Pillars of Eternity IP in other genres?

youtube.com/watch?v=78V3ziK-0tE
8:35 - 9:55

> Josh Sawyer on the possibility of using the Pillars of Eternity IP for other genres like real time strategy or first person games.

So what do you guys think? Would you play a Pillars RTS or Pillars Elder scrolls game?

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No. I just want them to take Deadfire and put it in 3rd person. Sick and tired of outdated isometric crpg's.

One of the prime problems of the game was forgettable and bland setting, at least as far initial expressions go (I didn't end up completing it). Of course, a game can be decent despite its bland setting but I sure as hell wouldn't play PoE RTS/MMO/whatever just because it's PoE.

So a RTWP combat system in 3rd person? That makes no sense. Or do you want it to be 3rd person action game?

Don't forget walls of text that could've easily been halfed.

RTWP. Like DAO, or full time action like Dragons Dogma. Both were able to take party based combat and bring it to third person in a good way. Isometric is so fucking boring and unimmersive. Only games that need it should use it like RTT or RTS. It's not 2000 anymore.

I personally think the lore and writing is some of the best in the industry right now, but I'm aware that's not common opinion...

Yes I agree or at the very least make it top down 3D like Divinity OS, there's literally no excuse for isometric view from a mid tier studio like Obsidian.

A 3rd person RPG type game would be pretty nice. However, I'm not sure if pillars is popular enough to get enough recognition to thrive in the open world RPG market by itself.

DAO totally butchered the CRPG formula. This trend did undoubtedly continue in the sequels. Neither the action based combat (which barley was action based in the first place) or the pause combat was any good. Isometric is best from a aesthetic and tactical view. Pillars looks miles better then Divinity.

If Divinity can somehow do it... no one knows what the hell that game is. This has Obsidian's name behind it, at least.

Nothing is special or compelling about the IP at all, using it in other genres is completely pointless. The entire appeal is in it being an isometric throwback game. This just proves once again Sawyer is fucking retarded and shouldn't be in charge.

What are you talking about, DAO was 3D BG2 with MMO style instead of D&D style combat.

>MMO...
>Not butchered...

think this only proves you sound like an idiot, dude

Eh, I would play it. But I don't think the PoE universe is really interesting enough to warrant it. I'd rather they just make a new IP

he's not wrong

It was fine. The average person, which DAO was made for, wouldnt be able to understand 2E D&D gameplay. But Bioware did a decent job at making a combat system that wasn't too hard or too easy.

>I personally think the lore and writing is some of the best in the industry right now

The problem is that they tell you about all this cool shit, and then make you play in the blandest possible time and location.

Imagine if the game had been set during
>the war of defiance
>war of black trees
>broken stone war
>saints war
Or in Old Valia or the Living Lands.

The game is pretty much "All the neat stuff already happened. Enjoy." For fucks sake we didn't even get to see Halgot Citadel.

The reason I'm looking forward to the second one is mainly because the Deadfire Archipelago seems like it's actually an interesting place.

THIS GUY GETS IT.

I don't think it makes sense to just scrap an entire universe because it doesn't have a gimmick that excites you, even personally. I think the soul magic stuff is cool, but it's more about what can be done in the universe than some gimmicky conceit that shows up in every element of the universe.

The other problem is the endless text dumps, the game was inspired by baldurs gate which was pretty minimal with the dialog and reading then they go full autism in PoE where every character has a fucking novel to read

taking on the foundry in White March was pretty epic in a classic sense. But you are right, it was set in a pretty depressed period, where no one was having kids and were terrified, nothing was glorious.

>DAO totally butchered the CRPG formula
I mean I'd agree it wasn't as complex as BG or IWD but it was fine. I'm just saying that you can do everything an Isometric does in third person. The game is much better looking and immersive that way.

>reading in a cRPG
this isn't really a valid complaint, you just don't like it.

>create a ranger
>first companion you get is a mage
>I just get bumrushed because my bear dies instantly
I'm going to have to set the difficulty to normal or easy. This is fucking absurd.

Not even the chanting guy has good CQ tanking.

I'm not saying I hate reading in an RPG, i'm just saying PoE had too much of it. PoE has a bit of the Morrowind effect where NPCs feel like wikipedia pages instead of people having a conversation with you.

Pillars was trying to be every infinity engine game at once. This is the source of a lot of its problems. It sort of dabbles in everything each of the games is famous for, but doesn't excel where any of them did.

You can do this game with no party members, there must be a way. You can hire a shit-tier tank in the inns. But I always roll as something beefy when I first learn a game like this.

Monk was super fun.

I'd play the fuck out of a tactical turn based Pillars of Eternity

Elder Scrolls of Eternity, on the other hand, sounds lame.

Perhaps. Obsidian really seemed to be listening to feedback, so I believe text-dumps may be a thing that gets tweaked in the sequel.

Imo the text dumps should still be there but in the form of books and notes like Baldur's Gate. Maybe they were trying to do that originally but got carried away.

