Rank these 4 games in terms of most innovative, most influential, and which holds up the best still

Rank these 4 games in terms of most innovative, most influential, and which holds up the best still.

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SM64 aged like spoiled milk.

also didn't innovate shit.

>doom
>doom
>doom

All seem boring now because they became standards and baselines for future gaming.

Doom for FPS
SM64 for 3D Gaming in General + Platforming
SF2 for Fighting Games
FF7 for RPGs

Over time, of course these standards were built upon and there are much more exciting content available today....but without these games, vidya may have died.

Overall though, Super Mario 64 set the standard for movement in 3D gaming and is probably the most innovative and influential game ever made.

In terms of holding up, SM64 has some outdated mechanics so it may have to go to Doom.

SFII is a giant turd now, but the rest hold up alright.

>innovation

SM64 > Doom > SF2 > FF7

>Influential

SM64 > FF7 = doom > SF2

>holds up

SF2 > Doom > SM64 > FF7

Street Fighter II is probably the most innovative out of those.

FF7 was not influential or innovative at all

Doom, M64 & SF2 are all pretty top tier, but fighters & platformers are kinda quiet these days, while FPS is still all the rage, so if you had to pick one to win influence, Doom wins pretty easily

doom, street fighter (combos alone were huge), ff7, sm64

3D was an inevitability, so sm64 isn't really special or innovative. not to mention nothing really plays like it, which is further proof its legacy is way overblown. same with the 2D games, and most Nintendo games in general.

Half-life2>FF7>Super Mario 64>Doom>Street Fighter

I mean Super Turbo btw, not like the first iteration of SF2 I guess I should used that instead, but the most updated version.

Doom is the only one of these games I played.

I actually was thinking of putting HL2 up there but didn't think it was fair cause it's like like a decade older than them. Maybe HL1 could be put in?

>pic related - the post

ff7 wasn't innovative but it is influental

it introduced limit breaks didn't it? it did something...

Goldeneye would be a better candidate

Hl1 is only relevant due to freeman's mind.

All I play these days are older games. Anything before PS2 fails me 9 times out of 10. I am deciding I am an expert on these matters and anyone saying otherwise is a weeb cocksucker. Id use different games, but these work.

Innovative:
FF7 > Doom > SF2 > SM64

Influential:
FF7 > Doom = SM64 = SF2

Holds up:
SM64 > FF7 < Doom > SF2

The thread can rest.

...

He's right.

>Innovation
doom
SM64
FFVII
SF2
>influential
FFVII
SM64
Doom
SF2
>holds up best
Doom
SF2
SM64=FF7

>FF7 was not influential or innovative at all
It popularized using FMV cut scenes in games instead of rendering them in engine.

if you love doom: js-dos.com/games/doom2.exe.html

FF7 was popular because Sony poured millions behind it for marketing

it wasn't at all influential, it did zero things new
it didn't fucking invent FMV's either

Would you say combos in hack and slash and bet em ups could be traced to SF2 even?

Youd better back that up with some facts son.

>it did zero new things
true

>wasn't influential
retard

yeah, now that you mention it. doom didn't really do anything new, since wolfensteinn existed previously.

I agree with this,

Though I think Doom only does
not hold up because you might as well get doom 2 and mods if you wanna play that kind of game.

Though OP should have used the original wolfenstein, not doom.

DOOM > Street Fighter II > SM64 > FF7

Not him.

No.

sure why not.

It didn't have to invent them to influence the market to follow suit and use them.

samefaggot, FF7 is the only game of those 4 that did nothing new

I didnt say doom 2 didnt hold up. If a game is fun it holds up, looking past graphics and limitations isnt an issue if theres fun involved.

He used doom because doom is more well known than wolfenstein. It was the right call.

What did FF7 innovate?

1. Doom
2. Super Mario 64
3. Street Fighter II

what did FF7 innovate?

Was SF2 really the first respectable fighter?

FF7 reworked what modern RPGS are. There was nothing as complex in the mainstream as FF7. Suddenly Firaga wasnt just firaga, it was firaga with a spellboost on a character that benefited from having this equipped on his weapon. The complexity was the innovation, not counting the half dozen other things that other games may have done first but not as well received (FMV's, 3d overworld, limit break, etc)

what did Mario 64 innovate? it wasn't the first 3D game.

Materia.

Find me a modern rpg that isnt a throwback that doesnt have a deep system that compounds effects instead of having a single base "this skill gives +10 magic"

>SM64
innovated the camera system used across the entire vidya industry (it's called camera for a fucking reason, lakitu follows you around with one). Standardized how movement in 3D space should be done

>DOOM
laid down the foundation for FPS games

>SF2
combos arose from glitches, blocking system used widely across the genre

>FF7
????

