2017

>2017
>these still haven't been topped as the greatest action hack-and-slash games of all time

Will it ever happen Sup Forums?

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Ninja Gaiden 3 Razor's Edge is tougher than NGB.

>tougher
This isn't an indicator of quality.

I've only played Sigma, is it really worth it to buy an Xbox just for Black?

>02819▶
> (OP)
> Ninja Gaiden 3 Razor's Edge is toughe
Sure as hell doesnt make it better.

>t. Ninja Dog

But they were

The fuck did you do to your post?

>hack and slash
If we were talking about action games the three in this thread already were

wrong Kamiya game

What exactly don't you understand about "hack and slash"?

I dunno m8

That's not a hack and slash.
That's just Diablo. I call 'em "Diablo-likes" or "Click n' loots"

No one said anything about RPGs. Are you retarded user? Do you need the genre of discussion spelled out for you?

They're called arpgs tard

> only games where the sword is the ONLY weapon is allowed by my definition!
Then neither NGB or DMC3 fit cause they have nun-chucks and gauntlets

God Hand truly does put all other action games to shame.

GOD OR DEMON

That's a brawler though. We're talking about hack and slash.

You're retarded.

Nah, Sigma and Black are pretty even in quality. Sigma 2 and NG2 are the ones where the difficulties vary and NG2 wasn't really as good as black anyway so I'd rather play Sigma 2 with the sexier Ayane

But Bayo 2 and DMC 4 have objectively better gameplay than DMC 3. You can like 3 better, but that doesn't change the fact that it's gameplay is weaker.

What makes DMC or NG a hack n slash but not Bayo, W101, or God Hand?

You know there's more to gameplay than just your movelist?

>Witch Time required for enemies
>Enemies can break out of combos
>Wicked Weaves nerfed
>Umbran Climax horribly unbalanced
Bayo 2 is garbage.

>Bayo 2 and DMC 4
This is how you spot the newfag.

It's just about the style of the game and how it's played. I never said Bayo wasn't a hack and slash. God Hand doesn't really qualify in my opinion because it's all about hand-to-hand combat with an over the shoulder camera. W101 is just a completely different style of game altogether.

So if DMC had an over the shoulder camera and you only used Ifrit/Beowulf/Gilgamesh it would cease to be a hack n slash? I'm really not grasping the distinction.

I actually liked having to choose a style, it made encounters a little more tactical and unique, plus I'm bad at style switching mid combo.

Im hoping DMC5 has something two equippable styles at once instead of style switching, I missed DMC3s extra sty;es.

>So if DMC had an over the shoulder camera and you only used Ifrit/Beowulf/Gilgamesh it would cease to be a hack n slash

Well yeah pretty much. You do understand what the terms "hack" and "slash" mean right?

So I guess when I use the lunar staff in Ninja Gaiden I'm suddenly playing an entirely new genre of action game called "poke n whacks"?

Man, the mechanics are amazing, but the content is kind of weak to be honest.

...

Word

Yeah DMC3 is great. I love how they took all the enemies from DMC1 that actually had moves and tactics and replaced them with big training dummies that slowly telegraph one move over and over so I can do Sick Stylish Combos for youtube.

No you fucking autist because the general style of gameplay remains the same. God Hand just plain plays differently. It's more of a tactical brawler.

It's a RPG though, which puts it into an entirely different genre

Holy fuck you people are retarded.

>You do understand what the terms "hack" and "slash" mean right?
Not him, but yeah, it's
>character uses melee weapons, particularly bladed weapons
The problem is that is a completely useless distinction telling you absolutely fucking nothing about gameplay.
Imagine saying that Golden Axe and Streets of Rage are not the same genre because in one of them the characters have weapons.
Imagine saying Tekken and Soul Calibur are not the same genre because in one the characters all use weapons.
Imagine saying Shatterhand and Ninja Gaiden (NES) are not the same genre because in one of them the character uses a sword.
This is where we are.

Someone please keep feeding his autism. I wanna see how far the goal post can go

>It's more of a tactical brawler
You're just making up genres now.

No it's not you fucking idiot. God Hand is a fucking duck 'em up.

>gameplay is purely mechanics
>things like pacing, level design, enemy variety and synergy, etc. do not matter
good joke.

I see what you're saying but ultimately it's just about how the game plays. Maybe I don't know how to properly put it into words but it should be fucking obvious that God Hand and W101 are not hack-and-slash games. They play completely differently.

No. The combat and enemies are fun and engaging with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions. If you mean level design or something else than probably yeah

All of the bosses are terrible on Hard mode. Especially the demon form bosses.

