So, did Venom actually have a unique identity/personality or was he always just an empty shadow/replication? Like...

So, did Venom actually have a unique identity/personality or was he always just an empty shadow/replication? Like, did he have any individual agency or was he exactly the same as Big Boss?

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He was a generic medic in MSF and after he became sort of like Big Boss before he gave up on The Boss and her ideals

Venom was a 6'5 blue eyed Aryan who was the best MSF soldier from BB's Mother Base and also happens to be the most top tier of them all oh and he is a doctor because reasons.

His stats are only A+ though, plenty of soldiers are superior. the only reason he performs better is his magical robo arm

Some autists are adamant about him being Gray Fox because of his white eye and the pose he has with his hand over the eye in promo art which is like Gray Fox's promo art from Mgs1.

The thing is that raises more questions than answers and requires retcons up the wazoo.

Dumb as it is Venom was a medic with his own personality and basically just a very good soldier. I'm not sure if he lost his memory after the accident or if the hypnosis erased his memories but it is probably a little of column A and a lot of column B.

Of course he had his own personality?

First thing BB does when he sees an animal is wonder how it'll taste; Venom has a fuckin' zoo and two animal buddies.

BB would have murdered Huey and Skullface in an act of vengeance. Venom lets Huey go and leaves Skullface to die of his injuries.

Venom is quiet because he's fucking traumatized and probably dissociative, or schizophrenic. Mental illness will kill a person's personality like that. The guy literally has two personalities inside his head... that would screw anybody up.

But how could Venom be both Gray Fox and "Big Boss"? Venom ate rockets and died at the end of Metal Gear 1, while Gray Fox lived to see the next two sequels. Also, I'm pretty sure that if Venom were Gray Fox, Solid Snake would have thought that Gray Fox was the leader of Outer Heaven, not Big Boss.

The difference only really shows once you finish the game because Venom snake has been brainwashed to believe he is BB so the way he acts is how he and the other basic members of Motherbase would think a legendary soldier like BB would act humble forgiving, heroic

Venomedic was just a normal person with his own personality, just very loyal to Big Boss.
And he was never the same as Big Boss, not even AS Big Boss.

In V he is what he thought Big Boss is like, not what he actually is like. Big Boss is an asshole and would surely not make a zoo out of his base and adopt lil nignogs to teach them how to read just to let them go again. He acts like he thought his idol would act, in his deluded mind.

Would Big Boss feel bad about gunning down his dying infected comrades?

Yes probably, he might even have taken them in but with the sole purpose of making fighters out of them, nothing else.

The real Big Boss did adopt nig war orphans in MG2, difference is they were going back to the battlefield when they grew up

Yeah I don't know man. Look up PythonSelkan on YT. Some of the stuff they found out or noticed is compelling but they are Frank Jaeger fanboys when it comes to theories about him.

IIRC they explain the discontinuity between mg1 and mg2 with 'gray fox just vanishes when you rescue him because he goes back to being venom i.e. It was all an act and he was never actually 'captured'.

There was no Venom Snake. There was no Skull Face. Dissociative Identity Disorder and Dissociative Amnesia.

This is a surprisingly good thread.

Only 10/10 part of it was the qt's

youtube.com/watch?v=qK8LfZAOqKs

>that disarmament tape
He, along with Solid, were the only ones who truly wished for peace. Too bad Venom was too blind by loyalty to see what kind of man BB became.

What ever happened to the Ruse Cruise that people were talking about?

Its more dead than The Boss

Nothing. What happened was just an interview with Kojima about movies. It was actually interesting.

we need a mgs set between mgsv and mg1 showing how venom built outer heaven and his conflict with big boss
heck he's literally in outer heven at the end of mgsv

>qt
>cropped hair

Yes, and?

Is MGS V worth it now if i just want a afgani war mission simulator?

I guess, you never ever encounter the Mujaheddin though which is lame, even though you do multiple missions to help them out

There's no actual war in-game like MGS4. It's just an empty land with russians patrolling checkpoints

I can't believe they didn't add in any combat between factions in the maps, we're supposed to believe these Russians and PMC's are paid to sit around, guard a prisoner occasionally, and wait to get shot/kidnapped by Big Boss

His personality was pretty sparse for the player's projection/agency, but the game makes it clear he's a lot more sentimental than Big Boss.

Ultimately he willingly sticks with the mantle and helps Big Boss with Outer Heaven (dying there in his place) but how enthusiastic he was about Big Boss's plans is fairly ambiguous.

Boss is canonically a 5'10 manlet

Venom is Big Boss.