You already posted them in the correct order OP.
Though I never played FF7. Am I really missing out that much?

most innovative:
>doom
>sf2
>mario 64
>ff7

most influential:
>doom
>ff7
>mario 64
>sf2

holds up best:
>doom
>mario 64
>sf2
>ff7

it was the first one with combos (which were just a happy accident)

In terms of innovation and influence:
Doom, for helping spawn an entire genre.
SF2, for having a massive lasting design impact within its genre, that's felt in a huge amount of modern fighters.
SM64, for being pretty largely relevent within its genre.
In terms of how they held up, I'd probably put it SF2 > Doom > SM64. Never played FF7, and RPGs are firmly not my genre, so I'm not sure on that front. Also massive bias cause I'm a fps retard fanboy.

>FF7 reworked what modern RPGS are.

how? It was just an extension of other FF games

>Suddenly Firaga wasnt just firaga, it was firaga with a spellboost on a character that benefited from having this equipped on his weapon.

how is this diffferent from the eidolon system in FF6?

Camera controls

not really, FF6, 9, 14 are better

Camera you baboon learn your gaming history

FF7 is literally just the final fantasy formula with a shiny coat of paint, it's not an innovative game.

>how is this diffferent from the eidolon system in FF6?
Materia also have negative effects attached to them, and the effects are simply passive instead of being bonuses on level up

Its different because eidolons were essentially another equippable stat boost.

Materia had dozens of different combinations to equate to different builds for each character depending on the weapon or armor you choose to equip and what you choose to equip to it.

Now tell me how FF7's system is different from nier automata?

don't forget shoryuken motions and hadoukens being a staple in fg.

>FF7 reworked what modern RPGS are

the game at its base level was the same as FF1 and 3-6, it didn't rework shit. Having unique mechanics doesn't make it innovative, every FF has unique mechanics. It's the base game that matters in innovation

hilariously capcom is abandoning it with this down down bullshit

Then tell me how the unique mechanics in ff7 dont affect modern rpgs. Ill wait.

Is all this naive backlash just because FF7 is a popular game?

Doom holds up really well and is unironically one of the most influential games of all time.

Camera. Also influenced movement in 3D games for generations to come even if it wasn't the first 3D game. Even Tetsuya Nomura (you may recognize this name as he worked on Final Fantasy 7) admitted he wouldn't have made Kingdom Hearts if not for Super Mario 64.

FF7 was not a bad game, but it did not innovate, and it didn't influence anything.

>it's a "Sup Forums ignores the existence of WRPGs despite their objective superiority to JRPGs in every way" thread

Black Isle, Troika, and early Bethesda/Bioware did more for gaming than Square Enix could ever hope to.

>Most innovative
Doom
Super Mario 64
Final Fantasy VII
Street Fighter II

>Most influential
Doom
Super Mario 64
Final Fantasy VII
Street Fighter II

>Best Aged
Street Fighter II
Doom
Super Mario 64
Final Fantasy VII

>FF7 wasnt influential

fags who grew up crying over the story adulted into the fags "writing" modern games.and making shitty romances, and death as character development burdens we will always bear.

thats pretty fuckinginfluential.

Im not gonna say arena wasnt influential.

OP didnt make it an option.

>Then tell me how the unique mechanics in ff7 dont affect modern rpgs

Well just looking at its own series, most if not all the sequels didn't include them. FF7 is an influential game. It's not an innovative game though

Super Turbo is good faggot.

Doom > Mario > SF
FF7 didn't do shit.

>FF7 "influential" & "innovative"
>Literally just FF6 in 3D

>Diablo 1
>came out a year before FF7
>invented a genre
>in terms of further influence it made devs think about taking out turn based/ATB for more faster paced action (something i hate but this all comes from Diablo)
>did the FMV bullshit before FF7 "invented it"
>Launched Battle.net, a pioneer for online gaming

FF7 is one of my favourite games ever & i think Diablo ruined CRPG's, but this is just the facts

Most if not all games included improvements or at the least considerations. All of which consisted of more than one way to look at a "firaga" spell. Or an "Attack" stat.

If you want something specifc other than the complexity that materia brought to the RPG scene that I can point to as innovative, I dont have much. FF7 improved on a lot of previously held ideas. Its main claim to fame in changing the scene was making a weapon that has a haste effect, a slow on damage effect, and a permanent HP boost. I dont see how that isnt innovative as someone thats played a modern rpg in the last 20 years.