If there's one thing that PoE did right, it was the monk class.

Zipping across the battlefield, punching people into walls, kicking them into the ceiling, and unleashing aoe wave attacks made of literal pain at enemies. Playing an offtank monk was waaay more fun than playing a tanky paladin.

Yeah, at that point Obsidian might as well make a New Vegas equivalent for FO4.

Though I wouldn't mind if another highly-moddable open world RPG game came along and dethroned or gave TES a lot of competition.

Weren't a lot of characters written buy Kickstarter backers as well? I recall encountering a lot of ridiculous NPCs that took away my will to explore the fluff.

When is it coming out, anyway?

>it was set in a pretty depressed period, where no one was having kids and were terrified, nothing was glorious

If they wanted to go that route, they could have set the game during the Saints War, when a literal god was fucking up the country and everyone thought they were gonna die.

'Interesting' doesn't necessarily have to mean 'upbeat and happy'. I thought the War of Defiance would have been neat to experience, because of the unlikely alliance between the Dyrwoodans and Glanfathan tribes to overthrow Aedyran rule. In PoE the interactions between these two groups is a central aspect of a TON of backstory, but when you play they hardly ever meet.

>Though I wouldn't mind if another highly-moddable open world RPG game came along and dethroned or gave TES a lot of competition.

My opinion exactly, and I am burned out on the fallout/elder scrolls universes. So a open world RPG in the pillars universe would probably be good for the genre, which we all know hasn't been itself lately. The genre actually has a lot of potential...

>was pretty minimal with the dialog and reading
Baldur's Gate 2 had a fuck ton of dialogue. It was just spaced out.
IIRC, Baldur's Gate 2 has more dialogue than the scripts of the entire harry potter series combined.

A lot are, but there is an option that makes them stand out so you never have to interact with them. They are awful, and I think Obsidian kind of realizes this.

I want to do a playthrough where I kill every single one.

I agree. I think the setting was interesting for how bleak it was and what was making everything so bleak, but it could have been different.

I didn't mean that it didn't have a lot, i just meant that most conversations in the game were not long

The moment it goes full 3d and gains popularity it's going to be streamlined as much as Skyrim did.

>Pillars 3: Readceres first 3d game. RPG mechanics stay relatively the same.
>Pillars 4: Pearl Coast. Is streamlined to something similar to Oblivion.
>Pillars 5: The White that that Wends. Skyrim level streamlining.

It's going to happen.

I wouldn't mind either. But as side games. That way you keep everyone happy. This is what Dragon Quest does, it keeps it's mainline series as is but all the spinoffs try multiple different genres.

If the writing and RPG elements remain at least at a New Vegas level, then I'd be okay with some compromising.

I'd still be disappointed at simplification for the sake of not scaring away the mainstream crowd, though.

I'd be fine with that too. Heck if at the very least they leave the writing and choice in. I can live with Skyrim level streamlining.

>shameless milking is now okay because we own the IP
woah, Obsidian truly are terrible now
thank god Avellone left that sinking ship

I dislike the setting, so no

I don't really see them dumbing down their games , the fact that they're still doing isometric view shows me they're committed to what they're trying to make. Not that I wouldn't prefer 3D but they could easily have done 3D to make something more accessible. Also remember Sawyer is the director, he's extremely passionate about making a good RPG whether you agree with him or not, he's not like the Toddler who it's well known just wants to hit things with a warhammer in his games.

I don't mind reading but so much of the lore has no tie in with the current story. Maybe some people don't mind the word dump, but it would have been a better experience for everyone if the stories are somehow related to what you were trying to do. The Engwithans are dated so far back that there is almost no point in mentioning them. I get that they are the first to practice soul magic, but they brought nothing else to the table that the story could be rewritten to not include them. The Glanfathans conflict with the Drywoodans was a major part of the backstory, but aside from the beginning it didn't play any role on the story was shaped.

I also feel that having so many wars occuring within such a short time span cheapens the emotional impact on what a war can bring. These are my main gripe with the story.

nice shilling

ok kid

Your point about the Engwithians is true, and it seems like the sequel is going to place them in more upfront role.

>no argument
as expected

I think you're overselling Obsidian's name outside of CRPG circles. Larian was pretty much the same except they somehow put themselves on the map with Divinity 2 and D:OS exploded because of Kickstarter. I imagine they're also better off financially because they're entirely self-publishing.

Yeah and the moment they go 3d the normies flow in and fuck up the following sequel. It happens to every fucking series.

I don't think I am. They made a Fallout game. They know the name, but maybe they don't know the legacy.

Larian has also been committed to Divinity from get-go because Original Sin is basically what they've been trying to make from the very first game before publisher meddled.

Why do people that started gaming recently are so in love with PoE anyway? Is it because they never actually played other cRPG with actual interesting settings? These are the same people that praise Tyranny too.

