OK Sup Forums. Time to settle this once and for all.
Was what Arthas did to cull Stratholme right?
I think it was. If he didnt kill those people. They would have been a part of the scourge.
Jaina broke her promise to him while Arthas kept her locket close to him at all times, keeping his side of the promise.
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Arthas was right however if shit never went down as it did Azeroth would never have leveled up and would have been destroyed when Deathwing attacks
It was too extreme. Dude has an army with him. He could have forcibly displaced the peasants, hauled them off and gave them a proper screening process for the plauge.
BUT NUUU I HAVE TO KILL THEM NOW AND PROTECT MY PEOPLE LIKE A GOOD KING
Garrosh is the guy who did nothing wrong
You're forgetting Daelin Proudmoore
Nothing more than a racist.
And Garrosh wasnt?
And that screening could take months for a city of thousands
and Mal'ganis was already inside.
This kind of. Except for the retard spoiler part.
No matter how right it might have been, Arthas was brash and over-zealous like the spoiled shitfuck that he is and did not allow a clear headed decision to be made by his mentor, a more experienced Paladin.
my choice is he'd be in the right if he stayed, but since he listened to the sneaky demon and fell into the lich king's hands he fucked up
unless you want to spin it so that the forsaken/all the death knights are needed to save areroth since they've been in raids to kill the big bads then everything he did was right
Nope. Garrosh was a nationalist. He was fine with everyone in the horde until they started turning on him for literally no reason
Garrosh was racist against the Alliance though.
He saw the horde as weak and diluted with the other races. He was Orc-Hitler.
>Uther's decision was to run away crying instead
like a hero
>Kills / fights leaders who led their races to Kalimdor and away from Annihilation.
He at the very fucking least, did EVERYTHING wrong from a political angle.
Can't be racist against a racist aggressor :)
Feelings that weren't expressed until they started rebelling against for literally no reason. Cata garrosh was absolutely the best warchief since Ogrim Doomhammer
>Was what Arthas did to cull Stratholme right?
It was the right course of action from a moral standpoint since those guys were fucked anyway but it was still the wrong choice to make for Arthas. Arthas simply had no way to convince his closest allies, Uther and Jaina, to agree with what he wanted to do. By choosing to cull Stratholme, he alienated the allies he needed to defeat Mal'Ganis. As a result, he found himself having to rely on Frostmourne to beat him which led to his corruption. Thus Arthas made the wrong choice.
What he should have done here is that he should have simply put Uther in charge of the outpost and retreat home with Jaina in tow. Uther would then get wrecked by Mal'Ganis and ask for the help of King Terenas. Arthas could then take a big army to crush Mal'Gaynis with Uther's help and without relying on Frosthomo.
>Political upheavil because you aren't a green human
>Get challenged for leadership of the horde.
>Decide to slay that fucker in mok'gora instead of having a conventional duel where your political enemies can crawl away and forment a rebellion
He lead the horde exactly the way a Draenor Orc should lead the horde. Mistakes and all. Garrosh had perhaps the most character development of any single character in all of WoW lore and it was pretty nice right up until writers made him a villain
It doesn't matter if it was right at that point, what really mattered would have been if Arthas had ever arrived to Northrend in the first place. If Uther and Jaina had stuck with him then they could have prevented everything afterwards and had keep human forces together
Garrosh absorbed a God made entirely made of Hatred, how can you defend that?
>Garrosh absorbed a God made entirely made of Hatred, how can you defend that?
If I'm really trying to spin it? Devs confirmed he wasn't corrupted and he created a super weapon that would finish the alliance.
if I'm not trying to spin it? It happened after Blizz decided to turn him into a villain so it was illogical like a lot of the other choices the writers made.
inb4 blizzard gives jaina access to a reality warping wish. with a big fuck you corrupted jaina boss fight in a raid. where right before she dies from her wounds she makes her wish.
Wishing exactly what you posted as reality, therefore keeping azeroth at it's scale level of before vanilla wow. in doing so giving access for the take over of azeroth in a snap of some old gods finger.
Wishing her husbando back.
Well the events that followed pretty much prove that he was in the wrong. The way I see it the entire thing was a trap anyways. The people of Stratholme were going to die anyways the lich king just used it as a means to drive Arthas further down the path to madness. He walked right into it because he was a naive Prince and hadn't been exposed to the horrors of war. They were essentialy grooming him.
Everybody can agree that Blizzard writers are very terrible at their jobs and nobody but the people who hired them know how they actually got the job. If we have to talk about the writers then it needs to be pointed out that everything they made has no direction and motives for every character makes no sense because it seems like they don't know what to do with them.
