ITT: Ways to improve/add to the standard turn based RPG battle system
And I'm talking the standard, no frills battle system (like Dragon Quest, EarthBound, etc.)
I liked pic related and its tension system, shit was fun as fuck to go straight DBZ on bosses
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Remove random encounters
Add turbo button
I never figured out the most effective way to utilize the Tension system. It's been a while, but you lost all tension if you're hit, right?
Bravely Default making the actual turns into currency ala HP and MP was fucking inspired.
i liked bravely default's brave/default system.
Can someone tell me how the system in dqxi works it seems so weird since there is no way to activate in the zone manually
etrian odyssey, with lots of options for character building and resource management/combos
just make it more involved than spamming the basic attack actions with a decent difficulty level, that's all turn based really needs
I despise Tension and think it fucked the series up incredibly hard. DQIX's bonus bosses all spamming buff+tension removal and bosses going from a balls to the wall fight to a fucking joke just by using it properly is living proof of it.
>Can someone tell me how the system in dqxi works it seems so weird since there is no way to activate in the zone manually
On 3ds it is the same as past DQs: you give all the orders before the turn starts and then the turn starts and the speed stat decides which go first.
On ps4 it is like FFX's battle system: the speed stat orders the turns and then each character gets its own turn and acts immediately, so you give orders as the turns come.
Imo I prefer the traditional battle system because you have to predict how things might go, like ordering heals because you know that you will get hit and your healer has a speed stat lower than the boss. Things like that made the battles more challenging and fun, with a heavt prediction element involved. I'll probably still get both versions.
No random encounter
Battle on map
That's it for me
No random encounters, but then how do you get the thrill of hunting that rare enemy? Or getting snuck up on by a Golem you really don't want to face?
My issue with all "enemies on the map" systems is that it makes any enemies you don't want to fight too simple to avoid. You might as will just take out encounters altogether and only have the player fight when he wants to level up. It removes a big part of the danger of adventuring
You lose tension after performing an action aside from increasing your tension further, you can also lose it due to enemy abilities.
Make a system where the cast time of spells mostly determines the turn order instead of just player speed. Make all the selected attacks show on the UI, then add a real time element so the slower you pick your moves, the slower they execute. That way you can quick pick moves to try to preempt enemies, or you can slow play and react to what they're going to do but at the cost of possibly going after them.
I meant the in the zone system
You should play Final Fantasy 10-2. It has all that plus you need to time your abilities/animation speed to ramp up your combo ticker for the extra damage.
You want to improve something that's always incredibly boring instead of a real time system.
I actually want them to do away with enemies showing up on the map. It's god damn annoying when you never know if you're above or below the level curve so you just have to pray you didn't screw yourself over.
You only control one character, the rest are controlled by CPU
Then make it not that easy to avoid enemies genius
Faster move speed than the player, blocking narrow paths, hiding in the environment...lots of options
DQ already has that.
Fast battle transition, just load up the battle on the overworld.
Option to turn off special animation
Button that initiates 2x speed during battles for battles
Run/sprint button for overworld (i can't believe its 2017 and JRPGs with big maps still leave out a run/sprint button)
Fast travel via save points
Item that teleports you back to nearest town.
On-screen encounters
Ability to link battle encounters if enemies are close to you before battle initiates (Holy shit that was so useful in Tales of Vesperia and it never makes a comeback in later games either)
Is his default name really Eight?
Fast Forward buttons.
Allow animations to overlap
Add a turbo button and auto-battle command for weak shits
The controller has a fuckload of buttons. Use them. I shouldn't have to scroll through menus for every goddamn thing.
Persona 5 knew what it was doing.
group or team attacks
P5 didn't have overlapping animations though. And wining a battle was an unskippable 10 second animation
A battle system like pic related with a few tweaks. Things get much faster, and more options open up in the middle of battle as you progress so that you're constantly paying attention and actively doing something when attack or being attacked.
He was talking about the controls
True. One thing that the Neptunia games does very well is that you get in and out of battles instantly. A mediocre game becomes much more palatable when it's paced well.
I think Dragon Quest VIII already did about as much as turn based games can do. The only real additions you can make would be variations of the same thing. Like team attacks in Chrono Trigger/Suikoden or percentage attacks like in Chrono Cross. But the end result is still the same, damage over time. Compare this to ATB where you actually get penalized by not attacking fast enough.
Dragon quest xi adds team attacks
Status effects work on bosses unless it generally resists like some enemies may do so.
Standard Enemies and bosses can abuse the systems that the party can use, like more turns for weaknesses hit, abilities, buffs, party composition with "classes" and rows/those effects, those shit.
