What the fuck was his problem?

What the fuck was his problem?

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Brother just wanted to get paid, he didn't give two shits no more.

A depressed man making one mistake after the other.

Why didn't he just teleport away?

He probably lost track of what the fuck was going on since the plot was so goddamned stupid.

this game had worse graphics than gta 4

>I can't understand it, therefore it's stupid!

He didn't want to kidnap the child, he just had to escape his dark past.
He was only following orders.

Nothin' personal, kiddo.

A baby could understand the plot.

It was stupid.

True dat. The writing's so all over the place that Kellogg remembers Shaun giving him the order to kill all the other frozen dudes even though Shaun was a newborn

I can't believe they thought having a dog track down an old scent trail made sense

>He didn't like it, so he must have misunderstood it!

Name a better, more emotionally investing Fallout plot. You can't.
>m-m-m-muh New Vegas!!11
No, Shit Vegas isn't better, fuck off.

>getting emotionally invested in Fallout 3 - Freaky Friday edition

Were you honestly emotionally invested in FO4's plot? I'm surprised to hear that since the game hardly gives you any reason to care about Shaun or even your spouse.

...

>Emotionally invested plot

>The wife character you've known for five minutes is killed in front of you
>Please feel sad

>Your missing son that you've never interacted with is now an old man dying of cancer
>Please feel sad

He was in a Bethesda game

>You're a parent searching for an abducted child
>this isn't emotional
Maybe if you're a fucking sociopath with abusive parents who's never known parental love and will spend his miserable life as a virgin.

Go see a fucking psychiatrist

bait

Lmao it's the same generic plot as fallout 3. I have zero reason to care about Shaun other than the game telling me to find him.

At least you get to talk to your dad in 3

It looks good on paper but you interact with your family for 10 minutes before being thrown into that scenario. It takes a lot more to have a character grow on me than just being told to care about them because of plot reasons. I don't care about my family because of my birth certificate telling me that we are blood related, I care about them because I've known them my whole life and we've gone through a shitload of experiences together. I cared more about the dad in FO3 than I did about Shaun and the wife in FO4 because of this. You at least spent some time with Liam Dadson, going through some pretty varied scenarios and situations where you can see him react differently to your chosen actions, making him grow as a character that you can either care about or hate depending on what sort of person you are.

In FO4, there's hardly any interaction at all. I'm just told to care because the baby asset is designated as my son and the lady NPC is my wife.

>I have zero reason to care about Shaun
Yeah, he's only your fucking son. But who cares about children, right? My dad beat me, so obviously there are no parents out there who love their children, right? Fuck parents! *cuts wrist*

If you can't sympathize with a parent who lost their child (even if you don't know them), then you have genuine brain chemistry problems.

Fallout
Fallout 2
Fallout New Vegas.

You're a fucking loon.

I just love how you're implying I have emotional damage while you're getting attached to people you know for five minutes. I don't fall in love with every girl I talk to, and neither should you.

>What is empathy?

I can sympathise but you're telling me to be the parent who's lost their child and spouse that I haven't known at all. It's why I have an easier time carrying out quests for NPCs and empathising with their struggles than I did adopting the emotions of the MC in FO4.

Don't feed the trolls. This guy doesn't even realise player is a synth

>I don't fall in love with every girl I talk to, and neither should you.
youtube.com/watch?v=LuyMicRUUnw

Empathy is something you feel when you've gone through the same experience as someone else. Sympathy is the word you're looking for.

Nice little Freudian slip.

Something you clearly do not understand.

>I can sympathize, you guys!
>I just don't because UHHHH
>But I'm not a psycho! For real!
You're either trolling me or this place is worse than I was told.

When my daughters were born, I known them for a total of a few minutes but I knew I loved them more than anything and I knew they would be the best things to ever happen in my life. If someone snatched my child that I knew only a few minutes of in its entirety of life, I would travel through hell and back just to get her.

According to this thread, you are insane and stupid.

This doesn't compare. Shaun isn't your real life flesh and blood child. He's a video game character and the son of your player character.

That's different user. You knew about your children for at least 35 weeks. And the woman who carried them is obviously a loved one.

If I spent 35 weeks (or even 30 minutes through a fallout 3 esque intro) with Shaun it'd be easier to care.