What game from that era would you replace it with?

Ultima Underworld>>>>> all of them.

>All of which consisted of more than one way to look at a "firaga" spell. Or an "Attack" stat.

can you emphasize this? I have no idea what you're talking about

>in terms of further influence it made devs think about taking out turn based/ATB for more faster paced action

What is Secret of Mana, Tales of Phantasia, or Star Ocean?

Chrono Trigger did much more to the RPG genre, so I'd use that.

not him but OoT for Z targeting, MGS for stealth mechanics, or super metroid for creating an entire subgenre of action adventure

>innovative

Doom>SM64>FF7>SF2

They all capitalized on already existing genres and/or concepts, but Doom made the more of it.

>influential

Doom>SM64>FF7>SF2

Just take a look at the number of clones spawned by each game.

>holds up

SF2>SM64>Doom>FF7

SF2 holds up best because it is a regular 2D fighting game with top-notch gameplay. The other three relied on the technical novelty for their time, still, of those three, SM64 offers the best gameplay.

Before FF7 firaga was firaga.
The attack stat was something that was affected only by equipped items and abilities.

FF7 introduced a customization system in which your attack stat was determined by a multitude of self chosen materia (weapons x 3 + traits). Firaga can now slow. It changed the RPG game.

They are not like Diablo

You know Avellone loved FFVII and it influenced him for a lot of stuff in, Planescape, right?

Literally any Final Fantasy was more innovative than 7 or 8.

I don't play fighting games enough to really comment on SF2 and I assume you included FFVII as a joke. So to compare SM64 and DOOM:

SM64 was more innovative and was really a completely new experience. Nothing controlled like it with it's camera system and movement. The developers had to completely rethink how games worked to create Mario's new moveset and level design. DOOM was really just the logical progression from Wolfenstein. It innovated on a tech level but the gameplay was just what id had done before but bigger and better.

Influence is too foggy an area to really judge. Pretty much every game in their respective genres is at least indirectly influenced by them but I don't know how fair it is to credit either of them with that. Outside of the various clones that thrived in the mid-late 90s, very few games really take after specific ideas pioneered by either game, with the exception of Mario's camera. DOOM's influence is very narrow compared to, for example, System Shock, who's innovations in game mechanics, level design, and story telling were a much slower burn, but ultimately spread much more broadly through the industry.

They both hold up great, but I'd have to give it to DOOM just because SM64's camera can be a pain.

Is there any character other than Ryu who has dp inputs in mvci?

>8 wasnt innovative either

cmon now user....

Only cultured person in here.

Diablo's loot & skill tree are present in most RPG's today also

>The attack stat was something that was affected only by equipped items and abilities.

>what is leveling up

I see Super Mario 64 there. Are those other games supposed to matter when put next to it? Lol.

>Innovation
SM64>DOOM>FF7>SF2
>Influence
SF2=SM64=DOOM>FF7
>Holds up
SF2>SM64>FF7>DOOM

The attack stat was something that was affected only by equipped items, abilities, and level ups.

That change anything I said?

>FF7 and fighter shit
Irrelevant
>SM64
Great game, transformative, etc., but ultimately heralded the decline of platformers.
>DOOM
Literally the origin of the modern FPS genre. Easily wins all three of your categories.

>influenced movement

then why does nothing else control like a Mario game?

>nomura wouldn't have made KH

oh no....

>ff7 didn't influence anything

false.

I think dante? I don't know stopped caring about that game, dropped SFV too I'm labbing it up in GG right now

nah 8 is innovative, not in a good way but innovative nonetheless. 5 was also less innovative than 7

>people ITT calling doom innovative when wolfenstein came out before it

>decline of platformers.

True, it made devs think they had to make big open levels that lacked good design with a focus on collecting shit, this wasn't even platforming honestly

Crash was the true successor to 3D platformers & what a surprise the series died when it went open world

Fun fact: In FF6 the only character stats that naturally increase on level up are HP and MP.

MGS's stealth mechanics were basically the same as MG2's. Thief was the real innovator of stealth in the 90s.

>ultimately heralded the decline of platformers

this makes no sense, platformers were very popular until ps3/360.

What did it innovate?

alright, even if they were atrocious.
was that all though? for all the praise it gets that's not very impressive. OOT is another game that gets lauded as being hugely innovative/influential, but I just don't see much of its DNA in anything else.

Nah they were dead in gen 6 except for a few like Ratchet & Jak, but they were not really big sellers like they use to