Try and implement rows/positioning or go semi strategy RPG. If latter option, try and reward using enviroment of the dungeon to advantage in battle (traps, pincer attacks at chokepoints, places which benefit certain classes/attacks)
Cut down on animations so battles gets faster, at least load up the battle backgrounds faster or try to make it appear in the field depending on how overworlds and dungeons appear for each game.
Isn't turbo/auto in most atlus games though? I agree though.
Everything I hear about the game just makes me want to play it...
Add a grid based system.
Both you and your enemies act on a 2x3 grid. You can move around and take actions, and your range is based on which row of tiles you're on. Enemies can dodge your attacks. Some enemies have tells for which tile they're about to move to. If you target the tile they're about to move to, you can attack them as they attempt to dodge, dealing critical damage.
A game way ahead of it time called Time Stalkers for the Dreamcast did that. It also had monster collecting, let you equip a total of 10 rings, let you buy more than what you can afford and obtain a debt that gotta be pay off and ton of other minor things that it did right. Sadly the game wasn't well known and even disliked by people who wasn't aware of what type of game it was so it is a dead series.
These things can never have very much tactical depth because they lack character movement, or when they do have the place of movement is too small and open to require much though process.
The challenge has always come from a type of endurance test. You do dozens of simple battles and it slowly chips away at your health and resources (assuming it's one of those games that makes healing scarce). So since it's an endurance test you'd improve it by making there be more resources to manage and by making the path between one save point and another longer and more arduous.
I played DQ8 for like an hour and got sick of it. It's too reliant on spamming items. I don't like that.Trash shouldn't kill you without medicine herbs.
Add enough variety to your options so that your not always just hitting attack cause you have limited resources that are easily regained, like MP in Dragon Quest VIII, at least until you get to late game and you have tons of MP to pull from and items that restore it all, early game is literally just attack until you get to a boss and then you can waste MP, Golden Sun manages this a lot better by having MP refresh a little as you walk, having Dijinn that can act as spells when you don't have MP, summons that act as nukes at the expense of draining your stats leaving you vunerable, and basic attacks that can actually leave an area of effect if you have a weapon equipped that has a special ability.
>a ring for each finger
holy shit i need to play this game now
You got a lot more control over it once you got Tendril of Tension, and eventually two, to keep up tension buffs when you needed them and get someone to full tension in two turns by focusing on them.
Tension is harder to manage before than, both because at lower levels you can't get tension above 50 and because it takes longer to build it you have a higher chance of getting hit, especially if you don't have your full party of 4 yet.
Better skill systems that implement a lot of damage+effect abilities so that you're not shit on for trying something out when it doesn't work, nonstandard buffs/debuffs like an attack that deals heavy damage to an enemy and also raises the user's Strength by X for a few turns, enemies that aren't autoattack bots and have movesets that can challenge a party and force them to adapt.
Basically steal from SaGa a lot.
Complaining about random encounters is equivalent to saying "this game is shit because it expects me to play it".
What's the best DQ game? I need something to dump time into.
You got a lot more control over it once you got your first Tendril of Tension, and when you eventually get two, so you can keep up tension buffs when you needed them and get to full tension in two turns by focusing on a specific character. Before then it's harder to manage, both because at lower levels the highest you can get your tension at is 50, and because it takes longer to build, you have a higher chance of getting hit, especially if you don't have your full party of 4 yet, enemies will be more likely to focus on you.
It had the unusual feature of resetting your level to 1 every time you entered a dungeon. It worked, as the game was a dungeon crawler rather than rpg, but boy were most players pissed about that.
Shitty speedbump random encounters that amount to nothing but a small drain on resources, if even that, while I mash A to attack them and get nothing else done are shit. Midgame Wizardry-style random encounters that will ruin my ass if I don't methodically take them out are fine.
It's not so much variety but meaningful variety. You can have dozens of different attacks but if one is better than the other: more efficient use of mp, more damage, or more reliable the others might as well not exist.
Games generally get around this by having enemies that are more or less resistant to certain types of attacks. You might have an enemy with high resistance to most direct attacks but its vunerable to damage over times like in Darkest dungeon. Or there is an elemental weakness/weapon triangle
Ultimatly the goal is always to do as much damage as possible using as few resources as possible. Damage/Mp cost is a standard formula for measuring the viability of a spell
You can get items that restore MP and HP as you walk in DQ as well. Plus, in DQ games, you're suppose to use items and skills, not just mash attack all day.
They're all good. But V or VIII usually gets named as the best games in the series. If you want to waste a lot of time, play VIII.
Even the hardest games in the world have popcorn enemies. They exist as a cooldown or build up to the actually tough stuff.
New golden sun fucking when?
>Shitty speedbump random encounters that amount to nothing but a small drain on resources, if even that, while I mash A to attack them and get nothing else done are shit.