>I should care about this baby who I've known for only 5-10 minutes.

It's literally the reverse of fallout 3's plot, except in 3 you could always assume the lone wanderer hates their dad for abandoning them in the vault, so it at least makes some sense why you aren't running around doing odd jobs.

In new vegas you could be chasing Benny for answers, revenge, you could just happen to go to vegas and not want to mess with the guy who nearly killed you, only for victor to take you to house after arriving and getting pulled into the main plot.

In 4, no matter what your character always acts concerned for Shaun, even if they've been spending a month in game helping random people, making drugs, weapons and armour or building towns instead of searching for their son.

Like I said, I can sympathise with the struggle but the game wants me to adopt the emotions of this parent which isn't sympathising. I can sympathise with a struggle or motivation and proceed to help an NPC with that in a quest line just fine because it matters to them and that's the sort of character that I play as, but when you're telling me to play as the parent with this particular type of struggle or motivation, then it's no longer as surface level as sympathising. Being in the shoes of the character would require the game to give me reasons to care that deeply about it which it didn't even try to do. They honestly shouldn't have rushed into throwing you into the post apocalyptic future and let you spend a few days in the past with your family so you can develop some sort of bond with them. That would have let me be emotionally-invested in the plot since I would grow to care about the family and the MC instead of just playing the game to fulfill the checklist of quests.

>railroading is fine if it's Obsidshit doing it
Opinion discarded.

Kellogg went from being a man/father trying to provide for his wife and kid to losing them and becoming a broken and bitter man. After losing them, he lost his purpose in life and became nothing but an empty shell, working for a group only because they paid well. A mercenary. He is also supposed to be somewhat of a reflection of what could be for your character. He himself during the sequence were you go through his memories, states how he can sympathise with the lone wanderer.

I like how they touch a bit on the NCR and if you paid attention, he was from San Francisco.

Shitty writing was his problem

It is supposed to reflect the same concept. That you would do what the character would do if you were in his/her shoes. Your mentality can be applied to the same for anything in any game because you aren't in the game thus you aren't the characters. They aren't real so you cannot connect with them. Real parents like myself have sympathy for the main character thus you know why he/she is doing it. One would have to be a shit parent if they wouldn't want to go and rescue their child if taken from them.

That's the point.

>railroading
Confirmed for never playing the game

pretty weak premise

You're honestly expecting autists to be capable of role-playing. Rethink your life.

hilarious

There's literally only one role you can play in Fallout 4

The fuck do you think role-playing means?

That's fair and understandable, but it is pretty shaky and would have benefited a lot from just letting you spend more time with your family before having them taken away from you. At the very least, players would have been able to develop their own bond with the spouse and child instead of having to be told to care. Even if the game had to rely on time cuts like FO3's intro, say from the start of your marriage to your spouse to the pregnancy and birth and finally to spending some time as a family, it would have been significant enough to give the player a reason to care because they experience this for themselves and aren't just being told that it happened.

Two actually. A loving ex-militay husband and father, or a loving lawyer wife and mother.

He is a victim of deep bethesda lore
>wife, we can't go back to THE NCR in the WEST, it's all messed up over there in THE HUB

He had a shitty life, pretty much drained his morals from his body. He didn't give a fuck anymore.

>Yes
>Yes
>Yes
>Yes you fuck

in a role playing game you typically have the freedom to make up your own character, give them a backstory, an attitude, a fashion sense.

Every time you play 4 it's the same character

>it is pretty shaky and would have benefited a lot from just letting you spend more time with your family before having them taken away from you
It's only shaky if the player is a sociopath incapable of basic human emotion. It's not Bethesda's fault most Sup Forums-goers are mental.
>b-b-b-but you MUST experience something in order to be able to sympathise!
>it's LITERALLY impossible to project yourself into someone else's situation and imagine their feelings!
Sure, if you're autistic.