>TFW Papa Ner'zual will never adopt you
Did you forget how quickly they turned? By the time you even gather up half the populace they'd have already started succumbing and fucking up everyone around them. It'd also happen during the screening process if they ever got that far. You know how hard it would be to keep everything in order for a proper inspection when every third guy turns into a zombie and has to be put down? Not to mention the fact that Mal'Ganis and his army were there fucking shit up as well.
>everyone in the city is infected with a plague that will quickly them against us and has no cure
>we need to purge it or things will get even worse
and uther had the great idea of doing nothing.
Not an issue, Azeroth has been dealing with wild undead for a long time. They were never a threat because they never had a thinking mind behind them. It could easily be handled and you'd end up saving lives in the process
Either way its moot. No, siding with the Lich King was not the correct choice
>Not an issue, Azeroth has been dealing with wild undead for a long time. They were never a threat because they never had a thinking mind behind them. It could easily be handled and you'd end up saving lives in the process
Yeah but this time they were though. Mal'ganis was directly guiding them. And beyond that, the Lich King.
It would be nice if we got Arthas back and together with Jaina as a less reckless, more level-headed guy. I liked Death Knight Arthas a lot because he was confident yet cunning. He never overextended himself like Paladin Arthas did. Wrath kind of shat on his character so it would be nice to get him back just as a good guy now instead of an unfeeling killing machine. Conversely I think Jaina's character improved. I like how got disillusioned about the orcs and now hates them. I hope she gets to have a happy ending.
Uther had the great idea of not walking directly into a trap set by Ner'zhul. Did you not play the rest of the game? The lich king planned for Arthas to purge Stratholme and kill Mal'ganis the whole time. Dude was playing 4d chess.
Arthas did nothing wrong in Stratholme, he did howerever go full retard chasing down Mal'ganis in Northrend.
Strat wasn't the trap, the trap was in Northrend.
literally the only thing arthas did wrong was follow memeganis to northrend
besides that he dindu nuffin
the entire city was already infected, and if he hadnt killed them they would have turned into such a massive undead army that they would have overwhelmed lordaeron
Dont know what game you played but there were not more than 12 houses in that fucking town
Not true. They used Stratholme to drive Arthas insane. Without the purge he would have never have been fucked up enough to chase Mal'ganis to northrend.
It was the biggest city in the kingdom, literally the entire populace was infested, and would have turned into a fighting army for the undead
>12 houses was the biggest city in the kingdom
Uther is an experienced Paladin who's seen some shit. He knew it'd be best not to do anything rash and just retreat so that reinforcements may be assembled, Silver Hand could be consulted, etc. etc.
Fucking infrastructure is important. If one young Paladin just starts burning villages at every sight of serious necromancy, they'd quickly collapse as an order.
The previous chapter they almost get killed and raped by much weaker infected villages. Stratholme was the second largest city in the kingdom. If they tried to face it head on, it would be 100% certain defeat.
>ruin all that fucking character development in Cataclysm that could have turned him into a strong fisted but fair leader
>generic evil dude in MoP muh corruption
Metzen was a mistake
Reminder that the Scarlet Crusade was literally 100% correct and there was no reason for the Alliance to oppose them as much as they did
This is it exactly. You had one paladin who had been in the shit who saw what was coming in Stratholme if they started killing civilians and one paladin who's daddy got him in the army who had no idea what he was in for if he walked into Stratholme. This is what people don't get about this when they say Arthas did nothing wrong.
>Tfw died for absolutely nothing
>being lead by a (literal) demon
>100% correct
Arthas was never insane, everything he did made sense towards his goal of killing Mal'ganis which he thought would end the Scourge.
>Make friends with Undead, gain alliance and overpower the horde. Get at the very least the ghost of Lordaeron and the entire continent back under Alliance territory.
vs.
>Make them be the faggy, edgy Forsaken.
>Grant the Horde a foothold on the continent.
I mean I'm not saying Stormwind wouldn't have innately hated and driven away the Forsaken anyways, but the Scarlet Crusade deadlocked them into it.
>Demon performing the correct action somehow makes it incorrect
>Uther is an experienced Paladin who's seen some shit.
He didn't see that the Plague could infect anybody and be overwhelming.
>He knew it'd be best not to do anything rash and just retreat so that reinforcements may be assembled, Silver Hand could be consulted, etc. etc.
He was wrong.
>Fucking infrastructure is important.
Doesn't matter when everything is gone.
>If one young Paladin just starts burning villages at every sight of serious necromancy, they'd quickly collapse as an order.
Everybody there was going to be a soldier for an undead army, that was the perfect time to do that.
So, answer me, who were we supposed to cheer for in this cutscene? youtube.com
Even tho garrosh did a lot of wrong, he was completely right in this scene. Meanwhile Thrall was cheating.
Uther's experience was entirely against orcs, the Scourge was a completely new threat that he had no idea how to handle.