Step aside amateurs best hack n slash coming through

>It's a RPG though, which puts it into an entirely different genre
Yeah, the hack and slash genre. Stuff like Diablo was hack and slash back in the day. At some point it ended up becoming the useless "beat 'em up with weapons" that it is now.

Why

>Maybe I don't know how to properly put it into words
Maybe you can't put it into words because they're the same fucking genre

A lot of the bosses just have a move that's not really feasible to consistently dodge, so you just end up having to punch punch dodge over and over again to try and preemptively dodge the move.

>I can dodge it...you're just shit!

Even Mike Kob talks about how the demon bosses are just punch punch dodge shit on hard mode.

The non-demon bosses just have other problems, mainly that none of the fun or interesting move properties/mechanics work on them so they're just boring.

>punch punch dodge
yeah the demon's were pretty shit I agree. Most other bosses/minibosses were good though minus Dr. Ion and the physic dude

Different moves work on non demon bosses though, not all of them, but most of them
It's true that for demon bosses all you can do is punch but there are maybe 4 of them

Yeah I mean, it's definitely not enough to completely sink the game. It's just a game where fighting the chaff is way more fun for me. I'd play it over any other character action game any time except shinobi.

Would I like shinobi if I liked god hand?

It's nothing like it at all. The combat isn't about doing combos since the game only has 2 moves outside of mashing attack and one of those moves doesn't even do damage.

It's more of a 3D platformer with puzzle-y combat. It's really good though except for the last boss.

>Maybe I don't know how to properly put it into words but it should be fucking obvious that God Hand and W101 are not hack-and-slash games. They play completely differently.
They are distinct within the genre, but they have the same core focus as DMC or Ninja Gaiden or Bayonetta, and share many qualities besides (division into chapters, hidden optional challenge fights, shop with moves, multiple difficulties with actual meaningful changes that make them worth playing, fights against a rival that is very similar to you, etc.), which is why they are the same genre.
Hell, a lot of people would include stuff that's even more distinct, such as Zone of the Enders. Like look at this tier list image I dug out of google images.

played 2 first, didnt care for black and the shitty open world and adventure segments. 2 is all about ball busting gameplay and mind games and dogding and chopping shit up with better graphics and environments. thats all that matters to me, 2 is the king.

>Sup Forums
clearly this list is /reddit/

It's an odd one, for sure, but I wouldn't call it puzzle-y. It has more of a score attack focus with the combat. The goal is to kill everyone quickly without taking too much time between kills.

Well in any case that image reinforces my initial statement.

>didnt care for black and the shitty open world and adventure segments
I'm not sure we played the same game.

Some of the bosses take a little figuring out to get the most points but yeah I guess puzzle-y doesn't describe the normal combat very well.

I think it emphasizes situational awareness more than other things is maybe a good way to put it.

How was 2 any less "open world" than Black?

2 has much higher highs and much lower lows than Black, I think. It's hard for me to call a winner.
In any case, fuck Sigma 2.

NG3RE
>they had to put in another difficulty with tweaked numbers to make it difficult
>putting in a recycled boss from previous titles 7 or 9 times in a challenge is their definition of difficult

you have to go back and forth, all the shooting elements. its alright the game but i think its only just redditors and neofags saying how much better black is because its harder to obtain/play and is older. 2 is like...how do i describe it. its like a 3D melee where doing anything feels immensely satisfying and attacking/weight/physics/enemy and player response/sound and so on is meticulously designed for perfect player feedback.

its my favorite game ever right there with melee and nothing has ever come close.

if their so great why havent i ever played them?

I get what you mean but I wouldn't call it "open world" necessarily. More like 3D metroidvania.

Friendly reminder to never listen to Sup Forums's opinion on action games, especially NG, most are SSS Rank shitters.

Are you retarded?

metroidvania...thats right. i hate those types of games thats why.

Are you?

I personally enjoy them, there's something satisfying to me about going back to previously explored areas and unlocking new ones. But I respect your opinion.

>3D metroidvania
user...

>
ninja gaiden was prime hack and slash... after that it all went downhill

...

>muh Black
>DmC3 baby

Tell us how DaS1 is a master piece next

2 doesn't have the great Fiend Ryu fights which is my biggest complaint after the near non existant QA

Let's see your superior taste then user.

Fuck no, you already played the superior version. Don't get suckered by decade old platform wars garbage.

This nigga knows what's up. I don't like how she looks in Sigma 2 though, she looks perfect in RE. [/spoiler}

Forgetting the majesty of the Viewtiful Joe games.

There is no point to keep pretending Sigma does not exist when it's better then Black by virtue of being the same game with better graphics and more content.

Devil May Cry 1 is superior to 3 in almost every single way but moveset variety, and that is not enough to save DmC3. If it weren't for the bosses I'd even go as far as to say that DmC3 is a mediocre game.