Maybe or maybe not. No one is exactly the same so of course you may not like it. For a fallout game, overall, it isn't all that great. Kind of fun. But they went a little too far from the fallout aspect. But the plot isn't bad. The idea is there and it is an emotional one, something that adults with children could sympathise. I can see young single people with no children could find a lot of this hard to accept or grasp or make connections. But you and I both know if they gave way too much time trying to make this connection of emotions for the parent to kids for the audience, majority of you would bitch and moan about how so much time is wasted on nothing. And really, look at previous fallouts "why bother caring about saving your vault due to needing a new water chip when you never knew a single person in the vault in the first place"? I'm the end, you could save your vault or not. In fallout 4, you could help your son or not or even extract him. Up to you in the end.

Nothing is perfect.

It doesn't work. Your own children awaken an innate biological desire to protect them. A work of fiction doesn't trigger the same thing spontaneously, it has to work bring it out for you. Fallout 4 doesn't try to make you care about your family, it just expects you to. Even if you're a bleeding heart that forms emotional attachments to fictional characters within seconds (which by the way isn't normal) it doesn't negate the fact that Fallout 4's main quest story is a lazily written, lackluster piece of shit.

>the height of role playing is a sex change
You should be embarrassed

Way to put words in my mouth m8. I think it's just as retarded as you do.

Your mental gymnastics are amusing

Were you born in the 00s? Have you never played a p&p RPG with pre-made characters? Fallout games have always been RPGs where you're given a pre-made backstory and character. Bethesda just took it a step further by fleshing out said character's backstory and motives. It's Obsidshit that fucked up by not having a pre-made character, and settling to let the players make it up themselves, because thinking up stories is too hard and we aren't getting paid enough.

Playing Fallout 4 is like playing an RPG where your DM gives you a pre-made character to play. If your autism isn't letting you role-play as this character, that's your fault.

It's not impossible to just simply project yourself into someone's situation but it wouldn't be as emotionally investing as experiencing all of it for yourself. I can imagine their feelings and sympathise but it would have been much better if I could develop those feelings for myself and take a step further into empathy.

I'm a crybaby and I agree completely I didn't give a single shit about (X) SHAUN

His problem was being written by incompetent writer(s).

There's a difference between a premade character like JC Denton and the sole survivor. Don't play the false equivalence game here.

>The idea is there and it is an emotional one, something that adults with children could sympathise.
Yeah it's a good thing this game was made for younger people who are around the ages of 14 to their 20s in mind and not fucking boomers

Maybe and maybe not. There is a word called sympathy. And that is exactly where the developers were trying to do. Get the player to gain sympathy for the character. Just because you are a fedora tipper who thinks that due to anything being biological, that you can't have any other kind of emotions and feelings for anything inanimate, doesn't mean you are correct. You would then find all video games boring because there really isn't any emotional attachment to anything because well, it isn't biological.

Add to that, let it sink in for a moment: have you ever played Fallout 1 and 2? While it gives you way more freedom, you still have a specific objective and path to follow. It was just more expanded and more options during g the play through.

It's literally the same thing. A pre-made character, in a game that offers you a linear story with minor variations (although let's be fair, F4 offers a LOT more variation in non-main-quest content).

Just because your beloved Obsidian forgot to write a backstory for the Courier in NV and had a boring ass blank slate instead of a main character doesn't mean it's proper role-playing.

>It was just more expanded and more options during g the play through.
THIS IS EXACTLY THE POINT

no it's not

have you ever played deus ex?

They should've let us deal with him in different ways. You can spare Benny, start working with him, even fuck him. I can't see why Kellogg would be any different.

Well, I'm only 28 so I'm not that old or anything. I got married younger and have two kids.

>Fallout 1
>you're from a vault
>Fallout 2
>you're a tribal and related to the guy in the vault
Wow such detailed backstories. They just give you a very loosely defined role to contextualize your place in the world and never at any point force you into the role of a swashbuckling pre-war military vet looking for his kid. You acting like New Vegas being the first game in the series to do something like that is laughable.

>player choice and freedom is bad
Gotta love it

I was more invested in the water chip than Shaun tbqh family

The center points were. Not the beginning or the end. As much as I wish there were far more options through the centerline part of the game, I can see it being tough to voice all the lines.

It would have been fun if the Gunners were far more than mercenary raider types.

No, it's so players can create their own character instead of forcing them into one they don't care about.

Pre made characters can be done well, planescape torment proves that, but fallout 4 isn't a good example.

Also thinking up stories is too hard? You do realise that fallout 3 and fallout 4 both start the exact same way with the only difference being the roles are reversed.

