FNV

How do I put this basically enough? It's a philosophical theory, the kind you might encounter if you took time to read some books. The fundamental premise is to envision history as a sequence of "dialectical" conflicts.
Each dialectic begins with a proposition, a thesis... which inherently contains, or creates, its opposite - an antithesis. Thesis and antithesis. The conflict is inevitable.
But the resolution of the conflict yields something new - a New Vegas Thread - eliminating the flaws in each, leaving behind common elements and ideas

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/user/ClassyManIAm
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Not fallout related, but that really makes you think, unironically.

For a rugged warlord living in the middle of a wasteland and tribals, the model used looks to pristine.

Not really. It's just Hegel and frankly it's bullshit. Hegel was wrong and his historical philosophy was laughable, and it quickly got even more bastardized, so nowdays, we can pretty much thank the existence of SJW's for this shit.

Same. I had to google half of those words and i'm still thinking really hard about what it means.

>siding with a LARPer with a brain tumor instead of immortal Howard Hughes

>Hegel was wrong and his historical philosophy was laughable
when your philosophy changes the course of history, being "wrong" ceases to be a relevant point.
It most surely isn't "laughable"

but that's exactly what I'm thinking
SJW were born as a movement in the ideological vacuum of post modernism, they took commonly accepted things like tolerance, women rights and so on and went crazy with them
then immediately you had the altright rise up as the antithesis

so now I'm just waiting on the synthesis to happen already so we can move on to something else

there will be no syntesis. "SJWs" will simply win.
also, the alt-right is so retarded that they DESERVE to lose

I dunno, I don't think the alt-right will see mainstream victory, but I don't think the far-left crowd will be as massively successful as you think.

Alt-right will implode when the babyboomers die off, leaving them incapable of swaying anything with their votes. The synthesis we're waiting for is just the Republican party.

>when your philosophy changes the course of history, being "wrong" ceases to be a relevant point.
Actually, it's precisely then where your philosophy being wrong starts to be real fucking big problem. Because if big but wrong philosophy starts to act itself out on the world, it's when people start dying and cultures start falling apart. I know this is not directly Hegel's fault, the responsibility goes far more to Marx than him, but still. If you want to enforce a philosphy to shift history, you better make double sure that it's not absolute pile of drivel, because otherwise, people will be getting killed for it.

>It most surely isn't "laughable"
There is always a thin line between something being terrifying, and something being funny. But otherwise, yes. It's actually a pretty fucking stupid philosophy, and it was from the start. It's really not particularly sophisticated, it's honestly pretty self-contradictory, it's all over silly and clearly not going to lead to anything good.

>SJW were born as a movement in the ideological vacuum of post modernism,
The situation is slightely more complicated than that. Most importantly, SJW and all Marxist doctrines were born of the ASSUMPTION OF INHERENT CONFLICT. They are attempting to force the Hegelian dialectic into reality even when there isn't one, at least not significant enough one.
That is the problem. They assume dialectics and their bastardized form, conflict theory, to be the absolute driving force of social world, even when they aren't: so they are trying intentionally to create them, to force them.

>then immediately you had the altright rise up as the antithesis
That is not an anti-thesis, that is just fucking action and reaction. Go and insult someone and he'll probably start growing resentful of you: do it enough and he'll punch you.
That is not Hegelian dialectics, that is just basic causality.

Man, I was really surprised then I encountered Cezar for the first time. Hated the Legion from get go, but he made me change my opinion.

...

>there will be no syntesis. "SJWs" will simply win.
They won't. But it's entirely possible that they will take a lot of people and a lot of our own civilization with them to the grave. They are destructive, but not creative: they will cause damage until something snaps but once shit starts hitting the real fan, they will quickly fizzle out. It's just that by that point, it might be too late.
>also, the alt-right is so retarded that they DESERVE to lose
But this is kinda the fucking problem, exactly why I'm saying the whole Hegelian dialectic shit is ABSOLUTE ABHORENT BULLSHIT. Because if you subscribe to it, you naturally assume that it's all just one giant binary opposition. Left and alt-right: two natural, inherent forces, a thesis, and an anti-thesis.

Except that is just wrong. Alt-right are left in a different dress. They really are: the commit the exact same cardinal sins. It's just different flavor of the same thing. And they are both wrong: they are just people who lost sight of common sense and proper feedback. They are not teleological forces of the Principles of History: two necessary oppositions that need to clash, and then reach synthesis.

