Before:
>Company made custom engine
>tune said engine exactly for what they want to
>create new engines when needed and re-use engines when possible
Now:
>Use Unreal or Unity
>Jury rig said engine to do what you want and hope for the best
>this is the "industry standard"
>Unreal virus is starting to infect Japanese companies too
Why is this new system better than the old one?
>Make a shitty engine hastily and hope that it works
>Get programmers and artists to get accustomed to it
>Might have shitty results
vs.
>Get a license for an engine that has been in development for years by a team who is dedicated to making this engine
>Very well documented
>Can find programmers and artists who already have experience with it
Fucking hell, I do wonder why premade engines are getting more popular.
Making an engine yourself is too much work. Why not just take something that someone has already done before? Why invent the wheel new?
Because Unreal is an inefficient middle of the road engine. It produces middle of the road results. Making a new engine gives you a big edge on the competition, if it works out right.
It's better for business because you don't have to put money into building and maintaining a proprietary engine. Also you can't recruit people who already know how to work with the engine, making your software engineers more expensive to replace.
Or you end up with a FFXV situation where you create a dumpster fire that sucks up all your money developing the engine and then you can't get any help or outside workers without training them on said engine and how it works.
Luminous Studio wasn't designed for Open World games and is not suited for it. FFXV is generally a mess and the engine is only the start of it.
EA has Frostbite, Valve have Source, Ubisoft also have Anvil and some other engine I don't know the name of. Every big company have their own engine now, only the poor resort to Unreal and only indieshit is made on Unity.
It's almost like you're implying that making an engine from scratch takes a week or two, instead of years. A AAA one that is. Not to mention all the other software that has to get implemented in it like 3DSMax, Nvidia shit, etc. You also need to program it in such a way that the game can be exported to a variety of platforms without much work. Otherwise you end up with shitty frame locked ports.
>1998
>Unreal engine could make gorgeous looking world, render a lot of stuff and with good sounds and music
>now
>Unreal engine is average, unremarkable
Bit of a bummer.
And, why would that be?
Lets be honest, an engine really only should take a month or so to make if you're actually competent. It's not that hard
you don't care about being a special snowflake too much if making profit is the top priority
>Why is this new system better than the old one?
See: Luminous Engine.
Because an engine that once pushed boundaries is now mediocre?
They take more time to develop and code now than they did in Gen 5 and 6, that's why.
>Making an engine isn't that hard
>Should only take a month
Try making an engine before making assumptions.
Ok. Make your own and post it here on Sup Forums for all us /gdg/ idiots to use. Thank you.
Each company making a custom engine is retarded for numerous reasons.
>Sup Forums's understanding of software development
>he might be serious
Would you make me an Unreal engine clone please? I'll give you 20 bucks and 2 months time. Should be easy, right? :3
Oh, and please add some revolutionary features never seen before. I don't want it to be as mediocre as unreal.
>Lets be honest, an engine really only should take a month or so to make if you're actually competent. It's not that hard
Why do people this ignorant think that it's a good idea to open their mouths?
it only pushes as much boudary as id tech and frostbite.
actually because like half the engine nowaday is based on id tech, id tech pushed more.
It's the same reason CG/digital overtook real 2D animation. Most people prefer the path of least resistance even if they have to sacrifice a significant amount of quality. Using a pre-made engine is easier, faster, and cheaper.
>in b4
>i-i was just baiting guys! honest! y-you fell for my bait hehehe
unimpressive bait
>when you just woke up from a 35 years long coma
>Making a new engine gives you a big edge on the competition
Yeah because look how well the Luminous engine worked! Or how about id Tech 5! Crystal Tools totally wasn't shit and XIV 1.0 was properly optimized!
Don't forget Japs use a lot of middleware and lower budget games use shit like PhryeEngine. Japs generally never made engines, but just wrote code for their game that they couldn't really use for different kinds of games like Unreal or Unity can. Games are way more complex now so writing a game in code from scratch and getting Uncharted 4 results is a bitch and Japs struggled during the PS360 era. MTFrameworks was good, Fox Engine was okay, but the shit other big devs made like Square and Sonic Team are pretty bad.
Before
>Sup Forums talks about videogames
Now
>Sup Forums displays their huge ignorance about something they claim to love
Well to be fair you've probably doing the second one since always
10 years ago you could make a map out of a few textured planes and some low poly props. now it takes a team of artists to make all the shit required. game production has changed because the market demands more and more advanced simulation and graphics. you are stupid, op.
