Now that the dust actually has settled, can we all agree that these were mediocre entries at best?

Now that the dust actually has settled, can we all agree that these were mediocre entries at best?

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They did good, but they also had far more negatives than positives. The linearity, the balance still being fucked from Gen 6, the oversaturation of legendaries, the lack of new Pokemon...

I understand that Pokemon has become so bloated that it's hard to make a new game and also balance it and make the world interesting. The only real solution, other than just continual budget and size bloat, is to have a universe reset. Start from scratch. Create 150 new Pokemon. Hell, set it on a different planet if you have to. Just do something, because Pokemon is dying a slow and painful death.

No, they were fucking awful.

I had a lot of fun with them just wished their was more post game

Or just do what BW did and only give you new pokemon until after the elite 4. I found that to be greatly refreshing.

>the oversaturation of legendaries
This itself was less of a problem than them just being random battles in the grass. How fucking lazy. Hell, the second-last ultra beast is in a room that looks like they clearly intended to have it standing in the centre, but then they got lazy and didn't bother.

They are my least favorite in the main series.

I can't believe how high the review scores for them are. Apparently changing the 8 Gym leaders out was enough to trick them into thinking it was a "Bold New Take."

>their

Whoops *there

Eh, I feel like it's more of a quality over quantity thing. There was barely any post-game stuff, but whatever was there was simply amazing. I can't think of anything that can stack up to the Ultra Beasts and its surrounding lore.

Most people admit they're mediocre, it's only a few deluded fanboys who are just performing mental gymnastics because they think they have to love every new thing Game Freak shits out in order to counter-act all the genwunners on Facebook gushing over the older games.

I feel like I'm the only one that finds all of the games enjoyable. Of course they have their flaws and some are better than others, but I can't think of one game that I didn't enjoy playing through the first time.

Are you joking or have you never played another Pokemon game before? The Ultra Beast hunt was shit, they just made them random encounters because they were too lazy to create overworld models or design new areas for them to reside in. OR/AS had a better post-game legendary hunt than Sun/Moon.

Seriously, the praise the trials got was fucking ridiculous.
>Guys you don't have gyms anymore now you have trials they're totally different
>Game comes out
>Trials just have you doing a short puzzle and then fighting a boss
They're gyms in everything but name and are the simplest gyms have ever been.

Mediocre but it sure isn't Sonic '06 tier like this one faggot keeps claiming.

Oh man a pokemon game is mediocre.

Stop the presses. It's only been happening for a decade plus.

I said the Ultra Beasts and its surround lore, user. The hunt itself was just a means to an end.

Just because people are critical of a game, it doesn't mean they didn't enjoy it. People are frustrated because the games could be a lot better if Game Freak weren't so incompetent.

What lore? That they came from another dimension? Deoxys already did the extra-terrestrial Pokemon thing.

Like all Pokemon games since G/S/C, they were fun, but not anything revolutionary.
The only thing that could save Pokemon in my opinion would be a proper RPG reboot (not remake).
Go back to Gen 1. 150 monsters. None of this megaevolution stuff. When Pokemon level up, the trainer chooses what to invest in. Not a flat +1 to all stats. You could have a trainer focusing on rock and ground type Pokemon heavily investing in defense stats, or lightning and fire focusing on attack, or completely shift things up and do like a grass type special defense setup.
Also let it work as an rpg for the player. Have branching victory conditions. Let me choose to join team rocket and become an in-game billionaire. Let me participate in the fashion shows and become the greatest that way. But also keep the gyms, and let me do it the traditional way.
I think something else that would be cool is more depth to the gym system. Like, if you beat the gym leader more possibilities open up in the city. And when you become Champion you actually have to be able to defend your title in PvP situations or something.
I don't know, tons could be done to make it more mature and entertaining, but I'm sure Nintendo will keep playing it safe and printing off money the old fashioned way.

>There was barely any post-game stuff, but whatever was there was simply amazing. I can't think of anything that can stack up to the Ultra Beasts and its surrounding lore.
What the fuck is wrong with you? The UBs were just you getting told a few lines about them by the detective guy and then wandering off to find them in the grass. Then the last one has no lore whatsoever, just an offhand mention and then you find him in the grass in a cave and no one gives a shit. And what was there besides? The battle tree which has fuck all trainers compared to BW2's world tournament, and a battle with Red/Blue that's way easier than the Champion was? Get real, S&M's post-game was a joke. There was fuck all in it and everything that was in it had been done better before.

