Just Being Honest Here

Can we just finally admit that this game has absolutely god awful combat even if it is a good game? Why is this so controversial to say these days on Sup Forums?

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I don't like the "you get hit but can evade" or "you hit but enemy can evade" that much, and the combat itself is simplistic, but it doesn't bother me that much.

A mix of spells, enchant items that do damage and melee is enough against anything

Because there's nothing wrong with the combat.

>RPG combat system that uses dice rolls and actually takes into consideration your stats into the mix
>bad

>these days
you mean since release?

>Why is this so controversial to say these days on Sup Forums?
Because retards think that just because it has decent mechanics excuses the rest. It has awful feedback, no skill involved, looks like ass, and is piss easy.

This is absolute nonsense and you know it. Action combat is a much better fit for this series.

>People will unironically defend this

You can even see what I mean in this. Disregarding this Webm's purpose for bait on the miss meme, even imagining that he did damage, fast or quick, it is not engaging in the slightest.

>no fatigue
>using a weapon he has zero proficiency in

Because people that whine about the combat are people that never played morrowind past level 1

Nice argument. Morrowind's combat is trash.

I agree, all video games have bad combat when you just stand perfectly still and click the mouse.

Does not justify not hitting the mudcrab

...

daggerfall's combat> morrowind's combat

I mean sure, but if you're in that sort of situation you wouldn't enter combat in the first place

It's not perfect, but playing like shit doesn't mean the game itself is shit

>enter game
>run off a cliff
>"WOOOOW"

The combat is dull. But I don't play it for the combat.

because autistic children who dont fit in irl try really hard to fit in online, balanced opinions are near heresy here.

then you have these autists who think that explaining the mechanics that everyone understands, somehow excuses those mechanics from making an unengaging shitty combat system.

Only retards use the
>b-but it's an RPG!
excuse as if it's an actual argument.

It just depends on what you're trying to compare it to. Admit it OP, you just posted this for the replies.

It would not be that bad if when you roll a miss the enemy would block or dodge instead of your weapon just magically clipping through them.

>then you have these autists who think that explaining the mechanics that everyone understands, somehow excuses those mechanics from making an unengaging shitty combat system.

>Stand perfectly still
>Press no buttons except M1
>WOW WHY IS COMBAT SO UNENGAGING?

Morrowind has bad combat, but not because retards don't know how the accuracy system works.

Melee's problem is that it's actually too EASY, and by the end of the game it's boring.

Bows/darts/shurikens are fucked because you have to enchant individual arrows if you want extra magic damage.

Destruction consumes way too much magicka to waste it on cliff racers/mudcrabs/etc. so even though you CAN play pure mage, most mages are going to use a melee weapon. At high levels, destruction (or absorb health from mysticism) is an instant win.

Thinking the game mechanics are bad is different than blatantly not following them.

>Playing Morrowind for the combat

i love the game to bits, ill readily admit the melee combat starts off shit, and the ranged combat is shit throughout.

game is still great though
started a playthrough just yesterday

Listen, it makes no fucking sense that someone who has never used a mace before can't hit someone else standing literally a foot in front of them with no animation accompanying that

It makes sense on tabletop games where you can explain that the enemy is actively trying to avoid being hit by you and subsequently moving out of the damn way or deflecting with their armor or whatever the fuck. But it literally makes no sense in Morrowind considering the enemies don't even make an attempt to do anything about getting hit

What exactly do you propose to do to make the combat more engaging then? Brownie points if you don't mention mods.

that literally is the combat in a nutshell though.

Try dodging so you don't get hit?

Use enchantments, spells, or summons?

And, fun fact: All weapons have three different types of strikes, all with different damage and weaknesses to different kinds of armor.

>Listen, it makes no fucking sense that someone who has never used a mace before can't hit someone else standing literally a foot in front of them with no animation accompanying that
So you're telling me that my superhuman adventurer that can kill monsters three times his size can't grab a blunt object and bash a crab to death with it because he's not experienced enough?

3>5>2>4>1

come at me, potatofags

Still better than Oblivion

Find me one single game that has fun combat when you stand still and click one button instead of actually playing.

I'll wait.

Just ignore me I read that post wrong.

can you just finally admit that you are too young to realize that back then nobody gave a flying fuck about combat itself in rpgs as it was just one of tens of systems affected heavily by player customization and not even reviewers gave more merit to combat than e.g. trading, as everyone was more interested in how your character choices will affect fighting more than the actual fighting?

can you think out of the box just for a split second and realize people's mentality back then was completely different?

I never said it was fun, I'm just saying that's all you pretty much do in combat.

Oblivion had the best quests in the series.

Still dont see why they got rid of touch spells

>to realize that back then nobody gave a flying fuck about combat itself in rpgs
You're a fucking idiot.

>But it literally makes no sense in Morrowind considering the enemies don't even make an attempt to do anything about getting hit

You mean literally all RPG enemies at the time? Go replay Fallout and try to punch the first rat you see with no points in unarmed.