Only smaller devs use Unreal or Unity, AAA studio's use their own engine
But for Japan, i don't know what happened with Square's Luminous & Capcom's Panta Rhei
Luminous is likely Console limitations & i expect to see the engine used more in Gen 9, but Capcom just switched to Unreal & "RE engine" without a word, maybe budget issues?
a shame more games don't use Cryengine 3 though
I don't think Panta Rhei has been used in any games. It seems like they couldn't get it to satisfactory levels. I don't know why they just didn't make MT Framework 3.
>It's the same reason CG/digital overtook real 2D animation. Most people prefer the path of least resistance
Is this a joke? It took years for CG to get where it is and there was plenty of resistance. Not to mention all the training and new concepts that had to be brought in since traditional animators couldn't just jump into the new boat.
crytek can make good engine but cant make good customer support, marketing
or games
>AAA studio's use their own engine
I guess so. But if MGSV being unfinished, FFXV being a borefest, FFXIV being broken at launch, and the Panta Rhei getting canned, and Crytek never picking up, and so on and so forth.
Is that making your own engine is guarantee that your company won't remain AAA after the fact. The only ones who could afford to make their engines are indie devs, and even that's suspect: there's too many cases of promising indie games fizzling out because the engine was taking twice as much time to make as the actual fucking game, and in fact the indies that use pre-built engines are the most likely to actually get anything done.
Because programming is a tool, not art. When I was asking Sup Forums about what language would be the best for making software for communicating with measuring station, they replied C# and when I asked why, they said "because it have huge library and whenever you will think of something, there are chances that somebody else did that before, uploaded, it got improved and optimized by 10 other guys and the result is better than what you will ever accomplish on your own".
You have no fucking idea how complicated is making your own engine nowdays. Times when one guy or his 5 friends could make whole game on their own are long gone and nobody will risk sinking shitload of money and time into making 500th engine and optimizing it, when there are already done solutions that already works very well. And fuck memes, Unity CAN be good running, its a fucking tool after all, performance depends on user as well. UNLESS devs absolutely need some features that other engines cant provide. No point in making new engine for the sake of making new engine alone, its waste of resources and time. Kinda like making "original dont steal" Linux distro that works exactly the same as the ones already existing instead of improving what is already here. Oh wait...
>I guess so. But if MGSV being unfinished, FFXV being a borefest, FFXIV being broken at launch, and the Panta Rhei getting canned, and Crytek never picking up, and so on and so forth.
Thing is, MGSV was not great, but it had nothing to do with the engine. Fox Engine is great and it's a shame Konami isn't putting it to good use.
>Why is this new system better than the old one?
because you can shit out shitty and broken games way faster and even completely incompetent devs can get at least something to work.
When I see an Unreal Engine logo, I always try to avoid it at all costs. In 99% of the cases you will get a shitty broken buggy game with a horrible frame rate.
It literally says
>dev is incompetent
>avoid at all costs
ITT: Idiots who who never written a simple program in fucking JavaScript or some other beginner tier coding language think they have what it takes to make a properly working game engine.
>C#
kek
the programming language of millennial retards.
Yeah because everyone knows that C is the best and C++ is shit.
>already works very well
yeah, we saw that already, fuckhead.
Devil May Cry 4 using Capcom's properly made MT Framework
>60 fps
Devil May Cry Over This Piece Of Shit Story "game" by incompetent devs using Unreal Engine
>unstable crappy cinematic 30 fps
fuck off
C++ is not C#, you fucking retard
>an engine really only should take a month or so to make
You sound like smart guy, really....
>programming language of millennial retards.
That's Javascript
And if Ninja Theory attempted to make their own UE3, it would run much, much owrse.
C is portable
C++ is portable
C# is Microsoft garbage, no one right in their head would use this piece of donkey crap. If you are that bad at programming, simply use Visual Basic
>Use Unreal or Unity
>both available with source code and million options to tune
>companies chose not to
???
Mono runs well pretty much anywhere.
Official .NET Core for loonix also exists
Believe me we know how hard is to make engine from scratch,we are angry that they dont even bother to customize Unreal once they get it.
