What makes a good final boss fight?

What makes a good final boss fight?

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youtube.com/watch?v=gLd5eabSJ3g
youtube.com/watch?v=tz82xbLvK_k
youtube.com/watch?v=59ijRpWjAcI
youtube.com/watch?v=MSxaj3VGJ2A
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youtube.com/watch?v=C1Ose7A8P94
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It tests you on everything you learned throughout the game

I think soul, these sort of boss fights have stakes and have been leading up to the exact point. Music as well

NNGHHHHHHHHH LIQUIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Motivation and music.

cinematic auto scroller

STANDING HERE

This fight like everything else in MGS4 is actually extremely stupid and the only reason it gets judged more lightly than the rest of the game is because by the time you've reached this point you've endured so much shit from this game that you're basically trapped in a light form of Stockholm syndrome and this moment seems like a triumphant return in comparison to the diarrhea that was this entire game before this moment.

Three pulsating glowy weak spots you need to hit with the new weapon you just got

I battle where you have to go all out, just this one last time

I REALIZE

it could be a lot of things, gameplaywise it needs to the final test of our skills, but not controller crushingly difficult. music can account for alot as well. but sometimes even the most simple things can be good, like the OP cause finally finishing liquid off was cathartic as all hell

The final boss should use the gameplay hook of the game in such a way that it finally elucidates the theme and brings the whole point of the game full circle. It's often used best when it subverts what you've been doing the entire game to make a point.

Though admittedly, this is incredibly hard and no games are actually smart enough to pull it off. What you do see often though, is after the final boss or final piece of the game, there is a bit, like a small scene usually, where the core gameplay is used to make that thematic point, and the final boss before is more like a culmination of all that you've used.

YOU ARE JUST LIKE ME

quick time events

Music really does play a huge part

Directing in general. sound effects, camera angles, character animations, music, the story leading up to it and the stakes established. Every little action counts toward making the experience have impact. The 45 seconds leading up to pic related are one of the best examples I can think of. Too bad they dropped the ball with the actual battle. OP image is probably the gold standard for a final boss.

This, also it makes you reflect on the whole game / franchise.

The great final bosses all do that and the terrible ones don't.

>mechanics slowly introduced over the coarse of the game
>final boss incorporates all of them
>bonus: music is a remix of the main theme of the game

>finally finishing liquid off

Music

youtube.com/watch?v=gLd5eabSJ3g

While
Is really good. I don't think it makes a good final boss fight.

IMO, a combination of Music + The journey that lead up to the boss, makes the fight memorable.

The game has to give you a REALLY GOOD reason to be in that fight. Otherwise, it just feel like any other boss + harder.

the confrontation in meaningful
atmosphere
good use of game mechanics

>muh nostalgia wankfest

No, MGS4 is shit.

is*
I'm retarded

From the replies on this thread, what conclusion can be taken from pic related as a "final boss" ?

its the last fight in the game

That was basically a story moment that takes place after the formal "Final Boss" fight.

QTEs

>MGS4 was 9 years ago

>music is a remix of the main theme
post yfw

...

can you give examples of this?

YOU LIE

Being more than a bunch of self-congratulatory fucking cutscenes

Admit it Sup Forums

>tense buildup before fight
>boss is a huge plot reveal
>the game's lore and previous villain encounters all lead up to this moment
>battle theme mixes tons of leitmotifs from the rest of the soundtrack and does it well
>fight is bombastic and steps out of bounds from what you previously encountered
>cheesy but lovable "power of friendship" moment
>intensely feelsy ending

Come on, the only thing this was actually missing was difficulty. Had the fight been harder and longer (and didn't pull that "but it refused" bullcrap) this shit would objectively be a gold standard final boss.

youtube.com/watch?v=tz82xbLvK_k

...

FF VI, FF VII, FF X, MGS 3, MGS 4, Crisis Core, DMC 3, Pokémon RBY, Pokémon GSC, ier Automata, Red Dead Redemption, God of War 2, Tales of the Abyss etc.

>MGS 3, MGS 4
no

>game's lore and previous villain encounters all lead up to this moment
But it doesn't.
You barely even know who Asriel is.

Nope. Sans and Flowey were much better, simply because they weren't scripted bullshit and you could actually DIE.

youtube.com/watch?v=59ijRpWjAcI

>MGS3 and 4 didn't have great boss fights

what?

>It tests you on everything you learned throughout the game

The music
youtube.com/watch?v=MSxaj3VGJ2A

Cool music.
Succesfully instilled animosity or idealogical objection to the opponent.
Hard enough to make you feel accomplished after beating it but not actually hard enough to dampen the spectacle or the player's feeling of empowerment.

More games do that last thing than people like to admit.

The music
The setting
and more importantly the build up
When all three are combined, you the the perfect final boss

>Most challenging/2nd Most challenging fight in the game
>Multiple forms
>Extremely relevant to the game's plot and serves as a climax
>Kick ass music
It's gotta make you think 'this is it' y'know?
youtube.com/watch?v=pDqq_En24dM

>biggest moment of exposition in the entire game is all about Asriel and the story of his death
>further exposition in the true lab
>but it doesn't

TRYING TO MAKE HISTORY

its even better if its one button

Okami, you need to use every brush technique to defeat the final boss

>final boss cucks your wife the entire game
>does nothing but taunt you on your journey
>the final battle he fights you naked and his cock is the size of your entire leg

yes it's an actual game

What game?

Dantes Inferno?

yeah

emotional investment

>It tests you on everything you learned throughout the game

Based solely on this criteria then MGS4 doesn't make the cut. Liquid Ocelot is basically a totally separate game from the rest of MGS4.