>WOW WHY IS MY PERSON SWINGING AT THE AIR? HOW COME I CAN'T KILL A RAT? WHY ISN'T IT TRYING TO DODGE? WOOOOOOOOOW

Sniper: Ghost Warrior 2

>Try dodging so you don't get hit?
Why would I dodge hits that won't hurt me at all? Why dodge when all it is is moving slightly backwards from a shitty animation? Dodging blows ass and isn't any more engaging.

>Use enchantments, spells, or summons?
This is a fair point. Elder Scrolls games have always been better playing as a mage or a sneaky archer.

>And, fun fact: All weapons have three different types of strikes, all with different damage and weaknesses to different kinds of armor.
Yeah I know, and it's still meaningless because of how easy it is to deal damage. There is never any need to use any other attack other than the one your weapon is best at.

I've played Morrowind, I don't need spoon-feeding on how the mechanics work. The games combat is still ass.

its a limitation from the time it was released

they should have continued with dicerolls and added evasive animation if they werent going to improve any other part of the combat to bring it away from "mash button" to action. but it ended up being shitty as an action game and shitty as an rpg in later series

It doesn't.

or got rid of so many weapon types

>This faggot didn't even look at his weapons and see they have three different damage stats

your view is subjective. if you like dice rolls, you like it usually. if you dont like dice rolls, then you wont like it usually.

/thread

Is it still cool to hate Skyrim or can Sup Forums finally get over the memes and accept it's a great TES game?

it was just one of many systems of player interaction with the world, no more important than sneaking, talking and others

notice I am talking about actual RPGs, not dungeon crawlers like Wizardry

So your complaint is that the game is too easy?

Just increase the fucking slider you cuck.

>So you're telling me that my superhuman adventurer that can kill monsters three times his size can't grab a blunt object and bash a crab to death with it because he's not experienced enough?
If you actually used a sword and invested in dex/str to make your character a demigod, you'd have enough dex/stamina to actually hit somewhat decently with a blunt weapon. So yes, you could bash a crab to death with shit blunt weapon skills even if you have no idea how to fight with a mace. If you have good stamina/agility, you'd have a decent hitrate with a weapon you had no skill whatsoever in.

Doesn't FO3 and NV use the same system to an extent? I know you can miss a target purely based on stats even if they're right in front of you.

he literally said it was a good game, and while Im sure he was baiting it is pretty hard to talk about morrowinds shortcomings (for people who have not played it yet, or going back and replaying after all these years) without autists literally going nuts. Doesn't help that you get the other autists who act like the game came out this year criticizing things that were once commonplace and accepted (thac0 style systems in ye olde rpgs).

Children like you are the reason they removed all skills except for "one handed" and "two handed"

No my my complaint is that the combat is inherently unengaging and the mechanics behind it are easy you faggot. Besides, decreasing your damage and increasing the enemies hardly changes anything about the difficulty, it's still easy.

Not only is that not an argument, I have no idea what I said gave you the idea that I want all the weapon skills being removed. I'm defending morrowind having different skills by saying your hit% isn't based just on the weapon skill, you illiterate mongoloid.

>Other games do it too so it must be ok!!

Wrong

There is a pavlovian response to any criticism of Morrowind.
They truly enjoy the game to the point every flaw is a feature.
If someone points out any of the obvious shortcomings of the game they have a need to attack the person responsible for the affront.

Also old people have shitty taste in games.

Your complaint is
>Why would I dodge hits that won't hurt me at all?

So if you increase the slider, and the enemies is doing 6x damage, suddenly you actually have to dodge.

Your other complaint is
>how easy it is to deal damage

So turn up the slider and then suddenly it isn't easy to deal damage at all.

Oh wow, I just solved all of your problems with a single button press.

If your complaint is "It's not engaging because you hit things with a sword" then welcome to literally every game ever made.

the combat is fine, i could accept that the animations look retarded but it's an RPG based on stats and skills, you are going to suck at combat until you improve, it's the same thing as people bitching that JC Denton at the start of deus ex can't aim worth a fucking shit when he has no skills.

That's how VATS works, but VATS is a shitty system for everything other than grenade shooting. Normal shots will still work, you can snipe shit with the .22 pistol if you can line the shot up right.

WHY it is shitty does not matter.
THAT it is shitty does.

>Yeah I know, and it's still meaningless because of how easy it is to deal damage. There is never any need to use any other attack other than the one your weapon is best at.
Not him but there are many weapon types that deal around the same amount of damage for 2 different types of attacks at least iirc.

I like skyrim, it's a great porn game that can have decent combat/role playing with mods

just gets boring fast, since I don't enjoy any of the quests that much

>o if you increase the slider, and the enemies is doing 6x damage
Disregarding that you are exxargerating and you still wouldn't need to dodge, there is still the problem where "Dodging' is just walking backwards a few inches. You aren't fixing the issue you just putting tape with around it.