You shouldn't have to create your own engine to create a damn game. Game development is already hard enough as is.
incompetent devs are incompetent and shouldn't make anything at all
And Ninja Theory should simply make crappy movies, that's all what they actually want, can't even write a good story or blieveable characters, but at least they would fuck off gaming. I have no idea how this garbage studio hasn't been closed down yet.
Other studios have been closed for way less although those were way more competent.
The team matters far more than the engine.
C# works fine on Linux since long time already, mate.
>incompetent devs
You answered your own problem. Even the most expensive camera wont produce good pictures if user dont know how to handle it.
>Mono runs well pretty much anywhere.
Does it run on Wii?
On N64?
On DS?
On PS3?
On PSP?
On Dreamcast?
On AmigaOS 4?
On Atari?
On Samsung TVs?
You have no idea what you are talking about. Literally no idea.
NT games sell decent 1-2 million. That's more than enough to survive.
>renderware wasn't huge in the 6th gen
You yourself already pointed that NT are incompetent devs, so of course their game is gonna be shit.
I give you another example, picrel on UE3 (originally), what now?
In other words, Ninja Theory shouldnt try practice yet, I am right? :)
>but but but it somewhat works on Linux
>sure, it may be totally outdated, but who cares
Still led by Microsoft
Fuck off shill
btw. there is way more than Windows+Linux, fucking mongoloid. Only morons would use something that Microsoft is a part of.
>embrace
>extend
>extinguish
It all depends on how well you optimize it.
Frostbite for example is fucking amazing and every game that is built with it runs smooth as butter, except for ME Andromeda. How those shitty devs managed to fuck that one up I don't know.
>Very well documented
>UE4
Ever played Dishonored 2? Runs and looks like shit, let the specialists make the engine.
Anyone else always imagine it was spelt and said "Jerry Rig"?
Holy fuck OP you opened my eyes Jury Rig makes a thousand times more sense
>Still led by Microsoft
>Only morons would use something that Microsoft is a part of.
Sup Forums is the other way. And take your MS-phobia with you.
>EA games
their own Frostbite engine by DICE
>Ubisoft
Multiple engines by themselves(Anvil, Snowdrop, Dunia etc)
>Activision
COD still uses modified Q3 engine from '97
>Bethesda
gamebryo as ever
>Square Enix
their own Luminous engine
>CDProjekt
their own REDengine or whatever
>Rockstar
their own RAGE engine
>Indie devs
Unity, Unreal or also self-made engine
OP is a faggot basically
most bigger studios use their own custom made engines, shit even some indie devs do
i thought it was in reference to jerry lewis
Don't forget the amount of money that needs to be invested in creating a new engine. Many devs aren't going to be able to afford creating a dedicated engine.
I will say each game having a dedicated engine made for it would be ideal if they had the time and money for it but it's unrealistic to think that would be the case in most situations.
why did geomod2.0 have to die
C# does run on PS3/4, Xbox (no shit), Switch, Android and iOS through either .NET, Mono or Xamarin
No commercial company is developing games for retro bullshit in the year of our lord twenty one seven AD
What game is that in OP?
>Many devs aren't going to be able to afford creating a dedicated engine.
even poor devs like Metro and Stalker devs made their own engines
Ubisoft has at least 3 of their own engines
even bioware made their own engine(s) near 2000ish
afaik Stardew Valley 1man dev made his own engine for the game
they just dont give a shit like Bethesda
why did geomod2.0 have to die it was so promising.
>Why is this new system better than the old one?
Because most games in Unreal run better than ones in custom engines without sacrificing noticeable customization abilities the game developers need.
>hurr durr a simplistic fighting game runs at 60 fps finally on our shitty engine
>we win
No, you lose.
I bet you can also make a Snake game on UE that runs at 60 fps. Whats the fucking point.
UE is a shit engine, designed for PCs, not meant for consoles at all and on PC you can simply tell the customer to buy a better PC so that the shitty engine will at some point be able to shit out more frames per second.
If there was a tiny bit of greatness anywhere to be found, but their "games" are simply garbage. They just got their SJW fanboys, who will buy anything up. Doesn't matter how crappy it is.
I mean let's go through their games
>Heavenly Sword
garbage, shit combat, crap frame rate
>Enslaved: Odyssey to the West
garbage, shit combat, crap frame rate
>DmC
garbage, shit combat, crap frame rate
I see a pattern here
and DmC is not even their own shitty IP. They were shitting on a well known and established IP of rock solid 60 fps games.