So why'd he put on the helmet, then? Fuckall else to do?
the plague was new shit, Uther knew nothing about the situation, in fact, Arthas and his men were the only ones who dealt with the plague
Uther knew about orcs and shit, he knew nothing about the effect of the plague and how really fucked the situation was, although questionable, Arthas decision of burning everything up was the correct one, when you don't understand an infectious illness you quarantined first
>Forgetting Sylvanas declaring war on the remnant forces of Lordaeron and all the evil bullshit she'd done since then
Forsaken are the aggressors, it is rightfully the Crusade's land
After Frostmourne took his soul he still wasn't insane, just a soulless dick.
Obviously arthas did the right thing in the grand scheme of things. Anyone who disagrees is an idiot who can't understand morals on a greater level.
Some people seem to think culling stratholme was his turning point but it wasn't at all. His turning point was when he was in nothrend and let his vengeance get the better of him, if you want a more precise moment it was either when he burned his own ships so his men could not go home, or when he turned on muradin so he could claim frostmourne, whichever one happened first i forget the order.
Yeah that's what all the insane shouting was about after Mal'ganis bailed in strat or when he destroyed his own ships so he could sacrifice all of his men, or when he picked up frostmourne even though he knew it was cursed. Yeah that's pretty sane.
>One town raised as the dead means Lordran gets KO'd.
Well ok...
he wasnt even "soulless", he went insane after wandering in the cold of northrend alone, for months
in that time nerzhul probably convinced him of everything
>he still wasn't insane, just a soulless dick
>he wasnt even "soulless"
One of the first things Balnazzar says to him is that his soul is the first one Frostmourne took.
>Literally do what the lich king wants you to do
>He totes did the right thing guys
REEEE DK PLAYERS GET OUT
>The second biggest city on the continent turning means Lordearon falls
Yes you dingus
There really was nothing else to be done. The population was full of the walking dead already, as Arthas had arrived well after the entire city had been consuming infected grain. Mal'Ganis is already in there, going door to door and carting off every new ghoul to his zombie fuckhouse while also burning everything down just because.
If Uther truly believed something else could be done, he wouldn't have pussied off back to the capital while Arthas razed the city. If they pulled back to think of a new plan to save everyone, the only thing that would happen is that Stratholme's entire population would be made into an enormous army and all of Loraderon would have fallen in a matter of days.
This entire situation was specifically engineered by Memeganis and the Lich King as a "fuck the paladin" scenario, anyway.
A. Arthas is forced to purge Stratholme to prevent immediate undead apocalypse and is further driven on his path of vengeance, ultimately giving the Lich King a brand new Death Knight to conquer Lordaeron with.
B. They pull out and let it happen to think of a new plan, Lordaeron gets conquered anyway but much sooner.
Yes, he was right.
>Balnazzar
>BALNAZZAR
You disgust me
>can't understand morals on a greater level
Morals at a greater level would be "victory is worth nothing if we have to throw people under the bus".
Via morals, you'd keep your hands clean and not participate in brutal mercy killings. You'd let forces of Evil do their work and confront them at another time. That's the honorable choice. Morals don't mean "what's the best for our survival".
Given how it ended it's pretty obvious he made the wrong decision. Also the orcs were a bunch of demon worshipping savages that summoned undead also. Either was far more seasoned in any kind of war than Arthas was.
This, and you can't even argue that they couldn't have know about the undead's new organised ways, because mal'ganis fucking immediately shows up and says "yo waddup nigger, I'm mal'ganis and I'm here to zombify the entire fucking city, catch me while you can you blond-haired faggot"
>Just let everybody in the 2nd largest city turn undead and fight you later
>let the enemy build up it's forces to overwhelm you
Atrthas did the right thing, if Uther needed to get his head out his ass.
sorry i get my dreadlords mixed up since they all use one of two models
Either = Uther
Ggvvv
Still a big stretch. You don't know what could have happened if they remained calm and level headed. Could have set up a defensive line in time, consulted allies and mages, called reinforcements from Khaz Modan / Stormwind, or even evacuated Lordaeron.
Far from written in stone.
>We kill Brigitte Abbendis in Wrath
Wasn't he the one Arthas talks to in Lorderon after becoming a Death Knight?
>Could have set up a defensive line in time
Yes that would have worked wonderfully as Mal'ganis was teleporting them out of the city
Yes. One of the missions before Stratholme shows what happens. Even in the same mission it shows he was right.
He fucked over the Blood Elves and had them booted out of/massacred out of Dalaran, a city they built.
He niggered the Trolls because Vol'jin didn't like how he was ruling.
He killed Carine by cheating. Niggered them too despite Tauren being the biggest and most loyal bro's Orcs ever had.
