Is it true that Bayonetta is the strongest character?

Is it true that Bayonetta is the strongest character?

Also, it's pretty crazy to think that we have a game that has Bayonetta, Cloud, Sonic, Megaman, Ryu and Pac-Man all in one.
Do you think Smash DX on the Switch will add even more?

no

bayonetta hasnt been in a top 8 for the last 5 tournament.

People figured out the Bayo meta

...

While she's busted, so are Diddy and Cloud. She doesn't straight out break the game, but she's overwhelming if you don't know how to handle her. Or if you use a shitter character like Ganondorf.

Bayonetta is an awfully designed Smash character that can only win cheaply, but she's not the best in the game.

The one thing Smash Switch needs.

Wolf, ICs, and Inklings would be nice though.

>Snake
>Issac/Felix
>Ray MkII/III
>Ridley
>Ice Climbers
>K. Rool

If they added any two of these-- one, if it's Issac or Felix-- I'd buy it.

>Ganondorf
>F Tier

remember when people said Marth was shit

No because we're getting 64 HD

Yeah, he should be lower.

He still is shit, most other characters are shittier

I still think Cloud needs to get nerf'd. I don't even know in what way, but I feel like he's got dozens more safe options than the rest of the cast combined.

t. FG shitter

>Also, it's pretty crazy to think that we have a game that has Bayonetta, Cloud, Sonic, Megaman, Ryu and Pac-Man all in one.
If I told my past self this I would have never believed myself

video games sure have come a long way

What if everyone from D to F got buffed without changing anyone else?

Then most of them would still be D while a few would be C or B at best.

That's cause diddy is such a good all rounder and has amazing utility (Banana), Shiek is able to space, punish and reach for attacks other characters aren't able too, Cloud outranges most of the meta, anything at B tier struggles to punish her small faults, powerful space and poke game and a single mess up from them results in a heavy punish from Bayo, she's not powerful against a good player playing a good character, but she's powerful against most of the lower roster because of how heavy they rely on small but effective things that make them great that are simple canceled or way too risky for Bayo.

>Mewtwo in A
I distinctly remember Mewtwo being awful. What happened? Haven't played since last DLC released.

Nah the Sm4sh competitive community had a lot of rosterfagging in it because the hype train was still going when the game first came out and for about a year while the meta was beginning. She was the last character so rosterfags have a chip on their shoulder over her, and since some of them are in places of power in the meta of Sm4sh they can influence it as they want instead of letting it happen honestly.
She's good, but especially after her nerfs executing her at a high level at all times is difficult and people understand how to counter her now, she's not far and away the best character like Smash autists claim.

Cloud is significantly more egregious because he allows for low player skill to result in top tier output.

Got buffed movement speed and less endlag, becoming a monster.

Mewtwo has been a top threat for a while. Not so much now I suppose, haven't been checking tourney shit but he's definetly a much better character than he was before thanks to patches.

>played mewtwo in melee despite everything
>mfw over a decade of patience is being rewarded
If only I could ever pull myself away from Roy and Bayo.

>Playing Roy.

All I want is for Wolf to be back.

I do great with roy and genuinely can't fathom his location on the tier list.
He's also one of the only characters I can just go all out offensive with

He was, patches happened

Who's ready for the entire Sm4sh meta to be transferred to shitty tablets that we wont be able to get our hands on because of production being throttled for maybe 2 characters and the stages from both versions?

I'm seriously fucking praying that Smash Switch is just identical to the WiiU version. Or that some miracle happens and that Sakurai's rule about 3DS and WiiU having identical rosters and gameplay is extended to any future Switch version.

they took away Isaac's assist trophy and I was really hoping that it was because he was planned as a potential character. Biggest gaming related letdown of the last 5 years

>tfw I'm waiting for Switchax
>to use my Gamecube adapter for Smash Deluxe

Why? It'll most likely be supported. Pokken, like Smash, was also developed by Bamco, and supports the Wii U Pokken controller.

His gimmick exists in complete opposition with his nature as a sword character, so for anyone with some minimal understanding of spacing Roy hits are like slaps from a baby and going all in denies any range advantage from having a disjointed hitbox.

Also he's worst lord and was only brought back because of huge melee nostalgiafags who never played his game. I'm no space furfag, but even Wolf had a better case for returning

>oh no! Bayonetta managed to press down b before you landed a hit! Now she gets to kill you at 40% with no effort whatsoever!
I was extremely hyped for Bayo but she ended up being such a retarded character. She's designed to be a combo heavy character but then they also gave her the strongest counter in the game

Yeah that's good but with Switchax, I'll be able to play all Switch games with my Gamecube controller.
So I won't have to buy Pro controller or whatever at 70€.