Why not make a completely different game if you're going to completely overhaul the series? Why do those things have to be in a Pokemon game when they could be in another game that could not have arbritrary restrictions? Game Freak have spent 20 years tweaking the current Pokemon battle system, they're not going to abandon it.

They were good and were a hundred times better than anything from gen 6.

You have a point there.
I agree, but some people will say otherwise.

I just don't understand why the post game isn't as fleshed out as it once was. Emerald, Platinum, and HGSS were great and Black and White 2 were fine too why doesn't GF do something like that again?

Also I've always found the leveling up mechanics weird when it comes to movesets.
Like if you're supposed to be evolving, it only makes since that your moves evolve as well.
Instead of randomly learning how to giga drain with no previous experience in draining at lv. 40, pokemon should have to progress in their moves.
go from tail whip to vine whip to razor leaf, and so on.

Sun and Moon are the worst games.

Leveling up movesets in general are weird, e.g, Lotad gets Energy Ball which is a pretty strong Grass Type move at around level 50(?) but basically pretty late. It evolves into Lombre at level 14, but it can't learn Energy Ball by level up anymore, just the Lotad can get it naturally but you have to stop it from evolving for so long.

Effort. Can you imagine Game Freak bothering to remake all of these characters with S&M's new model standard?

Swap BW with Platinum and your bizarre colour chart would be perfect.

Eh, I liked the setting -- Hawaii is a genuinely cool place. But there wasn't particularly enough of it. Especially that pathetic fucking endgame zone. Jesus Christ was it bad.

I know which faggot you're talking about, but I'm not him. And he annoys me too because I was the one who originally wrote pic related and he keeps using the cap to shitpost with. You can identify him though because he always uses the same filename.

See this is why I wouldn't mind getting Stars or whatever game they are making this year, I wouldn't mind waiting until Q4 2018 if it means more content.

>tfw S/M was the first pokemon game I gave up playing mid way through and haven't touched since
I guess it had to happen eventually

I mean, most of that is right.

Yep. It took me a while but I feel you're right.

I enjoyed the characters, story and 'atmosphere' the more than the rest of the series.

But the routes and map layout was by far the worst. And while the story was interesting, it still felt half finished.

>Best music in any Pokemon game yet.
>Best setting.
>Best story.
>Best characters.
>No HMs.
>Real actual overworld models instead of chibi deforms.

There were a lot of good things about them. Well worth a single playthrough, but the game's are ultimately crippled by their embarrassing lack of challenge.

Lol I knew this by the middle of the game but Sup Forums and /vp/ were so enthralled by a game that wasn't as shit as X/Y and ORAS that they were hailing it as one of the strongest entries. In due time its flaws became glaring.

Same thing will happen to BotW.

>I mean, most of that is right.
Of course it is. But the other faggot reposting it with the BTFO filename just wants to rile people up rather than talk about it, which of course makes people disregard the points made in the image. That or people just say "it's all complaining that it's too easy", which is only a small part of the problem.

>Best music in any Pokemon game yet.
>Best setting.
>Best story.
>Best characters.

Worst of the series by far

>being this objectively wrong

S&M actually made me miss X&Y.

Better than Gen 1, which isn't saying much considering i think RBY are the worst in the series.

>best music

FUCK the godawful Ride music. Seriously, one of the worst themes in the series and it's everywhere

You and I both know it won't

Deoxys wasn't an Ultra Beast.

>all those shitty non skippable cutscenes that make MGS4 look good
>that trash post game
>the handholding out the ass.
jesus fuck they took the garbage of x and y to a whole new level.

I just thought having so many blatantly scrapped and unfinished areas left in the game looked really bad.
And having no way to know in-game which Zygarde cells you already got. Those are my only two big criticisms.

Name a SINGLE pokemon game with better post game than Emerald.

You know people are going to come in saying BW2

youtube.com/watch?v=io3ta9T5cHI

At least the cutscenes in MGS are fun to watch, for the most part. There's nothing fun about watching some fuck standing around motionlessly and then watching some text box appear

He might as well have been, it wouldn't change anything.

GSC and by extension HGSS.
And also this.

Are you the same retard from /vp/ who said that space is a dimension?

I was mildly amused whenever someone talks to the player about something serious or emotional and the camera then zooms in on your character's completely empty smiling face, but that was it.

Are you retarded? Deoxys is a virus that came from a meteor inside the Pokemon Universe we know.

Ultra Beasts are Pokemon that come from an entirely different universe where a Pikachu wouldn't exist.

What difference does it make that the Ultra Beasts were from a different dimension rather than being from space? The only thing that really matters was that they were not of this world.