He smirked after listening to the 'truth' tape and smashed the mirror which I think symbolises him rejecting his true self and embracing his 'Big Boss' identity fully, even knowing that it's a ruse.

For all the shit in MGSV I think that this is pretty good visual storytelling. I just wish it wasn't so poorly written. It's painfully obvious that Kojima just wants to be a filmmaker and never flourished as a writer beyond scenario design and 'big picture' ideas.

>short hair
>attractive
t. Low-T community

this

Basically just a hypnotized puppet afaik

The unfinished state of the game is most obvious in how sparse and repetitive the open world is. Sandbox design was a mistake IMO. Stealth games always work best in carefully designed enclosed environments. Quasi sandboxing like in Hitman would've worked best especially given that the mission based structure was used and if the missions were long and involved instead of the same 4 objectives over and over it would also eliminate the fucking waiting around for or inside helicopters.

but user, you get to fire that hard to control heli minigun if you decide to land in a hot zone, then get shot down in seconds

>He smirked after listening to the 'truth' tape and smashed the mirror which I think symbolises him rejecting his true self and embracing his 'Big Boss' identity fully, even knowing that it's a ruse.
That much is obvious. I'm just saying, we don't know how deeply he thought or felt about Outer Heaven specifically or how active he was in the decision-making. We just know he turned out to be loyal.

and if you don't get shot down in seconds then snake just gets killed in seconds. So many great design decisions.

and to think he wants to make death stranding open world too, I hope he takes some lessons from the horizon zero dawn people since they seem to love him so much.

I wish GTA had never existed so open world as a game design never became popular

Given the whole guilt trip he has regarding Paz he obviously retains his own personality.

Open world games are much older than that though, they'd been popular before and it was inevitable they'd be popular again.

the time in which he smirks and when he smashes the mirror isn't the same. When he smashes the mirror he's already evil and diamond dogs isn't diamond dogs anymore, because he's let kaz turn him into a demon because kaz is a bitter, revenge fueled piece of shit with no redeeming value by that point. The only reason it doesn't happen sooner is because ocelot was always there during the phantom pain incident being the level headed angel on venom's shoulder.

The GTA series is by far the most popular instance of open world games, and Kojima himself was very jealous/interested in the series, so likely was heavily influenced to make it open world thanks to GTA

Nah, it was inevitable due to the freedom of approach that grew from game to game.

I remember that article where Kojima was sad after seeing GTA V because he said MGSV would never live up to it.

Yeah, those are good points.

Is Kojima proof you should never go full westaboo?

The timing may be different but it occurs consecutively to the viewer and has the same thematic effect through the visuals regardless though.

>Venom is quiet because he's fucking traumatized and probably dissociative, or schizophrenic.

That and Kiefer Sutherland costs a lot to get into the recording booth.

Speaking off, didn't Kojima helped them with a few design choices in Killzone 2?

>one of the few who liked his voice with BB based on the trailer
>turns out his lines in the trailer were 95% of his lines

What a fucking waste

>he's let kaz turn him into a demon
There's no indication of this, though. In fact, the game implies he and Venom actually part ways given that Venom aligns with Big Boss and Outer Heaven in spite of what Miller and Ocelot predict and Miller's hatred for Big Boss.

GZ did it well. Compact, dense sandboxes are the way to go. Though I feel like the sweet spot are 'wide-linear' areas like in MGS3 and 4, since they can also keep the narrative focused.

He thought he was actually Big Boss right up until he learned the truth. After listening to the tape and smashing the mirror, Venom decided to continue living as the public face of Big Boss but on his own terms rather than just as a brainwashed puppet.

Absolutely this. MGS 1-4 had branching paths and some backtracking but it was designed in a way that got you from set piece to set piece in an organized way at a good pace. I'm not against games going open world as a rule, but MGS makes no sense as an open world game. I don't even think it should have been a collection of Ground Zeroes-type bases like some people say. It should have just been like it always has been. Mother Base and that damn helicopter should have existed only in cutscenes.

Were Ocelot and Miller friends with Venom or did the just see him as a tool of the real Big Boss?

Does Quiet resent Big Boss for what he did to the man she came to respect, Venom, and made it that they couldn't be together in the end?

Who cares? He was a stepping stone and the first victim of Solid Snake's pain train.

Wait I'm confused. I completed mgsv for the first time yesterday and had managed to avoid the major spoiler of venom's real identity even after all this time. If that's the case what happens to Venomedic and diamond dogs following the events of mgsv? I'm not particularly up to speed with Metal Gear lore unfortunately

Still doesn't change the fact that the real Big Boss, the man herald as the greatest solider ever, went out like a bitch to a can of hair-spray and a cigarette lighter.