They are just bunch of morons, on both sides, that should have never existed in the first place. There is plenty of space outside of this false absolution dichotomy.

His philosophy's shit and his brain tumor is so bad that even he buys into his own bullshit. Case closed.

Anyway, what's gonna happen to the East Coast now that the Commonwealth is set to become its equivalent of the NCR?

>Actually, it's precisely then where your philosophy being wrong starts to be real fucking big problem.
ok, let me put it another way.
How do you define if a philosophy is "right or wrong". (no joking or shitposting here, I really want to listen to your "thesis")

>t's really not particularly sophisticated
Agreed. But any reasoning system is a simplification of reality. We will always be hold back by the limits of our minds and our languages. It's all semantics, in the end. "Metaphysics".

>That is not an anti-thesis, that is just fucking action and reaction. Go and insult someone and he'll probably start growing resentful of you: do it enough and he'll punch you.
it BECOMES an anti-thesis when people start organizing to combat a specific thesis, which is what happened.

>Browse Sup Forums
>See a Fallout 4 thread
>All is retarded shitposting and faggots sucking Todd Howard's dick
>Go fuck off to facebook
>Return to Sup Forums
>See New Vegas thread
>Arguing about Hegelian Philosofy

I really love you New Vegas posters, never change you handsome devils.

what are you talking about?
the Commonwealth was nuked at the end

Regardless of what happens, the next Bethesda fallout will still look like the bombs fell a week ago and have wacky illogical settlements

No one cares about Fallout 4's "lore" Todd including yourself and Bethesda considering you motherfuckers can't even read the lore already previously established.

I actually like 3.

>being this delusional into thinking that the alt-right will ever die off when the refugee crisis is still on going,it might not affect America that much but it will affect Europe and America will keep a strong opinion against refugees for this very reason

The BoS is in charge of the capital wasteland even after you blow up the Prydwen and the minutemen aren't quite the NCR. They never said they wanted to make a government bureacracy they're just a militia of regular people helping each other.

Even fictional tyrannical figures want you to read a fucking book.

Roman isn't even that annoying compatef yo Garvey considering you can literally call him right after you accept hanging out with him and cancel with no hit to your s-link.

Hegel was basically a soft proto-Nazi, my dude. The SJW connection here is not really tenable. Maybe you're thinking Hegel -> Marx -> Frankfurt school, and making that connection, but that's too thin to really be meaningful. You might as well say that Kant was a proto-SJW.

Literally no one but mods like 4 and /vg/ because they're waifu loving faggots.

I hope that fucking /vg/autist doesn't show up.

In fact, next Bethesda Fallout will be fully a prequel FPS set in the Resource Wars and you will meet the male Sole Survivor as a wacky cameo and discover he was actually a Zetan all the time, thus explaining why Shaun and all the synths were so retarded in FO4.

>No one cares about Fallout 4's "lore"

youtube.com/user/ClassyManIAm

You will receive a word that another settlement needs your help.

That's autism

While that's true, the bulk of the Capital Brotherhood's leadership was on board at time, and the Commonwealth is miles away from DC. Without the Prydwen, mounting a counter-offensive against the Commonwealth would be most difficult. Odds are, by the time the next Brotherhood expedition marches into the Commonwealth, the Minutemen will have grown from a scattered militia into a proper military force.

I love how in New Vegas there's a clear conflict between political ideologies instead of some black and white shit. Like how the NCR despite being the closest thing to a liberal society (liberal in the classical sense and not the leftist bastardisation) despite how the government is corrupt and the people are suffering while the Legion is brutal and unforgiving but strives to keep its own citizens safe and in a way wants to improve man into improving himself instead of being completely reliant on technology. Also House despite being authoritorian he's also libertarian when it comes to economic policies.

shit, I need to double check my posts a lot more when it comes to using unnecessary words
ah well, you get the point

>How do you define if a philosophy is "right or wrong". (no joking or shitposting here, I really want to listen to your "thesis")
That is of course not a simple question and it does not have a simple answer. There is a whole bunch of different factors to consider, because philosophy serves simultaneously descriptive, explicatory/predictive and functional roles. And each of these roles requires different means of evaluation. Descriptive role needs to be able to account and not contradict empiric knowledge. The same goes for the explanation/predictive role, but there you also have to consider for internal consistency, elegance, flexibility. The functional aspect is even more complicated, because in that case you really have to consider A) what the philosophy aims to change or achieve, and then study if it's really going to do what it claims to do, and B) if what it claims to do is something even desirable.