Exactly, the random encounters are only shit because the gameplay is shit. People complain about random encounters when they should be complaining about how 99% of RPGs with random encounters have terrible gameplay.
I haven't played DQ8. What did it do with it's battle system that was unique?
Most of the attacks do about the same amount in Golden Sun, at least if you don't count elemental weakness, single target attacks do the most but if you have a lot of enemies you get plenty of AoE options too, not counting summons, you'd have to set them before each battle if you wanted to use them every time, it's a lot easier to just use the dijinn normally in battle and just use your summons when they're availble.
The problem is that any such benefit is overshadowed by them being an annoying waste of time. They could be substituted with cutscenes or even loading screens and it would be an objective improvement over mashing "attack". Gameplay that isn't interesting is gameplay that doesn't need to be there.
Nothing.
In Pokemon you can one shot everything and it's still fun.
Tension and full 3D animations.
You just plain suck or are retarded only time I use items is for bosses, tough fights, and to conserve mp.
>naming yourself eight
That doesn't detract from my point. A game like FF6 has joke random encounters that are consistently easy as shit and can be steamrolled with no thought, whereas in something like Wizardry 6, the vast majority of encounters in the mountains, mines, pyramid, and swamp will destroy you if you aren't bothering to tailor your strategy. Someone who isn't blinding/nauseating the dwarves and hill giants in the mountains or AoEing the swarms of jellyfish/unga bunga women is going to have a nightmare of a time.
it's really slow going in DQ though, you can be 30-40 hours into the game if you don't set up everything just right and if you fuck up you'll be running around mashing attack because you don't have the right skills you need, you don't have the items you need, I played DQVIII tons so I know all this and now that there's a heavy priotity in trying to get far in the game as fast as you can early on so that you level quickly and get access to all this so battles become a drag, the first time going though DQVIII could be extremely tedious cause I wasn't well equipped, and it's not well equipped in a 'your easily going to get killed' kind of way, your still high level from grinding, but because your allocation isn't ideal battles take forever without keeping AoE managment in mind.
Quite often the gameplay system itself isn't shit, as it works very well on bosses and other challenging enemies. It only falls apart on pointless trash enemies where it doesn't matter what you do, you're going to win anyway.
Bad analogy incoming. Chess works just fine. But if you had to grind through ten matches where the opponent only has the king and no other pieces, but you'd still have to go through the motions to checkmate him every time, before being allowed to have a real match it would get old real fast.
*so battles don't become a drag
Sorry, I'm talking about people who aren't autistic or young enough to still be playing Pokemon. Normal people get annoyed when they have to spend a minute mashing the A button with zero through or decision involved.
>It removes a big part of the danger of adventuring
You completely counter argued your whole post with this one sentence
Speed running and keeping track of your runs I guess?
you're complaining that.......you have to use items?
???????????????
just fucking use items you two year old
>replacing combat with cutscenes would be an improvement
Final Fantasy proves otherwise.
And once again, there's nothing preventing you from using actual skills. What a lot of people don't seem to realize about Dragon Quest is it is about economizing effort, not just doing damage. The 'fun' is in finding the optimal way to get through battles faster and with better synergy. Yes, you can win a random battle by just mashing attack with single target weapons. But it would be much more efficient (and faster) to use group and all field weapons/skills. It may take you four turns to defeat a group of enemies just mashing attack. But only two turns to finish off the same enemies using boomerangs, whips, thin air and woosh.
So if you're getting bored just spamming attack, then do something else. Its not the games fault that you're ignoring all the options it gives you and wasting turns. Of course you're gonna get bored when you limit yourself.
I still prefer the combat system from the first game, but that might be because the characters in 2 just had much less interesting and creative movesets. Just needed to be more difficult and make status effects actually fucking useful.
Just level up properly you dingus, if you run straight into the cave at level 1 as soon as the story let's you no shit your going to get your ass handed to you.
You don't have to grind at all in DQVIII. You just really suck at the game. You can have slime killing skills 5 hours into the game. But you don't even need to grind of slimes at all. All you need to do is focus on maxing one weapon and one passive per character. You can beat the game with any combination. Even all fisticuffs.
Once you become familiar with the game's systems, how scarce each resource is, and the most efficient use for them you sort of develop a system of thought that auto-mates the process.
This is generally why such games need heavy RNG because it breaks you out of your normal routine sometimes. Something unexpected or unusual happens and you need to think on the fly about how to change up your routine.
No RNG means that once you figure out the most efficient thing for the encounter you can just repeat that every time the encounter happens.
Anyone have DQVIII for 3DS? I'm playing the JP version but don't know where camera control settings are, want to fix the inverted controls, where are they?