Explain how being from a different universe had any bearing on the plot.

>when you get to the Ultra Closet

You're asking stupid silly ass questions.

Pikachu is also not an Ultra Beast.
>b-but why would it matter
Is how you sound. The story in Sun and Moon was revolved around the Ultra Wormhole that connected that universe with the normal one. That's where those beings arrived from.

Now THERE'S my reason to buy a switch.

The original post claimed that Ultra Beasts had good lore. Please explain how "coming from a wormhole" is good lore.

And speaking of Ultra Space, the small trip you had into Ultra Space was also dissapointing. Pokemon Platinum had the Distortion World, a large sprawling realm where the laws of physics were turned on their head. Ultra Space was literally a corridor. And they could have made Lusamine's final battle like a totem battle, where she would call Nihilego as back-up. But instead it was just a regular trainer battle.

>embarrassing lack of challenge
Essentially you intentionally over leveled and blame the game for it now being easy.

The games are the most challenging in the series by far, it's not the games fault you went out of your way to get you pokemon 15-30 levels higher than they should be.

>he only real solution, other than just continual budget and size bloat, is to have a universe reset.

I loved BW exactly for that reason. No Pokemon from other regions, which means that you cannot rely on the tried and true tricks and Pokemon (like early Magikarp -> Gyarados). It has an utter sense of discovery, whenever you stepped onto a route chances are you're gonna encounter something you've never seen before. 10/10 trainer design and 'Murica being the settings also help.

Sadly though they went full Kantofaggotry in Gen 6, with giving you Kanto starters for no reason, and sprinkling Kanto rehashes everywhere in Kalos.

With Gen 7 as you said, the game is utterly oversaturated. You can catch Pseudo legendary at Route 1 (Bagon) which is ridiculous. You have to make an effort to catch Gen 7 pokemon like Cutiefly while the game threw jugs and jugs of old Pokemon like Zubats, Oddishes, Caterpies at you.

>comparing 2 deluxe versions, a remake, and a sequel to the first games in a gen
You, and everyone like you that does this are literally fucking autistic and just straight up stupid.

They might be good for all I know.
But I'll never find out because I can't bring myself to get through that hideously tedious intro.

Maybe learn about each individual Ultra Beast, and learn more than just about them being from a "worm hole" and you'll understand. All the details you need are in the game. It's your fault if you lack the attention span to read the games text.

Adored:

>the new Pokemon, IMO strongest batch of designs in the series
>the music
>Team Skull
>the concept of alternate Pokemon forms

Anywhere from "alright" to "mediocre" to "outright bad":

>Everything else

>Battle Frontier
>good
Take off those goggles.

>Detective guy telling you three lines of flavour text about each beast
>Good lore
Fuck off.

The Ultra Beasts have no more more depth to them than any other Pokemon with a Pokedex entry. If you seriously think that Sun/Moon were deep then you need to play more video games or read more books.

>Implying that's all there is in the game that tells you about them
You take pills for that ADD?

3D was a mistake. I loved Pokemon and have been playing from Gen 1. There's no genwunnering as I'm never off the train, from when RBY came out when I was 7 to when BW2 came out when I was in college.

Gen 6,7 and ORAS were the only game where I didn't replay it with different configuration of team. Played it once and feels like it was meh. The 3D models feels really souless. Like it was the Gamecube Pokemon stadium game. It's not quite there yet to make the pokemon expressive as the 2D sprite. Everything feels sanitized just like the lazy anime backdrop of generic green forest they always have.

But we're not talking about other games or comparing them to anything other than other Pokemon games here.

I think they were mediocre in the same way that the core mechanics are stale and that the games are aimed toward a younger demographic than I belong to, but I think they did a lot of things right that I would like to see continued like removing HMs, alternate forms, totem Pokemon, having a more involved story. etc. I also really like the Ultra Beasts as far as letting Gamefreak go nuts with their designs.

I think the only things that I actively disliked were the Lusamine fight and the wild Pokemon selection being mostly balls. This is probably the first Pokemon game where I could not find a team I actually liked.

And the lore in Sun/Moon is no deeper than the lore in any other Pokemon game.

>gamefreak released a game on steam
>3ds is dead

maybe perhaps we will get a pokemon vidya on pc that isnt some fanmade mmo or rom hack?

People liked team skull? I guess if a lot of people never dealt with or met any wiggers it'd be fun. I just found them an annoying chore.

You sound like an apologist, they were definitely the worst.