Tell me how the fuck this is possible
How does a shitty studio gets to make a new Devil May Cry game, when they are incapable of creating proper games in the first place?
Now look at Nintendo and them asking Criterion to make a new F-Zero game. That makes sense. Criterion at least released some rock solid 60 fps games with proper gameplay (Burnout Paradise).
The reason shit like Unreal and Unity are used so often is because they cut out the longest and hardest part of making a game.
Making an engine is incredibly difficult and time consuming, but once you've got it done, you're 75% of the way to having a finished game.
NT is trash as expected, but even then the PC version of DmC:DmC was easy as shit to run at constant 60FPS.
The console versions were fucked yet the PC version looked good for how easy it was to run at max settings without framedrops.
Hey fuck you, I like the idTech engine.
>UE is a shit engine, designed for PCs, not meant for consoles at all
XStation consoles are literally x86 PCs now.
Console games always run like shit, regardless of their engine.
How old are you?
Cant you remember the time when 90% of all fps used quake engine?
Games have gotten more compicated to make, which has resulted in standardized engines and more middleware.
You might be able to make a doghouse with a regular saw, but if you're gonna build a fullsize house you'll probably want a buzzsaw.
>Square Enix
>their own Luminous engine
Luminous ended up being a shit show and they moved their other projects to Unreal 4. I recall rumors they were going to try and make their own engine, fucking again, recently though.
Stardew Valley was made with the XNA framework. Which is essentially an engine.
I don't think you fully understand what an engine is.
>Only smaller devs use Unreal or Unity, AAA studio's use their own engine
Wrong.
>tekken 7
>kingdom hearts 3
>street fighter 5
>gears 4
>A Way Out
>Darksiders III
>Days Gone
>Dragon Ball FighterZ
>Dragon Quest XI
>Final Fantasy VII Remake
>Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue
>Sea of Thieves
>etc
Look at how shit Square Enix is. Their custom engines are absolute shit tier. I wish those japs would wisen up and stop releasing half assed buggy shit.
>before
>use quake engine
>now
>use unreal
Fixed
>UE is a shit engine, designed for PCs, not meant for consoles at all and on PC you can simply tell the customer to buy a better PC
>tfw running UT4 on my 8 years old CPU
This, and incidentally the problem is in big part because of the underpowered CPUs that don't really match the GPUs efficiently in most cases.
then it was another indie game but i remember one where the guy made his own engine and then the game
People really hate Unreal and Unity without really having any concrete reason why. Bad games are made on the engine, so suddenly they write it off. It's such a fucking Sup Forums thing to screech about.
>mostly japanese devs who cant code properly anyway
whoa
what a surprise
UE is a great engine, 4 is many orders of magnitude better than the crap heap that was 3. Unity is kind of crap and you should be ashamed of using it. With that being said all the porn games on unity makes me glad it exists.
Tekken 7 has a longer loading time than Wildlands which is an open world game for fucks sake
Shit game devs who are too stingy to even buy the full license of Unity and Unreal.
Therefore their games constantly spam the Unity/Unreal logo in players faces and people associate the engine with shitty games
>we
>we
Only armchair devs and ignorant retards think that "making your own engine" is a better idea than using Unity or Unreal.
The only time you would make your own engine is if
>modifying an existing one wasn't viable for your needs
>you don't want to pay 5% to Epic Games
Apart from that there is no good reason that would outweigh the benefits of using say UE4. Especially since making a new solid enginge from the ground up is both time consuming and expensive.
>I don't know what an engine is
How dumb you are aside, making a game engine from scratch is VERY expensive for modern games.
>Sup Forums - Technology illiterate
>for retro bullshit
fucking mongoloid
the thing is that C as well as C++ are supported by basically everything including toasters. And it puts out fast code.
That's why for example ScummVM - you know that silly "tiny" open source project, which supports tons of games is able to support tons of platforms including older ones.
Because they didn't use retarded C#, but instead C++. And games run fast, even on very weak hardware.
And it will still run on the latest hardware, even when Microsoft drops all support for C#, just like they always do.
>for retro bullshit
yeah, let's re-buy all games every generation.
>Unity works totally on all sorts of platforms
oops, some issue happened with the Wii U target, who the fuck knows what, so we can't release Yooka Laylee on it. Well, who the fuck gives a shit.