Crazy chink spends 200 hours at the start of the game to grind up to level 40 on DQ11 to see what happens when you kill the dragon from cell escape. Jesus fuck.
youtu.be
>wah Dragon Quest sucks because random mobs make you use items and its hard!
>wah Dragon Quest sucks because all you need to do is spam attack and its easy!
I'm getting some mixed signals here...
>>replacing combat with cutscenes would be an improvement
>Final Fantasy proves otherwise.
I didn't say it would be good, I said it would be less bad. And it's not like Final Fantasy even does what I said (it commits both sins of worthless encounters and too many cutscenes) so I'm not sure how you thought that was an argument.
>So if you're getting bored just spamming attack, then do something else. Its not the games fault that you're ignoring all the options it gives you and wasting turns. Of course you're gonna get bored when you limit yourself.
If Nintendo released a Mario level that was a flat line, maybe with like, a single block in it, no one would defend it by saying "just use your imagination, do some triple jumps". How you can find "encounters should always make you think, at least a little bit" to be a controversial statement is beyond me.
More anime girls.
Wow we have a retard here
>No mention to the Mario & Luigi series
ftfy
IX had it first.
>How you can find "encounters should always make you think, at least a little bit" to be a controversial statement is beyond me.
It helps if you read my entire post. Where I pointed out that random battles do make you think. That is, if you want to actually play them efficiently. You're literally saying "I want to play smarter, but won't do it unless I'm forced to."
Anyone one else think it's sort of silly how you just stand there bobbing up and down in every turn-based RPG?
I personally feel like only the first one had a good balance of action and RPG elements. When you get to 3 and beyond every attack from you or the enemy becomes a fucking minigame onto itself and it's just too repetitive.
>looks up with both eyes
>attacks with only one arm up
why does this gif trigger me so much?
This is why I prefer the remake version, since it has reset skills AR code.
>inb4 hurr cheaters
Well I know now, that's the point, I didn't realize how the game expected you to play until I was halfway through and spending tons of time on random battles because Twin Dragon Lash was my only AoE attack, after I realized ability point allocation was extremely important because of the limited number points you got and required good planning to have a game go well, I understood it a lot better, and I've played through the game 2 or 3 times since then and it went a lot smoother, you just have to know what your doing
Early game yeah, mid-game if you don't know what your doing not having the right weapons and skills will just make battles take forever, the idea is to get through the early game quickly so that you don't spend a ton of time on the boring type fights and you have a fun mid-game.
You have autism
People do move when they are idle, it's just exaggerated in RPGs because if they didn't do that you would be staring at models which basically are static for 80% of the time.
Art exaggerates things.
I am now suddenly aware of an interesting similarity between M&S and Undertale in that they both involve dodging during turn based RPG fight, and in both cases it serves the narration really well.
Really, the way I remember both games fondly are very similar due to this. I'm surprised I never noticed this before.
I liked how Skies of Arcadia had your other party members and monsters doing their own attacks in the background. It didn't affect anything, but it felt nice that they're not just standing there.
Menu>misc(right column, second from bottom>setting(fifth option)
You're an idiot.
I think one really good thing about Nep VII (have not played other Neps) is that you can skip most of the animations in battle, so for grinding you dont have to see same animation thousand times and just blast through cannon fodder.
EXE drive is nice thing as well, so not all skills are bound how much mana you have.
>monster collecting
Hold the fuck up. How many monsters can you collect in that game?
i'm not seeing it, is it not in the JP version? Camera turns right when I hit left, it's confusing as fuck.
that's how you play though
fpbp
I fucking hate "random" encounters. They dont' add anything to the game, they just interrupt my questing with an epileptic fit that requires me to waste 3 minutes in an unskippable low level encounter designed to make you want to rent the game fifteen times. It's outdated and outmoded now.
By all means have spottable encounters and some random if you have to, but don't have them every four fucking steps on the world map that shit is ridiculous.
Length=/=Quality.
Why are you playing the JP version, anyway?
I wanted to play through with Japanese voices, I already played through with English voices a ton.
>Make it about building your team before the battle just as much as the actual battle itself. Etrian Odyssey does this very well.
>Fluid animations. Despite all of the flaws with its battle system, P5 was still very fun and refreshing due to how nice everyone moved. It could use more of them, though.
>Have bosses be weak to statuses and debuffs. Bravely Default and Etrian Odyssey do this. EO especially makes it a priority: get your Gunner to bind an enemy's head and suddenly they can only use suboptimal parts of their moveset.
>Make it about scouting for information. Make the players learn about the boss and its skills. It has a bunch of sleep attacks? Make it almost unbeatable without a very reliable way to disable sleep.