>Ryu is better than Mewtwo and ZSS
>Marth is also better than Mewtwo and Rosalina
>Mario isn't top 6.
>Lucina and Falcon are higher than that. >Villager is not that good of a character, he's just carried by Ranai.
>Corrin is way too high.
>Donkey Kong should be higher than Bowser and in B tier, he's literally just Bowser but better. >Yoshi sucks, Pit, Lucas, Robin and R.O.B are all better than him.

>It'll most likely be supported
>WiiU supports 3 generations of controller hardware
>Switch supports 1 gen of controller hardware and it's 20 dollars more expensive than the industry standard for no reason
You're gonna buy a new adapter for double the price and thank Kimishima for the opportunity to do so.

All the paywall characters are top tier... wow really makes you etc etc. guess it's okay, it is nintendo after all.

>go on for glory after not playing for about a year
>pick wario
>other guy picks bayo
>get dragged off the top of the screen twice
>taunts
>quit
>turn off wii u

>all

Take a look at Fire Marth and Blonde Ness, Scaly Marth to a lesser extent as well.

>Paywall characters
Roy is shit, Corrin is shit.

Roy, Lucas and Corrin are all mediocre.

It's funny that Lucas is lower tier than Ness despite having better combos, just because of Ness' backthrow and bair

>That steady rise from Fox and Marth in the tiers

Worriedlaughter.jpg

>Lucina that high
>What is Zero bandwagoning

>Top tier is half DLC and half base game
>Bayonetta is "theoretical" top tier but never shows up in execution
>3:1 base game to dlc ratio in A tier
>10:1 base game to dlc ratio in B tier
>DLC characters in C and E tier
This has always been the most retarded opinion.

you're shit

No amount of number nerfing can stop a good kit of moves.

WhERe aRE her BUffS?

>tfw

>Combo heavy/Deathtouch character
>Rapid jab that does 19% that's impossible to DI out of
>Large disjointed hitboxes
>Best recovery in the game
>Best edgeguarder in the game
>The only character in the game that can actually ignore all of the measures put in to put a stop to planking and successfully do it anyways
>The best counter in the game that's also the hardest to punish
>frame 1 airdodge

Why was this character allowed?

...

She has a bit of landing lag if she spams 9999 moves in the air so it's okay XD

unless you consider hitbox size to be part of number nerfing. I don't know for certain if Nintendo adjusted hitboxes over the patch history, but I don't see marth ever getting to top tier in smash 4. Cloud is better than him in just about every way.

You can get rid of it if you use a special move right before you land.

>still gives him the fist bump
sportsmanship is godliness

Yeah but Marth is still trucking along in A, hardly irrelevant

Forgot the best one.

>Never wins anything
>S-so overpowered
When will people stop being devastated?

Also those hitbox lines are like 1 damage with no knockback.

Yeah I realized after that I forgot her obnoxious Nair. Thanks for the save, user.

>Sex kick that lasts as long as you hold the A button

WHY THE FUCK IS THIS ALLOWED

I don't really care that much about tourney viability, I just hate playing against Bayonetta. Most of the top tiers are incredibly unfun to play against. That's what I get for maining Samus and Lucas I guess.

They have adjusted hitboxes.
With Marth in particular, early one his fair had less range than Sheik's one. With the current patch, Marth's fair has more range.

How ?

The playerbase has clearly adapted to her user, no need to rail against her for a user end issue

That attack consists of many hitboxes and one of them sends the opponent flying abnormally high. I don't remember why and you're normally not supposed to hit just that one hitbox, if the others also connect that doesn't happen. Mario's up b has the same effect, I think you need to land just the first split second of his up b and whiff the rest.

A lot of multihit moves have very weird knockback on the first hit, to ensure the opponent is launched into the other hits.
Samus's up B has very high knockback on the first hit, which is normally not noticed as the other hits connect. That webm shows someone getting hit only by the first hit of the attack, plus the effects of rage.

...

I think it has to do with the first hit is supposed to send them in a trajectory to follow Mario/Samus during the attack, the second hit of the attack will cancel the knockback. It's wonky exploitable design

>>Rapid jab that does 19% that's impossible to DI out of

out of all the things, this pisses me off the most, I always try to wiggle out of it but it just pulls me in further, it's so infuriating

You don't have to win tournaments to be the best character in the game. Consider that in Smash 4 90% of the major tournaments are won by either a Diddy Kong, Mario or Marth player. None of those characters are the best in the game, hell you could make a case none of them are top 5.

Smash 4 has hitboxes that do extremely high amounts of knockback, but they're supposed to link in the finishing move. The key word is "supposed" here, you can hit the move at a certain angle to get one of these high hitstun high knockback moves on purpose. Or in the case of Samus here simply have so much rage that the move no longer works properly. ZSS can do the exact same thing, in fact when you see ZSS kill off the top without seeing the finisher this is probably what she did.