This man knows what's up

Fuck off back to /vp/ you shill, Shit and Poo were the worst Pokemon games by far

>complaining about lack of challenge in a literal children's game

yeah me too, it became a shore instead of a fun thing to do.

I enjoyed them too user, it's customary in the pokemon fanbase to just shit on every new gen that comes out. It's always the same shit anyways, so I atleast appreciated SuMo's attempts to do something a little different, even if in the end they were token efforts at best.

Personally I liked the switch to a true 3D world, the new pokemon, the hawaii setting and the Z move mechanic.

They were good. Only game I actually beat in 2016.

This is Sup Forums though and pokemon discussion is shit here. It's mostly just gen 3/4 cocksucking and romhack shilling. You're better off making this thread on gamefaqs

i thought i'd like the set up of sun but it turns out i miss the more linear w/badges style. what gets me is why don't they switch it up like romhacks? I like prism because you start with something different and that affects the order of gyms and crap.

sun/moon didn't give us pidgeys and rattata type pokemon but they didn't give much of a variety. Plus making a different variety of pokemon show up in the different versions would encourage more trading. They already have what they need to make a good game, they just need to be less stiff about what pokemon show up and shit.

Same here, it's not everything I wanted but it was fun nonetheless

also, fuck trainers having like 3 pokemon max. i don't know why i dislike that so much

>Pokemon is dying a slow and painful death.

Nigga Pokemon is and always will be popular.

I played them after finishing the garbage-tier X/Y so it was a great experience for me.

>Create 150 new Pokemon. Hell, set it on a different planet if you have to. Just do something, because Pokemon is dying a slow and painful death.

Opinion discarded

The only thing I'd add is a proper hard mode and maybe some more post game stuff.

I also don't get why people complain about Pokemon distribution was bad. It wasn't like Gen 2 where you're stuck with shitmons until the end.

>Best music in any Pokemon game yet.
Incorrect
>Best setting
Definitely incorrect
>Best story
Incorrect
>Best characters
Incorrect
>No HMs
A step in the right direction, but it wasn't very well implemented. The entire reason HMs existed in the first place was so that there were organic blockades in the world that limited progression, allowing for a linear traversal across a non-linear map (which in turn allows the developers to handle level scaling throughout the region). The more recent Pokemon games tend to just have an NPC block your path rather than designing an interesting region that requires you to use your Pokemons' ability to traverse it. Not binding Pokemon abilities to move slots was a good thing, but the places where you needed to use Ride Pokemon abilties were so limited that they may as well have not existed (since Tauros and Charizard being the only ones with major use throughout the game). Also replacing the bike with Tauros was a stupid idea since now you have to hold a button to go full speed.
>Real actual overworld models instead of chibi deforms
That is more a fault with gen 6 rather than being a positive point for gen 7.

>Just do something, because Pokemon is dying a slow and painful death.

Pokemon is literally experiencing a 2nd Pokemania. What are you talking about?

Gameplay flaws aside, the character customization in this game was pretty good. They let you turn your trainer into a gyaru pretty easily and early on if you pick a female trainer

X and Y are 50x better than these two.

Everyone (at least on Sup Forums) enjoyed BW and BW2 at launch, particularly the latter. XY and SuMo get shit on because they deserve it, not because people are being contrarian.

first pokemon game I've played since ruby

I liked it desu

I found them boring, easy and it was annoying the quantity of free pokemon they give you through the game.
But, hey, tastes differ and I'm no one to say you're wrong.

>2nd Pokemania
It's not even close. No game will ever manage to achieve what Pokemon did in the late 90s.

The stat system you just described is pretty much how it actually works already. There are no "flat +1's" to stats, they're all determined by the base, genetic factors, and how it's trained.

Bad Pokemon games: Red/Blue/Yellow/, X/Y, Ruby/Sapphire, Pearl/Diamond

Okay Pokemon games: Gold/Silver/Crystal, Emerald, Heartgold/Soul Silver, OR/AS, Leafgreen Firered, Platinum

Good: Black/White1&2, Sun and Moon

A lot of you are either super nostalgic or just hating the latest entry as usual. The majority of pokemon games have been pretty meh. Sun and moon at least tried new things but the fact of the matter is you may as well not pick up pokemon at all unless you plan to battle after you beat the game otherwise they're sad excuses for an RPG.

IMO, XY is about on par with RS. It's pretty good, but not great. It has a lot going for it, but the annoying friends, casualization, and lack of postgame content really hurts it.

I stand by that if Z was a thing it would easily be the best pokemon game.

Platinum, HGSS, BW2