Oh so 2/Sigma 2 doesn't have semi-linear levels? That's a shame, it gave the game a comfy adventure feeling.

Not him but yes, the series departed from that unfortunately so the same goes for RE. You get more varied levels but you lose that old school video game comfyness.

NG and DMC mirror each other in how they developed as a series in some ways but DMC lost so much more compared to NG.

If you would include Viewtiful Joe, why not all other 2D beat 'em ups?

nah. its a more linear game and i prefer that. however, its not totally defunct of anything. there are little carved out areas, underwater areas, side rooms, bonus trial rooms etc to look out for. here you will find some sad little memoirs of dead enemies, weapons, upgrades, money and health etc.

youtube.com/watch?v=GoFbnmS9e4M

for example, at 1:20 you see a slightly deviating path with more battles and rewards. and again at 7:25. and the levels are quite long and take you to a lot of places, visually and environmentally. it still feels like a complete adventure game even if its linear.

>Devil May Cry 1 is superior to 3 in almost every single way but moveset variety, and that is not enough to save DmC3. If it weren't for the bosses I'd even go as far as to say that DmC3 is a mediocre game.
Going to need some explanation here. Prove you're not just a contrarian.

I personally like Ninja Gaiden more than DMC, I like how enemies are easily killable but still very deadly, and not just sponges that I can juggle in the air for infinity.

DMC1s only strengths are it enemies and its environments, DMC3 has far better combat, story, and replayability.

>muh retarded contrarian opinions
>muh reddit spacing
Tell us how DaS2 is a master piece next

Look, I understand it sucks that uninformed fucks bashed NGS for the wrong reasons and you took it to heart, but if you are going to defend it (which you can because NGS is almost as good as NGB) at least put up some good arguments to not look like the other retards.

I'm not even asking you to play the other games, which you probably won't anyway, just elaborate a bit more when you want to get your point across.

>the lowest tier enemy on DmC1 has a bigger moveset than the highest tier enemy on DmC3

Fiend Ryu is overrated. He is fun to fight, but he can pull off bullshit any time he feels like it.

>DmC

DMC3 bashers reveal their true colors.

Because DMC people are a lot more shill than these salty faggots i have had this discussion any times before.

Better and varied level design, this is a no brainer. Actual atmosphere, when there's downtime and there is quite a bit it's easy to immerse yourself in the game, downtime is important in action games regardless of what some morons will tell you. Better enemy variety and enemies in general, 1/3d of DmC3's roaster is fucking chess board pieces, FUCKING CHESSBOARD PIECES with their lame animations that have no business being outside of their boss room but are because DmC3 as pushed out the door. The old RE style investigate mechanic adds a lot to the game in my opinion and it has actual attempts at world building with the bestiary which interact in a very original way with actual gameplay, great stuff. Now the most important part. enemies actually have fucking movesets and are not just inflated potato sacks for you to do le ebin cawmbos on. Finally it has an amazing soundtrack with nothing but hit tracks while 3 is a couple of great tracks in a sea of audio diarrhea

Dark Souls 2 is the best game in the franchise, now fuck off.

How about you put some fucking arguments instead of your "No u" shitposting? I gave you some arguments

In DMC3 you fight more than one enemy type at a time, and you often fight enemies in greater numbers than you do in DMC, so those changes are pretty natural and unsurprising.
To put it another way: DMC was the way it was largely just because of technical limitations. If they could have had multiple enemy types at a time, they would not have needed to give enemies such a wide variety of attacks to keep things interesting.

>Dark Souls 2 is the best game in the franchise, now fuck off.

You put a lot of work into that post just to out yourself as a baiter.

You can put the movesets of all those enemies you fight at the same time together and they would not match a single basic as fuck marionette. It's nothing to do with that, it's quite clear that the game switched from being about surviving without resorting to spam to a game based entirely on making long combos.

Most of the enemies in 3 have 1 move, ONE FUCKING MOVE. There is no excuse for that.

I told you to fuck off soulsfag, go shit up your own threads.

>Shill

I've been in this place too long...

It looks at least a bit more open than Bayonetta, am I wrong?

>I told you to fuck off soulsfag, go shit up your own threads.
Nice argument. I'm not even the guy you were replying to faggot, just calling it like I see it.

Then fuck off with him. No one fucking cares about your SoulsTurds shit flinging wars.

No one said it was a bunch of corridors or something, there is just isn't any going back and forth between areas like 1. Once you get to Tairon you never leave while in 2 and RE each chapter is basically a new location, and that user is right some of them are pretty long.

Razor's Edge was such a kickass game, with online coop even, and nobody cares...