But in case of Hegel, it starts falling apart on the very fist levels: descriptive and explicative. It actually fails to account and provide reasonable evidence that it's theory of historical dynamics are really functional, it's extremely reductive and internally inconsistent, because it actually fails to explain how history moves from dialectic to synthetic and then back to dialectic level. It actually does not make sense. Also the binarity that it assumes just... does not happen.

Caesar's understanding of Heglian dialetics is high school philosophy tier and his understanding of ancient Rome is even worse.

He's that guy you know who is slightly smarter than average but talks and acts like he is the smartest motherfucker on the planet while really lacking true understanding.

Legion philosophy is pants on head retarded and Caesar's refusal to understand that more than two ideologies can compete at the same time will/is/was his downfall. Even if the Legion wins NV it's still going to fall apart in the long run.

There's probably still plenty of people at the citadel since it's a huge fortress but they've been neutered in regards to air superiority since tons of vertibirds blow up in the commonwealth. Someone like the lone wanderer just needs to kick their asses like the enclave now.

Basically Sup Forums intellectuals, then?

>Like how the NCR despite being the closest thing to a liberal society
Actually, it's house and free Vegas what is most close to a classically liberal society, focused on individuals freedom. It's NCR that is heavily authoritarian, and Legion that is classical tyranny.

>Hegel was basically a soft proto-Nazi, my dude.
That is like saying that Christ was a soft-proto-Nazi. His thoughts were among many other things that DID inspire Nazi movement, and of course, he was part of the same discourse and general broader discussion. However, his connection to Nazi philosphers was MUCH thinner than his connection to Marx: Hegel advocated historical teleology and principal binarity of history, but not predestination (which was core of Nazi ideology), nor rejection of classical values. Hegel believed things will sort themselves out naturally, not that a single person has the right to take history into his hands and dictate absolutes.

It's FAR more tenable to see the direct line between Hegel to Marx and through Marx to all modern left-wing ideology than it ever is to see relation between Hegel and Nazi ideologies. Kant, unlike Hegel, does not have a direct line of argumentation going through the entirety of history. Most modern SJW philosophy STILL RELIES on Hegelian philosophy of history, albeit modified. That is a simple fact.

The "alt right" (this term is bullshit btw) will never implode when the left still gets even more regressive and politicians continue to shit on their own culture and country they represent.

And the lgbtqdyrbdu community sure doesn't help the left.

Yes. Writers in Obsidian strive for showing the complexity of the human nature while retarded Bethesda's writer Emil Pagliarulo excels and surpasses himself each time in delivering bland, monothematical, one-dimensional characters, factions and entities.

See the minutemen, supermutants, raiders, gunners, dragons, thalmor, vampires... Nothing but "hurr durr, I'm the bad guy, grrr!"

And it's a shame, because should Bethesda ditch that faggot, the quality of their work would immediately improve. Maybe even send Todd to live down a bridge. With a concrete block tied by his neck and underwater.

There are no CL citizens.

remember the real problems started with the french revolution.

I think the game does a poor job at making the choices look equally good, which might be a good thing or a bad thing.
Legion looks horrible if you don't demonstrate why it's fit for the post apocalyptic world.
It's simply far too immoral from a modern perspective without being properly shown to work better than the imitations of old world democracy and ancap memes.
You get told how Legion is good at protecting it's roads, and that's it.

I think much more valuable in the legion is the fact it got rid of tribes and created a new identity, but it did nothing any regular player can identify as valuable with it.
Legion was a warmongering faction with no real core shown, no Rome, no roads built, not order spread.
Sure, that was suppose to come, but you hear so much more about the NCR and how there is actual order in it and shit.

NCR needed to be way worse, corruption? Please, they should have went with the older and more relevant traps democracy falls for, the once shown in ancient Greece.
Demagogery, tragedy of the commons, incompetence, anarchy.

let's get right to it, then

To be fair, all the knowledge that remains of ancient Rome was probably a history book and gladiator movies.

That's a bingo!

Whatever you thinkg about Hegelian philosophy you gotta admit NV writing is a hundred years beyond anything Bethesda ever made. Pic related's story actually made me chocked up in the end.