Fox's Forward Air-Footstool works similarly, Fox actually falls so fast he can fastfall and get out of the move before the finisher leaving his opponent in a ton of hitstun, then he can footstool them to finish it.

yeah, the playerbase of tournament players who play the characters that can beat her.

>You don't have to win tournaments to be the best character in the game.

>Wolf, ICs, and Inklings would be nice though.
I'd throw Wonder Red in there too. He absolutely deserves to be in.

So why did you ignore the second sentence, that points out that the majority of Smash 4 tournaments are won by characters that aren't the best in the game?

Hell this is even true for Melee and no one is trying to say Jigglypuff or Peach are the best players in the game. Hbox wins Melee majors using only Puff and Armada wins them using primarily Peach and sometimes only Peach if he doesn't face the players he will use Fox for.

Also, damn, I haven't paid attention to the competitive scene or tier lists for Smash 4 in a minute. Marth is really that good now? Fuck me.

>all those 20 years males happy for a kids' video game
This is good because they will not have kids and maybe there well be less idiots in the world

You can be a good or even mediocre character that wins tournaments a lot. There's that one Yoshi player in melee, probably somebody in Smash who does similar, etc. But those characters are still lower tiers because of where the average performance for that character sits.
You cannot be "The best character in the game" with zero realized competitive viability. Bayonetta doesn't win tournaments. She occasionally pulls off a combo that produces salt, that's not grounds for her to be the best character in the game, results are.

I have 20 wives and 68 kids and play Smash 4 at a professional level so fuck off kid

>Fucking mega man nearly won EVO last year
>only ranked B
Fucking smash autists, every damn time.

>Roy in E-tier
It hurts bros

He got really good buffs in the 1.1.4 patch, tipper hitboxes got bigger & damage buffs on some key moves.

So who do you think the best character in Smash 4 is, then?

Cloud?
>Doesn't win tournaments

Sheik?
>Hasn't won a tournament since she was nerfed and ZeRo stopped playing her

I'm trying to point out what's wrong with putting too much emphasis on results, especially in a game like Smash 4 that's inconsistent as fuck and results are heavily reliant on bracket luck. Case in point: Dabuz won Civil War because of the best bracket luck of all time, all of the players that could have beaten him were either upset early(ZeRo, Leo and Ally) or weren't on his side of the bracket(Mr.R and Larry Lurr).

Smash 4 has a lot wider viability. I think it has more emphasis on reads than matchups compared to Melee Brawl or Project M, which works as an equalizer of sorts. But I'm no expert so don't quote me on it.

>He absolutely deserves to be in.

>especially in a game like Smash 4 that's inconsistent as fuck
You've answered your own question. In execution Smash 4 doesn't have a definitive best character right now.

That's about right. Having a good tournament result in Smash 4 is almost as reliant on bracket luck as it is how good you're playing on that certain day.

The whole game is shit because its based on not doing anything, the attacker is always at a disadvantage. The best character theoretically is sheik because he can avoid playing the game for longer than other characters, AND chase opponents that try to outcamp him.

>Being a frogposter
My 50 year old mother knows about pepe. By name. Pepe the internet frog. She found out about him "on the twitter"

It is literally a normie meme

>The best character theoretically is sheik

But she hasn't won a tournament since she got nerfed.

>Say that Smash 4 has an emphasis on reading your opponents moves
>Correct. Smash 4 results are random
Maybe you just suck?

Lucina isn't shit! Lucina can win! I'm proud to main Lucina!

>Play against a Lucina main
>Can't get it out of the back of my mind that they're one of these autists who literally worships her online behind closed doors
>Lose the match because I can't focus
Only reasons she's b tier is her mind games meta.

>Smash 4 results are random

Smash 4 results are completely random, all of the top players prefer Brawl because it was clear they were the best in the game and the only threats were other top players. Smash 4 has a considerably lower skill gap and is more heavily based on what MU you're playing. ZeRo lost to a Zero Suit Samus player who isn't even first in his region a few months ago. That would NEVER happen in Brawl or Melee.

>Mewtwo
>A tier

Did I miss something?
Mewtwo is dog shit bad, I haven't seen a good players of him.
Mewtwo is a joke online, and easy to punish.

that's because people aren't at that level yet. People still play Wii Fit Trainer and Falco and win.

It just means the game hasn't evolved yet to create unplayable characters.

Sure thing cuck

When will people understand that there's just no way to properly implement Blunder Red's playstyle into Smash?

>Lucas will never be good

Oh well.

Mewtwo got buffed several times throughout the games life. The last one made him as fast as Sheik on the ground. He's generally seen as a glass cannon character. He also won a major tournament last year, Pound 5.

His best player is starting to play him a little less now, though. Using Bayonetta for certain matchups.

>my nigga Robin so low
Shit list

>People still play Wii Fit Trainer and Falco and win

I mean, unless that tournament doesn't have any top players at it. I suppose those characters can also win locals, but you could probably win a local with Roy in Melee so..