MGS3 though is, in my opinion, the epitome of a good boss fight. The entire fucking game leads up to that confrontation, the atmosphere is palpable, and the fight itself utilizes the three tenants of the game (stealth, gunplay and CQC). Coupled with some major feels and it is THE greatest boss battle in the industry.

Dante's Inferno?

youtube.com/watch?v=C1Ose7A8P94

You don't really give a shit about him either way; his plea about letting him win and whatnot didn't really reach me, anyway.

To be honest, knowing Flowey is in fact Asriel ruins Flowey for me. Until now, it was that "thing" that was so far gone it made it another entity entirely even among monsters. Flowey didn't need to have a reason as to why he was the way he was, trying to give him some depth for cheap feels at the end just felt really forced.

A long memorable fight with multiple and different forms;
Meaningful intro and maybe midbattle dialogue;
Boss defeat being visually appealing to make the player feel satisfied and great at seeing said final boss crumble into pieces;
Epic BGM fitting to the pace and intensity of the battle;
Charming scenario;
And of course, intimidating boss character.

Twilight Princess.

This. Flowey worked better as a fucked up sociopath. Asriel ruins the story imo.

...

Agreed

Twilight Princess would be perfect if the Ganondorf phases actually dealt significant damage to you.

Not really. First time I've seen this fight was a video and I already thought it was the greatest thing

Indeed.
By intimidating I also mean that it should have a token OHKO, HPto1 or very high damaging AoE attack

it needs to be kino as fuck

>Encounter starts playing
Oh shit, is that what the Naked Snake Sneaking Suit in MGSV is supposed to be?
I never used it before, how do you get it?
Kinda fugly though.

It was very impactful in regards to the story but the actual fight is terrible. That's the entire point honestly. To show how pathetic allant had become and show the truth of the old one. Gameplay wise false king allant is the final boss.

BUT WHO'S TO JUDGE

It's found inside a locker after you knock out Raikov

This is how you make a proper final boss. Fuck you I consider him the final boss I don't care what you think.

>HP to 1
>intimidating

Well, he is the final boss of the DLC, so I guess it sort of works.

Atmosphere, music, the build-up and the fight itself.

I mean, Gehrman isn't half bad in that regard either.

Can someone explain why it's liquid ocelot and not liquid snake? I never played the 4th game and probably won't ever

Super Mario

WHATS RIGHT FROM WRONG

Buddy
youtube.com/watch?v=80XAJKqRU9k

Because it's Liquid Snake's hand on Revolver Ocelot's body.

Wait what?
So did liquid take over ocelots mind as well?
Poor ocelot

Basically, Liquid died at the end of the first game and since then Revolver "the Madman" Ocelot pretended to be the host of Liquid's soul.

Because he isn't a snake. He's Ocelot. He has liquid attached to his name because he pretended to be possessed by Liquid snake. At least Eva says he was just bullshitting. Which I believe.

I think this definitely works for games in which the techniques/gameplay are the focus, or games that require skill.

For RPGs it isn't so much about that as what the final bossfight means - how you got there, who it's against, what's at stake etc.

It's ambiguous whether there was actually any supernatural shit going on. My interpretation has always been that in MGS2, Liquid was legitimately possessing Ocelot (he's the son of a medium and therefore spiritually intuned). Then, between MGS2 and MGS4, Ocelot has Liquid's arm removed and replaced by a prosthetic, but continues to pretend to be Liquid for his plan to unfold.

Generic opera music and a cheesy speech about protecting your friends before the fight. Also the boss HAS to be the size of a building and use a sword of some sort.

No, but after a short period of actual possession followed by the removal of Liquid's arm, Ocelot spent so much time faking that he was still possessed (some believe that happened because he admired Big Boss so much), he lost his own personality and 'became' Liquid. He then wanted to fulfill the Boss' dream of a world where soldiers ruled and wanted to fight Solid one last time, the closest he could ever come to facing Big Boss once again.

So wait, there was a time when it was probably real possession? And he removed Liquid's hand?

I thought he was always faking it.

In MGS2 it's the real deal, is the running theory, for the reasons already stated. In MGS4 he's faking it, he has a robot arm in place of Liquid's.

Like I said it's ambiguous. The idea that the possession is a farce isn't introduced until the very end of MGS4. Whether that reveal suggests that it was always bullshit, or it was once genuine but Ocelot overcame it and started pretending afterwards (between MGS2 and MGS4), is basically up to the player.

but the arm definitely wasn't robotic in MGS2, it has veins and muscle and you see it tense up dramatically whenever Liquid takes control. So in all likelihood MGS2 was genuine spooky shenanigans, which Ocelot overcame by removing the arm but was inspired to continue using the Liquid persona for MGS4.

What always confuses me is why he needed the Liquid persona in MGS4. I guess it was to ensure Snake would get involved? I believe they mention that the Patriots, being machines, have set methods of dealing with situations. Since they sent Snake after Liquid on Shadow Moses, Ocelot became Liquid to ensure that they would use the same method and therefore Snake would be sent in.

The atmopshere. It has to feel like a grand finale in line with the tone of the rest of the game, wether it be an emotional climax or just bombastic music and visuals greater than any that proceeded it.

Touhou games always succeed at that.

>What always confuses me is why he needed the Liquid persona in MGS4. I guess it was to ensure Snake would get involved? I believe they mention that the Patriots, being machines, have set methods of dealing with situations. Since they sent Snake after Liquid on Shadow Moses, Ocelot became Liquid to ensure that they would use the same method and therefore Snake would be sent in.
That is a pretty good one, implying the continuation of Mystical shenanagins that robots are VERY bad at dealing with could be another factor too.

Boss fights are what is ruining gaming.

He needed the persona in 4 to just trick the Patriots with everything. He was a Patriot himself and seen as a threat, he needed to not be a Patriot and become someone they felt to be predictable