>Your other complaint is
>how easy it is to deal damage
>So turn up the slider and then suddenly it isn't easy to deal damage at all.
False, it's still just as easy as before you just simply made me have to do it for longer. Agility + High Weapon Stat will allow you to steamroll through the entire game.

Morrowind's combat is unengaging trash still, you are just suggesting it become slightly more tedious unengaging trash.

You forgot:

Using a shield to block damage
Using Frenzy or Command to cause enemy infighting
Sneaking up on enemies for critical hit damage

Morrowind's combat is easily its weakest point, but it's not because of the dice roll bullshit. It's because the dice roll bullshit has no visual feedback, and because the "move x direction to do y attack" doesn't actually do anything except make combat more tedious if you misclick. It'd be better if you could actually do things with the bad attacks, like knockbacks/parries for two of the same attacks hitting or even chains of combos. I saw an old mod that tried to do the latter, which used MWSE and looked like it didn't work very well.

>Dodging' is just walking backwards a few inches.

So literally every game ever.

but why does illusion suck so much, huh?

Name some. I already have an argument for this but I want to see how I should approach this first. It would be preferable if you didn't name another Elder Scrolls game.

Illusion is fun starting out, but it's no different for any of the other elder scrolls games. It's fun to use stealth to make people bitch slap each other, but illusion has always been colored balls of "make enemies kill each other/stop attacking/like you more"

>If my character is strong, the enemies are easy! What a shitty game!

Kill yourself.

Nice strawman.

That's exactly what he said though.

>Agility + High Weapon Stat will allow you to steamroll through the entire game.

after like the first two hours you may miss 1 in 100 times

I'm the same user. It's a strawman because my argument is on the simplicity and lack of player agency in the combat mechanics. I am not mentioning the difficulty of Morrowind in itself because all Elder Scrolls are easy. Also I don't think Morrowind is a shitty game, I love it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore flaws in it like other fanboys do.

How about Dark Souls?

Swing weapon, step back, step forward, swing weapon

>But you can roll! And backstab!
Ignoring the fact you can backstab in Morrowind too, I'll just use your answer
>Why would I when it's so easy to deal damage and you never have to backstab :^)

So you are complaining that the game didn't have combat mechanics that weren't invented until years after the game came out?

okay.

Yeah, I know... but why is it so boring? It becomes really really useless after lvl 12 or so... it's just like if you're not a magic focused character you can't even use spells that work with the enemies you encounter.

I always wanted to make a sort of bard/magic-thief with agility and personality as main stats, but it's really pointless and can't do much past lvl 21. It's like the game just ends right there.

This. If Morrowind was turn based then no one would complain

Over exaggeration but its true it gets better

stats >>>>> player actions

the Toonami review sold this game for me

I don't know why I suddenly started talking about Oblivion... but it's even worst in Skyrim... there's just like 4 spells

The combat is fine, it's the slow crawl walk movement speed that turns me off.

Get the boots of blinding speed asap on any new character. Improves the game immensely.

That's a pretty good comparison. The difference between Dark Souls is enemies attack in patterns. There is a significant visual difference in how it appears when you move because it actually feels like you are moving out of a strike that will do damage. I won't touch upon back-stabs but rolling is another good point. That adds player agency into when you dodge and adding a risk/reward factor with stamina and movement.

Thief came out before Morrowind and had better combat. Disregarding that, a lack of something existing doesn't mean a flaw isn't a flaw.

I do but if I don't have 100% magic res the brightness change is annoying

But they didn't...?

i.ytimg.com/vi/d5ZhR65C-dI/maxresdefault.jpg

Or do you mean Skyrim?

So your attack on Morrowind is you don't need to do anything other than simplistic fighting, even though you can if you wanted...
And your defense of Dark Souls is you can do things other than simplistic fighting, even though you don't have to?

I'm convinced.

No my attack is that the presentation. In Morrowind, if you do something you don't need too, it still feels and acts in a poor manner. You seem to also have forgotten my mentioning of attack patters that differentiate what exactly you are dodging from, which also plays a significant difference.

I don't dislike simplistic combat, I dislike unengaging combat.

So was "I don't like the animations" so hard to say?

Yes because it is more than just animations. It's also on NPC movement, and lack of player agency in some cases such as blocking.

Those are both just different ways of saying "I don't like the animations"

No they aren't. Don't mindlessley simplfify things without consideration. AI pathing and scripts would be the change in movement, not just different animations.

Skyrim's illusion scaling is at least significantly better than Oblivion, if you get the dual casting perk and some of the "increase x stat" perk or just install mods that fix it for you, you won't really have to worry about your level scaling breaking your illusion spells. In vanilla skyrim, you can have charm/frenzy/etc. work on a lot of enemies around/slightly above your level if you proc into it even a little bit, where as vanilla oblivion has a hard cap for illusion spells where they stop working on shit. Illusion is pretty boring in all 3 games, though.

I don't even like morrowind that much, but the combat is fine. Not every game has to be a third person action rpg.