>The other problem is the endless text dumps

This is true and later explained when one of the writers divulged they literally ran with the FIST draft of the script because they had no time to revise it. It's also very easy to imagine Obsidian fell into the trap of feeling like they have to explain all this new lore to the player as soon as possible because, hey, they wrote it all.

>they somehow put themselves on the map with Divinity 2
They've been on the verge of dying ever since they barely managed to push out Divinity 2 though. It's a miracle they've survived till Div:OS practically saved them.

It's the fucking description and lore dump
I don't care if the random peasant that wants me to get his medicine scratch his balls while talking to me and i don't need him to tell me about the history of the town in details

>mfw backer NPCs

I wouldn't even care if they weren't obviously used as replacements for regular NPCs. Take them out and you have a lot of empty locations.

halved*

they kept funding themselves with educational software, right?

>even on their own terms they ran out of time

archive.is/UuGYO

PoE 2 looks so fucking good. I'm more hyped for it than any other game.

It's crazy how good this looks. Meanwhile, Tyranny is a complete disaster. They just released a DLC to add Overworld Encounters and announced a DLC that is set before the cliffhanger ending that introduces actual companion quests. Paradox was a mistake.

I can't remember a single thing about PoE except how fucking awful the combat was, the fact that Sawyer thinks so highly of it makes me realize why the game only got worse with each update, he clearly believes all he touches turns gold

I want them to ditch the shitty overhead/isometric camera. Outdated as fuck. RPGs should be immersive. I'm not playing a fucking strategy game. RPG's used to always have isometric cameras because it was fucking 2000, less money, less technology, etc...

Paradox also funded Tyranny so yeah, it was hardly Obsidian's main focus. You can tell Paradox calls the shots with the type of DLC it's getting.

It really never is Obsidian's fault is it?

Reminder he did nothing wrong
Reminder that it's been confirmed that your choice on what you did to him will matter in Deadfire
I hope you chose the right action

I see.

So you think KOTOR 1 and 2 are bad also.

>just reached act 2 of PoE
Forgot of boring it was, wish i could just rush the main quest and be done with it but I'm too autistic for that

He's not wrong, you know.

Anyone else not like White March too much? I thought the inside of that fortress was annoying as fuck. Way too many encounters for every fucking thing.

>your choice will matter
People still fall for that?

>people tell me they fixed the encounter
>pack of ogres and not sahaguin everywhere

You can even agree with him and he goes all "...yeah". Kinda weird how there wasn't an ending where you side with him.

That expansion just had a bunch of annoying encounters, but I had fun. Didn't kill that dragon.

Paradox wrote the game too apparently, literally never their fault.

>Pillars Elder scrolls game
could be pretty cool if it's big enough and they give it enough attention to detail
which means it'll never happen

This guy nailed it.

There is a difference between learning lore and the world through conversation, and every single person being Wikipedia.

Take Witcher 3 for example, I learn as I go. I never played the previous Witcher games, but I picked up on the world history through interesting conversations with all the characters. With an added character codex and bestiary, I could look up information I wanted on my own.

PoE also suffered from entirely too much purple prose. It doesn't make it more intriguing, or make you a smarter person because you can read through 900 pages of useless information. It's just a chore. I can clearly see the environment, I don't need to know how hot the fire feels and how loud it crackled.

I think Tyranny handled things a lot better, and I hope PoE2 takes a page from it.

you never know. Josh has said that there are plenty of people at Obsidian that would love to make a Skyrim-type Pillars game.

I'm still amazed they struck gold with DOS.

>isometric
>turn-based combat

Sounds like a huge waste of resources to me. If they make it, then I hope they don't fall for the fully open world meme like an Elder Scrolls game and still implement something like an overworld map with only a few fully designed areas.

they are taking the tooltip text when you hover over various words in a conversation, that is a start since it will avoid lore dumps.

Sawyer agrees.

Ironically enough, TL;DR.

Tyranny is a mess with a lot of flaws that I'm sure Obsidian is entirely to blame (The terrible skill system, for example), but Paradox's jewiness only adds even more problems to it.

are they going to remove all those pointless trash battles every 5 steps?

The Watcher knew too much and wasn't worth the risk. Even his most trusted followers from the Lead Key only knew a tenth of the story.

They said they would

That's the claim!

>isometric
>shit character models

how delusional do you have to be to think it would work?

>Reminder he did nothing wrong

>outright tells you that he's killed shit tons of people throughout history because 'muh secrets'
>nothing wrong

Not sure how people fall for this meme.

Choices in the first game mattered. Why wouldn't they matter in the sequel? I don't want a huge branching story that completely changes based on my choices, but asking for an extra NPC if you brought the baby with you or a cool extra side-quest if you kept Thaos alive wouldn't be asking too much.

but still no exp from battle, right?

>shit character models
Where? You mean in Deadfire? They look fine to me.

PoE is alright, Numenera is the one that somehow got everything wrong to some degree and I still don't know how it accomplished that.

>can avoid almost ALL combat in the game
>all that remains is somehow not at all engaging