Garrosh was literally an emo faggot bitching about daddy when you meet him. Then turns into a hothead idiot who demands leadership. He's given said leadership and actually does well for awhile, then goes lol evil hypocrite mode and he bitches like a faggot to Thrall about it because.
Garrosh is literally a Nigger. He was given an opportunity to do something, and fucked everything up and blames other people for his failures.
Jaina also knew what happens with the Plague.
>when he destroyed his own ships so he could sacrifice all of his men,
>or when he picked up frostmourne even though he knew it was cursed
I'm not saying it was morally right but they were both logical decisions, he wasn't crazy or unstable. He needed to stop his army from being recalled and he needed extra firepower because they were outnumbered.
That was Tichondrius.
Instead what happened was Arthas became a sleeper agent and did the same exact god fucking damned thing anyways, but with even greater efficiency, because he had a much bigger element of surprise.
At least if he retreated with Uther, Lordaeron could have had a much more solid defense.
I can't believe this is even an argument. I mean sure if you consider the Burning Legion and WoW's story, it was probably the only good outcome, but in and of itself, Arthas was still a stupid little shitkid.
Yes he was had Uther not been a complete total bitch he probably wouldn't have ended up the Lick King.
it was the start of the downfall of Thrall, reminder that Garrosh didn't want to be Warchief (he knew he wasn't made for politics, he was just a warrior) but Thrall imposed the duty on him
he was learning, but when you put a Warrior in charge of an entire horde, then what do you expect? he did what he knew, conquer shit, he saw the threats everywhere, he just wanted his people to be safe
then devs went retarded and Garrosh literally went hitler, it wasn't supposed to be this way (he learning from Saurfang in Wrath, scolding his commander in Cataclysm) but we needed a big bad in the expansion
anyway, Thrall in his heart knew that everything was his fault originally, that's why he's no longer cozy with the elements and Aggra gets fucked by goblins every night
I'm glad they made Khadgar the main focus in every expansion onwards, he's pretty funny and actually gets shit done
Yeah because Uther would have knocked his ass flat and drug him back to Lordaeron by his hair.
i want khadgar to lock me in the meme dungeon and feed me apexis crystals
Jaina didnt know, and the game at least tries to show it, since the villagers turn into undead after jaina leaves to warn uther
before that, arthas & co. thought the infected grain just killed villagers
>Even by it's own post-Cata standards, WoW story is getting worse.
How hard is it to write this shit when you have billions of $$$, honestly?
Fucking 12 YEARS later and you fags still argue about this exact moment EVERY SINGLE TIME
I love it
If Uther had stuck around instead of leaving a city to the undead he would've had a better insight about the plague and the Dreadlord behind it. If Arthas had retreated with Uther Loraeron would still have been lost to the hordes of undead.
>reminder that Garrosh didn't want to be Warchief (he knew he wasn't made for politics, he was just a warrior)
He challenged Thrall in Mak'gora for position of Warchief before the scourge attacked Northrend.
It's more a case of WHY write this shit when you have billions of $$$
It's why notch went on a fucking decade's worth of vacations in a short span. Why fix what isn't broke?
i know metzen gets a lot of shit but the human/undead campaigns in roc are really good
tft was also good
>Jaina also knew what happens with the Plague.
Jaina didn't understand fully what would happen if an entire city turned into undead and started rampaging. That's why I'm saying Arthas should have just put Uther in charge and left. That would show him just how dire the situation could become.
>Magatha got away with murder of a horde leader and now everyone seems to not give a shit
>Alliance fags will defend this
>That's why I'm saying Arthas should have just put Uther in charge and left
Arthas wasn't trying to prove himself right so he could feel smug about it retard
he challenged thrall to lead an invasion of northrend because thrall wanted to be more careful and send scouts to assess the situation first.
AWWWWW SHIT NIGGA
Best mission right there
>Scourgefags will defend this
he was a retarded kid that just learned that his father wasn't a disgrace and wanted to show everyone how strong he was
Thrall also insulted Grom briefly, and he was being retarded "NO WE MUSNT GO TO NORTHREND YET, WE MUST WAIT"
he later learns a lot with Saurfang in Northend, he becomes a competent warrior and leader, but by no means he wanted to be warchief
>Racist
>At the enemy army that you're at a constant war with.
You're fucking retard because that's not the point. Uther didn't believe the situation was so bad that they needed to cull an entire fucking city. He needed to see with his own eyes what would happen if Mal'Ganis had his way so he would be 100% behind Arthas in future battles. Arthas should have said his drivel about purging the city and when Uther objected he should have just put Uther in charge and then left. That would wake him up.
>dwarf campaign will never be finished
>teaser for chapter 4 is still on their site
why is the site even up any more? i figured they would have stopped paying for it by now.