NCR wasn't a real democracy until Tandi died. She was basically the Queen of NCR with no term limits that got elected for decades upon decades by the people. They became weaker after her death.

Damn, I forgot to adress your other points. Sorry.

>Agreed. But any reasoning system is a simplification of reality.
There is a difference between absolute limitation of human mind, and committing grave simplification that can be easily discovered even within the restraints of human mind and language possibilities. Let's say I'd say:
"Religion is the source of all evil, it has done nothing else but held us back."
Or just to have both sides covered: "Atheism unavoidably leads to nihilism and all atheists will unavoidably condone or directly participate in inhuman actions such as were those of Nazi Germany or Soviet Union."

You yourself should see how that is a simplification that is not justified by the statement that "any reasoning system is inherently simplified", right?

No philosophy will be absolute, without a doubt. But here is a the thing: Hegel was actually dumb enough to think that his philosophy IS absolute. So did Marx. So that ALONE is a clear proof that they were wrong: if they could think that they managed to provide definitive answers - they were ignorant of what you just said, and that alone throws all of their work into question.

>it BECOMES an anti-thesis when people start organizing to combat a specific thesis,
It's not an anti-thesis. It's not necessary and it's not transcendent, both of which are conditions of Hegelian dialectics. Contradiction is not a Hegelian anti-thesis. Especially when it's not really even a contradiction: actually alt-right just confirms what Left is claiming. They really are just two sides of the same coin, not to absolute opposite historical motions.
Alt-right does not even fucking counter radical left's arguments. In fact in majority, they accept them. They draw different conclusions (when left claims that the world is inherently racist and oppressing blacks, and draws conclusion that we should oppress whites to balance it out, alt right simply says "no, we should oppress blacks even more!"

>a country is only as strong as it's governing body

How did you come to that conclusion?

House is a capitalist and while he has no problem with people having their own businesses on his property as long as they pay taxes, he's still an authoritorian figure who intends to rule Vegas with an iron first. The NCR might look like a dictatorship for the simple reason that it had presidents who ruled for decades but it's still a neoliberal society but it gives more freedom to its people, especially women and you have caravans working independently where some of them even control the government.
The Legion is tyrannical but you could see like certain facist dictatorships in the past it strives for the self-improvement of man and to leave materialistic desires that keep him back like chems, gambling and sodomy behind.

I cried like a little bitch with his final entry and I'm not even a bit ashamed of admiting it.

Remember, even if his knowledge of Rome was flawed, and it was, he used it as a "blueprint", a broad concept, he didn't attempt to creat a fac-simile of it.
If anything the NCR was much more closer to the old roman republic, wealthy landlords, a somewhat oligarchical system with elections

It's a damn complex ending to choose in the end, you understan endings like House standing his ground and making New Vegas independent but with no NCR support anywhere that isn't the strip is gonna be a shithole and it will become in vault city 2.0. But the NCR spread so thin they barely keep control, not to mention all the corrupt leaders and nepotism. I like going wild card just for the few moments where I control everything in new vegas before ending slide courier shits the bed.

>rule vegas with an iron fist
>can't even bring himself to send securitrons in to gun down Benny in the tops

I don't think you understand the implications of ruling with an iron fist.

>sodomy behind
Only if you got caught, remember "legionaries pilling each other" plus Aurelius woman's wear.

>materialistic desires that keep him back like chems, gambling and sodomy behind.

And scientifical advances, plus, turning people into slaves and breeding stock for no good reason other than existing.

I think they tried with the whole Bitter Springs thing. Kinda fell flat for me since it never sounded like it was an official operation, and was just a clusterfuck like My Lai. NCR had much better shadiness in FO2, what with the Bishops/Raiders/Vault City subplot.

> "It's been a gift to me, at the end of it all, to behold innocence."
>"Goodbye, Zion."

>Legion was a warmongering faction with no real core shown, no Rome, no roads built, not order spread.
Caesar made it clear that the Legion isn't stable until he takes over Vegas and makes it his Rome, otherwise it's just a horde that would fracture when he dies.

If Honest Hearts is so great then why didn't Joshua get an ending slide in 50% of the endings? Did Avelon honestly think that nobody would choose helping the Sorrows?

Vegas more or less governs itself without House having to step in. As long as people pay the entrance fee and don't shoot the place up there isn't much the robots and families can't handle. House is just an overseer of sorts.

I just realized I failed that man when I took the Sorrows to fight the White-Legs. Forgive me Randall.