They get absorbed into Outer Heaven. Big Boss leaves Outer Heaven to Venom and forms Foxhound. Then MG1 happens.

What happens to outer heaven in the end? And venom for that matter. Is that ever explained?

Venom acts as Big Boss and gets killed by Solid. Then OH was blown up by military.

Read the plots of MG1 and MG2, you literally dismantle both incarnations of Outer Heaven.

Big Boss sends snake to kill Venom and destroy Outer Heaven. Its the plot of Metal Gear 1

>Ayran

Bullshit, he actually built a sustainable and influential nation state, that's the least Ayran thing in history.

It was fucking destroyed in MG1.

Its Aryan, user.
Ayran is a drink which is made by adding water to yogurt.

Apparently he was less expensive than Hayter.

Shit taste there son.

And her friend.

I'm still correct in that context.

I enjoyed visiting Mother Base and seeing all your dudes desu

even more so with infinite heaven which adds more base customization and adds events

Short hair is cool. It just doesn't work on her that well.

That doesn't make any sense, though. The story is the same as always: Big Boss expects Snake to fuck up but he doesn't and Outer Heaven bites the dust. The only change is that Venom dies in place of Big Boss getting wrecked but surviving.

>still can't play the singleplayer with my online waifu

I will never finish this game until this is possible.

FOXHOUND already existed before Big Boss left the Patriots. He abandons it and then reassumes command.

You're acting like Kojima was planning to have Venom around since he wrote MG1 and 2. That is what happened in the new canon, and it is hardly the worst of retcon writing the series has seen.

So whatever happened with that whole Caramel Death Stranding is Silent Hills thing? Those threads just dissappeared after e3 ended

No, I'm interpreting the story with what it gives us and with the aim of as little unnecessary retcons as possible.

The game doesn't give any evidence at all that Big Boss and Venom were at odds with each other.

>tattoos

it's shit

>let me shit it up with anime
Kill yourself loser

Miller didn't know...

Didn't Miller find out at the end?

I didnt mean that Big Boss wanted him dead, but FOXHOUND gets ordered to take care of Outer Heaven, and Big Boss, being in charge of FOXHOUND, had to send someone and sends Snake

>"After Miller discovered Venom Snake's identity as a phantom of Big Boss to act as a decoy on the world stage at an unknown period of time after Afghanistan, he felt utterly betrayed and gave up on his former friend, declaring that he would make his phantom and his son stronger in order to send him to Hell. Miller continued to play his part for some time but eventually left Diamond Dogs, in spite of Ocelot's warning that they would one day become enemies if he did."

he's the best guy in peacewalker

Oh, right.

He also has GREEN eyes.
He did. Go through all the scenes with Quiet, and you get to see the type of person he is. I also love the fact that after he finds out EXACTLY what was going on he gives that knowing smile. That was a pretty Boss moment. It's the same smile that Mad's character in Death Stranding makes. This year's Playstation Experience should be interesting to watch.

Venom is Big Boss. They are both Big Boss. Big Boss is two people.

The 'real' Big Boss doesn't die until he commits suicide making up with his 'brother' Solid Snake. Big Boss would have outlived Solid Snake had he never shown up to the cemetery. Spoilered in case someone here hasn't played MGS4 and want to do so without having the ending spoiled.

Death Stranding is a bridge to more than just one game. It's a bridge to so much more. The information is right in front of your EYES.

He does in fact die from his encounter with Snake in MG2. He just gets revived and later is stitched together out of clone bits.

There is an indication of it though, kaz explicitly says he's gonna use venom (and eventually snake) to get back at big boss. it's not far fetched to say he led him down a path of destruction, considering he was basically trying to do that for a huge portion of the TPP incident.
Ocelot outright says he's leaving and going back to help real BB. Venom inexplicably becomes a monster when all we're left to assume is that kaz stayed to help him, then obviously abandoned him at some point before MG1. The cutscene to me shows venom isolated and lost. looking into a mirror trying to reflect.

At the end of the day it's all head canon. I don't mean to argue that i'm right in any way, because we can't 100% explain it either way because it's clearly all left up to interpretation no matter what.

Best Snake. It's not even close.

good taste

This

>doesn't say shit the entire fucking game
>literally BB`s fucking bitch
>good character

Why? There was nothing to do except punching some of your soldiers and a fucking shower

Emerald Hound > everyone else
That said the selection to choose from is downright mint af.

He's A+ in everything, other soldiers might have an S in one thing but are worse in everything else.