his later games.

>Meme gear solid
>perfect trilogy

18+ kiddo

OH SHIT Sup Forums WE GOT OURSELVES A BADASS HERE >The person who gets killed off at the end of MPO was the DCI
Yes, precisely what I meant about "Philosophers getting killed off".

Neck yourself. It'll raise the global IQ just a tiny bit.

I agree, but any one who is under 18 is too young to have played them when they came out, and you would have had to have played them as a kid when they were new, then never played them again since, to consider them perfect. They haven't aged well.

2 only makes sense in the context of 1 and I'm not sure anyone who hasn't played the first one could enjoy it beyond some of the gameplay. Even among fans it's very divisive, so it's not a game that's going to get you into the series

MGS1 is an excellent game that holds up today and you'll probably enjoy it if you can stand the handful of exposition dumps Kojima throws in. It avoids 2's worst excesses and has a very grounded story by MGS standards

The fact that 70% of the plot is MGS1 references is an actual plot point, so the game is boring line impossible to "get" without playing mgs1

I might give the first one a try some day. I started with 2 because I only had an Xbox 360 at the time, and for god knows what reason they didn't want to remake MGS1 when they remade the others.

Kojima isn't a programmer, you underage faggot.

>let him end it
>with that hideous, plot-hole ridden ending of MGS2 that answered absolutely ZERO questions tied nothing up

But Kunio Takabe was the lead programmer in all the mainline MGS games.

I don't even fully agree, but this user gets it.

it's not like he had anything in mind to fill those plot-holes with.

Is this a meme?
MGS2 is amazing, but ONLY with the context of having played MGS1 first, if not MG1 and 2 as well.
Otherwise it comes off as a disjointed confusing mess.
1 and 3 work standalone, sure.

MGS2 was designed to be standalone. All the MGS1 throwbacks are enhanced by playing other games, but not mandatory.

The actual story of MGS2 is raiden dealing with his past, everything else is just a way for kojima to talk about themes and have some fun. There's a reason you can skip tanker entirely, because kojima knew lots of people were going to start with MGS2 because it was the first PS2 release and thus made a new main character.

I'm in the middle of my first Portable Ops run, and yeah, besides production values and some design traits I find PO a pretty solid game. In fact I tought I wouldn't like it as much a AC!D (it was a take of fresh air and pretty much a fan letter love to the saga) but yeah, I'm loving it. I think the plot is really good and the FOX unit is FOXHOUND tier troupe of crazy bosses in terms of characterization. I still don't get the hate towards the game.

>why did it get bad after 3
The yakuza killed Fukushima.

I SUMMON CARAMEL BACK FROM POSTING ON /GIF/ PORN THREADS REPLYING TO PEOPLE POSTING WEBMS WHERE THE PORNSTAR HAS 'KOJIMA STYLE' GLASSES

portable ops is better than peace walker because you actually have a reason to recruit other soliders instead of shoving them in a box and forgetting about them for money

>I'm no hero. Never was, never will be
>that guitar riff

are you retarded? it's very obvious you didn't play them in the correct order, because if you had you'd understand

No, I did. If you don't play MGS1 MGS2 plant chapter still works just fine. Can you point out something that doesn't?

>quite possibly the strongest trilogy of games ever

It isn't there have been better trilogies.

Only the JP and PAL versions of MGS2 allowed you to skip the Tanker chapter. That option wasn't in the U.S. version.

you can skip it in substance too

MGS3 was supposed to be a PS3 launch title, but they were confident they could get it made early. Once MGS4 began production Sony invested a ton of money into it and demanded it be a launch title, causing the finished product to be rushed.

MGS5 was made during the years where Konami's upper management went full retard.

The opinions on MGS2 on the internet made me realize why most developers usually play it safe with their sequels even if they change a lot of gameplay elements in their games.

Literally everything is resolved in MGS2's ending.

Raider becomes his own man and Snake goes off to stop Ocelot and save Olga's child.

What happens to Snake is irrelevant because it's no longer in the player's hands.

literally the entire fucking game, you autist. the game plays with people's expectations of playing as snake. the entire plant chapter is basically a retread of what happened at shadow moses, and the player is left feeling very confused and angry. Solid Snake Simulation and all that, which then evolves into the Selection for Societal Sanity and how much of a bitch the player is for believing kojima's ruse- he's taught not to trust hype, the media, etc.

do you simply not understand 'meta', user?

>ocelot is possessed by liquid
>makes sense since he's the son of a spiritual medium
>lol nope he was just crazy all along

What were they thinking with MSG4?

Until 2015 that upper management included Kojima.