Maybe think next time before making yourself look like a retard.

>bethesdrones

If you want to play a blank slate, go play BioWare shit. Fallout has always had predetermined protagonists.
Again, Beth went the extra mile and fleshed out the backstories for the protagonists of F3 and F4. They did nothing new to the series, they just did a better job of it than other developers.

>BETHESDA Fallout has always had predetermined protagonists
Ftfy

>New Vegas was my first Fallout game
Good to know, bub.

>Fallout has always had predetermined protagonists.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

I must've missed the part where the vault dweller had a son named Shaun

>Fallout has always had predetermined protagonists.

Ignoring the fact that the little backstories written for Fallout 1 and 2 premade characters are never mentioned or effect anything in-game and also you can instead create a custom build character that doesn't even have a inconsequential 2 paragraph bio.

That's just a fuck-up on Black Isle's part. Beth fixed it by not only giving your character a backstory, but also having it have an effect on the story/game world.

Stop falling for it.

N e v e r

It wasn't a fuck up you cocksucker, it was an intentional choice.

They had prebuilds for new players so they wouldn't be overwhelmed by character creation.

Your dad fucked up when he didn't pull out of your mother. rekt.

Troll or not these are shit arguments

>slurp slurp slurp *gulp*
>thank you for cummies daddy Bethesda

>Maybe and maybe not. There is a word called sympathy. And that is exactly where the developers were trying to do. Get the player to gain sympathy for the character. Just because you are a fedora tipper who thinks that due to anything being biological, that you can't have any other kind of emotions and feelings for anything inanimate, doesn't mean you are correct. You would then find all video games boring because there really isn't any emotional attachment to anything because well, it isn't biological.
There needs to be a reason given for the sympathy, it needs to be built up, otherwise what's the difference between them and that raider I hunted down solely so I could loot his corpse and sell his shit? He had a mother, father, maybe a girl and a child, who knows?
You can't just designate someone as a sympathetic character, that's trash tier fiction in any medium. No filmmaker alive would get away with it, and only obsessive clingy fucks like you wouldn't care.

>*slurrrp* *lick, lick, lick*
>"M-More, daddy Obsidian!"
Nice "arguments".

>Fallout 1: vault dweller who was sent into the wastes. Can pick three different presets all designed for a certain play style and some small amount of backstory (one for combat, one for stealth and one for persuading people.) or create your own character.

>Fallout 2: Tribal sent into the wastes to find a geck. Can also choose 3 presets or create your own character.

>Fallout 3: your mom died giving birth to you, you were raised in a vault by Liam Neeson. When you're about 19 he left without telling you why and you have to find him in the wastes.

>Fallout New Vegas: You were a courier. That's it. Anything else is up to you to decide.

>Fallout 4: your a survivor of the war who was frozen for 200 years. You lived in sanctuary hills. You had 1 child, a boy named Shaun. You had a dog who went missing shortly before the war. You were either a infantryman fighting the Chinese or a female lawyer.

Fallout doesn't always have pre determined characters, or at the very least not as much as the Bethesda entry's. Get your facts right.

You're either not getting me or are baiting. The only pre-determind role they gave you in the original games were some optional pre-made characters that no one ever used and a very basic role, eg vault dweller looking for water, or tribal looking for a GECK. Other than that, they are complete blank slates that allow the player to project whatever personality you want onto them as well as whatever kind of role you want to mold them into over the course of the game. New Vegas was the same deal.

All bethesda managed to accomplish with these incredibly hamfisted and awkwardly handled pre-determined characters is severely limit player agency and choice in the game world as well as going against their own fucking design philosophy of letting the player go anywhere and do anything, when at the same time they want you to be a super concerned parent running around desperately looking for their kid while in game you're building fucking towns and grabbing some smelly wasteland dreg's lost gun some raiders stole or whatever else.

I took the bait.

>"Fallout doesn't always have predetermined characters, except it does."
You Obsidrones are all fucking mentally ill.

You keep saying obsidian when you're the only one talking about them

Keep deep throating Todd Howard though

how is a vault dweller/tribal sent on a quest any different than the courier out for revenge?

>oh Todd gimme that fucking cum I worked hard for it I want it I want it

thoughts?