His logs were the best part of new vegas for me.
The other part I really liked was the vault where they killed the overseer periodically.
>...
>So you're saying we take over by force?
>We still got the majority.
>Except we won't be voting, they will fight us.

He's a businessman, obviously he wouldn't want to ruin his trust with the other casinos if he stormed through the Tops because that would mean breaking his contract with them, or you might as well say violating the NAP. But he probably might've done if he had the upgraded securitron army from the start though.

thanks for the responses, user.

I still disagree on many points, but sadly I have to go now. Would like to waste more time here.

Nice actually having an interesting discussion on Sup Forums for once...

Yes, I wanted to go full Kazuma Kiryu and take down the white legs alone just so the Sorrows woulnd't lose Zion and keep their innocence

>House is a capitalist and while he has no problem with people having their own businesses on his property as long as they pay taxes
That's what he's telling us right? And then he sends death squads to the Kings because they didn't kill all NCR refugees on sight. Also punishes Primm when they ask the soldiers next door for help because they're riddled with raiders and House is doing fuck all to help them.

House being impartial is a meme, the guy is petty as shit. Not that different from Moore imo.

You fail him either way if you do not defend Zion with righteous anger, like he says... In the end, the loss of inocence by the Sorrows has to come, I honestly think that whipping out the white legs is the best choice.

House is covered by his securitrons but as the Omertas dealing with the Legion and Benny going rogue have shown, you can't have absolute trust of them.

Is that the one filled with ghouls? the overseer room was locked tight and filled with turrets

And by them, I mean the families.

May God help your tainted soul.

I only found that vault in my 3rd or so playthrough, great storytelling.

Randall knew something like that was going to happen. The point is to enjoy and cherish innocence while it lasts, and to hope that you become a good person when you lose it becoming an adult.

>Seeing the Courier convince Joshua Graham to spare Salt-Upon-Wounds, the Sorrows learned that retribution could be tempered by mercy. Though he despaired at the Sorrows' loss of innocence, Daniel took some small consolation in the Courier's lesson, and prayed it would take root.

Randall would have killed the White Legs and spared Salt-Upon-Wounds. Daniel would have evacuated, then reloaded the game and done the same.

Randall Clarke killed a lot of people and still kept his "innocence" in his own words. Sorrows can kill people, doesn't mean that they're ruined forever. What I took away from Randall's story is that you can go through a shit ton of pain and violence and still come out a good person.

Those families wouldn't have the balls to try anything against the rocket army securitrons after the story of NV is done after the Omertas plan failed and everything. They'd get torn apart.

no, it's full of bugs, I think, it's the one where the last survivors kill themselves after finally escaping and you find the tape in front of the vault
under the overseer office there is a chamber where you sit, get shown a movie, than you get attacked by robots

You're thinking of Vault 34.

Vault 11 is the one with the crazy social experiment. It's near Helios One.

You are welcome. Have a nice day.

He kills the Kings because they were defiant against House. Also where the hell was it ever said that he wanted them to kill NCR citizens when they are his prime source of income?
>Also punishes Primm when they ask the soldiers next door for help because they're riddled with raiders and House is doing fuck all to help them.
No he sends securitrons there to protect the town in the expense of taxing the residents. It isn't much different to what the NCR would've done, only difference is that the securitrons are much better at fending them off

>Vault 11
that was some truly fucked up shit

What was his problem?

THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL THE BEAR AND THE BULL

He wanted to crash civilisation with no survivors.

THE DIVIDE

Was he a big guy? I have yet to play Lonesome Road so I have no idea about him other than being cut from the main game and courier's past history.

Is there anyone who actually sided with the Powder Gangers without using sex mods?

He's literally the strongest chracter in the game, even stronger than Lanius

Avellone really wanted to suck his own dick

(You)

I've never actually ever done a run where I don't help Ringo, what happens if I go full outlaw?

I sided with powder gangers but found them so annoying I genocided them anyway.

You kill every named chracter in Goodsprings except Chet. Yes, even Doc Mitchell

The only way The Kings survive a House playthrough is by killing the NCR people who are secretly helping the refugees. That may have been what that user was referring to?

didn't know when to call it quits.

Fuck no the writing was severely lacking for them but one time I did somehow manage to get reputation up to neutral amd helped the ones in that vault.

Is their a way to stop People from Exploding with Bloody Mess ? Can i do something with in the .ini ?