>MGS3 was supposed to be a PS3 launch title, but they were confident they could get it made early.
It was more like the PS3 was still a few years off in 2001 and they couldn't afford to dally around doing nothing. I doubt Sony even had PS3 SDKs made yet.

>Once MGS4 began production Sony invested a ton of money into it and demanded it be a launch title, causing the finished product to be rushed.
Except MGS4 wasn't even released until two years after the PS3 was launched.

Kojima barely had that much of an influence in the company outside what his own Kojima Productions division did.

Except all of this is secondary to the ACTUAL plot of MGS2 (raiden coming to grips with his child soldier past and deciding to fight for himself instead of doing what he's told his whole life, then fucking his annoying girlfriend as someone that's broken from the cycle of warfare all 4 snakes got trapped in)

If you don't play MGS1 first then you won't get all the references to it in the plant chapter because, get this, you didn't fucking play MGS1. It still works on in-universe level because solidus and ocelot explain the concept to raiden/the player. You'll get less/something different from it, but the only thing that makes MGS2 incoherant is it's kind of shitty english translation and the fact that a lot of the subtext/messages about media and the internet weren't really things people thought about back in 2002.

Again, if SSS was the KEY point of mgs2 and not just a side idea he came up with, it would've A: been mandatory and tanker wouldn't be skipable and B: it would've been mentioned in the MGS grand game plan

I still have to play PW, but from I heard I'm just play it as a animu Che Guevara simulator and I wont care too much about the recruiting stuff.(I love to play as random soldiers/officials/key characters, and watch how some codec calls change, immersive as fuck)
to this day PO is still the ultimate recruiting soldier experience any MG has, at least to me.

Getting full control of one of the company's biggest divisions is a duck load of power

Save this post for when kojima still works at konami

you both get the point guys.
The game is made with the meta commentary on mind, of course, but it also work as an individual piece of media by it's own.Both of you are right

no fucking way

>ACTUAL plot
> It still works on in-universe level
>if SSS was the KEY point
see, you're an idiot. the META plot goes beyond the canon explanation of the events, which is a huge reason people hate MGS4. kojima wanted mgs2 to be the last one. raiden's past is part of the in-game plot, sure, but that's not what makes MGS2 stand out artistically.

>then fucking his annoying girlfriend
is she really his girlfriend? how real is she? take away all of the boring explanations of MGS4, and just think about rose. She was, after all, given the task to get together with Raiden. Her saying she's pregnant, how honest is that? Her appearing at the end, who is that? It makes no sense for her to be there. In the end, all women are interested only in themselves, so how can you know what Raiden really means to her?

Just like MGS1 tells the player "You enjoy the killing", so does MGS2, by making Raiden the only one from the child soldiers who completely blocked out his past and wasn't tormented by it. Because it's fun for the player to kill bad guys. It was fun to be Snake. You saw the fucking amazing trailers, you wanted to be Snake again, but with better graphics, better tech, a new interesting story, a new adventure. The game gave you that in Tanker, and then took it all away in Plant, a big 'fuck you' as part of Kojima's typical "pacifist" message.

You cannot experience MGS2 by paying attention only to the in-universe plot, for that would be an insult to the game itself, to Kojima and to art in general. Vidya is low-brow anyway, but so is your brain. fuck off

Wow, I didn't know you types still existed.

Rose is real, 100%. She was part of the mission staff but gets switched out with the AI rose right before arsenal gear. There's multiple codec calls that clarify this. You'll probably respond with some horseshit about how I can't believe everything I read but at that point one of the key points of MGS2 is that nobody actually directly lies to raiden, they just don't tell him all the info.

The ending meeting with rose feels surreal because 9/11 required them to change some stuff around at the last minute so people didn't get triggered.

yeah fucking way dude. thread is still live too

> It was fun to be Snake. You saw the fucking amazing trailers, you wanted to be Snake again, but with better graphics, better tech, a new interesting story, a new adventure. The game gave you that in Tanker, and then took it all away in Plant, a big 'fuck you' as part of Kojima's typical "pacifist" message.

Except you can skip tanker entirely in every version of MGS2 besides the original US release. The entire reason for the character switch was because kojima realized lots of people would start the series here due to the console shift and made a new main character so they wouldn't feel locked out of the loop by constant references to the first game (that actually matter to the plot, like the original idea for a game about philantrophy taking down the third world metal gears that happened because rex data was leaked).

Large amounts of staff interviews and the MGS2 grand game plan spell this out very clearly. The commentary about sequels and shit was something kojima came up with after he decided on making a new main character, not the goal all along. I understand you've built up this headcanon on snakesoup or whatever other pseudo-intellectual bunker you spawned from, but it's not quite how you thought it was

peace walker is good though desu

and 4 gets alot of flak but the gameplay was solid