It's almost as if Caesar's Legion was made to be nothing more than the bad guys

It's almost as if Caesar's Legion was made to be nothing more than the bad guys.

And yet you can still be on their side. I can't think of many other games that let you just be one of the bad guys.

yeah they were made to be the good guys

They're cliche evil, but Sup Forums tries to make them seem like some complex morally grey faction.

No, F:NV is a masterpiece of writing and gameplay, and totally not just the same shit as F3 with a shitty brown filter on top.

What's inherently evil about wanting to turn the world to tribalism and away from hedonism?

How can it be tribalism if the doctrine of Pax Romana is all for the sake of the empire?

Supposedly there were plans to flesh out legion controlled territory, make it this kind of oppressive but peaceful place, without much in the way of raiders or bandits because everyone's terrified of breaking the legions laws and any raider bands that tried to resist got massacred. Kinda like an inverse of the NCR controlled portion we see, where people are relatively free of NCR control in day to day lives, but raiders and powder gangers are out of control and the NCR isn't able to stop them.

>dude like slavery and denial of basic human rights is fine because like drugs are bad

>but people in the legion still do drugs.

they also talk shit about firearms, yet the higher ranks use guns.

Yeah, they are literally ISIS

>he thinks anything Obsidian shits out has good writing

Because that's not progress. That's willful ignorance and idealized regression.
Fuck, Deus Ex brought up this exact same conversation 10 years before New Vegas.

Would New Vegas have been perfect if they had time to finish it? I'm not just talking plot, but bugs too.

Daily reminder that you can gain rep from Vulpes by complementing the "purity" of Legion's retribution.

I think idea here is that progress is not always the right decision. New Vegas is also not story driven RPG, you can side with anyone you feel has better position

>He believes in objective morality
There's one rule and it's might makes right.

No. A hypothetical version of a Legion-controlled eastern Mohave wouldn't be much more than a larger-scale version of Fortification Hill. Or Nelson.

In terms of conformity, tribalism may also refer in popular cultural terms to a way of thinking or behaving in which people are loyal to their own tribe or social group

>slavery
As opposed to House's monopoly on electricity or NCR taking control of whatever small community the feel like taking control of?

>people in the legion still do drugs
bitter drinks and what else?

Progress is exactly what it is, start anew and give civilization a chance to advance differently than they did before the bombs. Even House says that the pre-war democracy is what led to the bombs

>posting The Mask

NCR are no better remember in Honest Hearts had mentions of NCR taking tribals as slaves

>progress is not always the right decision
Yeah, because we totally don't need infrastructure , and we should totally leave the Wasteland in the devastated state it's in instead of trying to fix things and revolutionize.

Can we all agree that regardless of your end goal, that there are times when the ends do not justify the means, and before you even mention how possible the ambition is if you were to go about completing your ambition in an amoral way, your end result is not worth it?

Fallout 3

>have nuanced "villain"-faction
>i-its totally the same as Fallout 3 g-guys!

Shadow the Hedgehog

I actually agree more with Ulysses's beyond the

>BEAR AND THE BULL

Both the NCR and legion are retarded

Impossible to say. Could be they had plans that were great on paper but if executed would have dragged down the game as a whole, and we actually got the best version possible thanks to the deadline. Or it could have been an amazing game unrivaled even to this day. Either way Sup Forums would regularly find ways to shit on it.

>NCR
>Slavery
I call bullshit

>Even House says that pre-war democracy is what led to the bombs
Because of course he'd say that. I don't know what you've been thinking, but House is hardly the kind of person I would call an objective and reasoned viewpoint on democracy.

Why do people always forget that? NCR were taking slaves and genociding tribals but its legion who are the """"EVIL FACTION""""""

No. There's always ALWAYS cut content for games. The Legion stuff people consider "cut" hadn't even gone past the concept stage. It might have only existed in JSawyer's mind.

Also it would still be buggy as hell even if they had more time.

It's been 200 years, yet there is no infrastructure, nobody fixed shit, only people who enjoy life of luxury are people with electricity in new Vegas and they are not interested in sharing it with others.
NCR has tried to control new vegas, but that was in vain, time for real army to take over.

I dont know if its legit but Daniel says NCR prospectors kill tribals and or enslave them.

Drunk freebooters out of California don't represent all of NCR, shitboot. Additionally, NCR Rangers hunt slavers.

Because maybe, despite how corrupt they are, Legion is still worse than NCR?

>NCR has tried to control new vegas, but that was in vain, time for real army to take over.
Do you really think that Legion would be a fairer hand presiding over Vegas than the NCR would be?

>don't represent all of NCR
They represent NCR no matter in what quantities.
>NCR Rangers hunt slavers
Sure, but they also inslave same people, dress them nicely and push them into battle, but see it's different they don't put them into cages.

Pot calling the kettle black here

>Do you really think that Legion would be a fairer hand presiding over Vegas than the NCR would be?
I don't know, all I know is that legion would probably try to get new vegas, and that is all that matters.

NCR and Legion both suck ass you fuckers left us at the Divide

"Prospectors" is just another name for "rogues". Of course people who don't feel any need to be accountable for their actions would abuse their power like that. That doesn't make them representative of the NCR any more than those bounty hunters who harassed Jacobstown.

Why would anyone stick around a place that was nuked to hell and back?

If you gave money to Bethesda for F3. Yeah, you're a fucking villain.

Well lets see your skin was ripped off and the place is sort of a hell hole but atleast NCR and legion are BFFs in the divide

The lower do too at hoover dam

You think NCR hasn't tried? You think they've never made progress? Even with the strict provisions placed upon them by House, they still have their troops at least partially overseeing the safety of New Vegas. And of course, you forget that they actually do succeed in gaining control of it if they win Hoover Dam.

>Away from hedonism
>Make games out of slaughtering town and torturing people
No.

Yes, I think NCR is too chicken shit to try and actually fight for new vegas.

The true hero of Vegas

They've wanted it enough that they've established a base of operations at Camp McCarran with a monorail system connecting it and Vegas. They've wanted it enough to set up an embassy on the Strip. How the fuck would they be too chicken-shit to fight for it when that's what they've been doing the entire game?!

what happens in a legion run where ceasar AND lanius die?

Which is the best DLC and why is it Old World Blues?

Splinter groups upon splinter groups

or an eastern and western legion forms

They think that if they surrounded the city they could control the intake of the city and by proxy control the city.
They are cowards by nature.

Lanius literally can't die, idiot. It's like doing an NCR run where Moore and Oliver die.

/DEAD/
/MONEY/

Because the game features a morality bar, and if you perform enough good actions then the legion tries to stop you.

Fantastic becomes the new leader and the legion finally evolves into a true super power.

>liking linear pretentious garbage

He exploits the weak for profit.

Literal shit tier.

>F3 and Bethesda are bad meme
You angsty hate filled teens are annoying...

F3 is literally the worst Fallout game, even Fallout tactics and Fallout BoS are better

I guess they wanted to make them more grey. But they didn't want to attract SJW's. It would trigger them like "why did you make misogynists looks like good???" so they instead made them crucifying evil tyranny.

Okay, you're clearly just a fucking edgelord who defines diplomacy as "create a wasteland and call it peace".

>Cowards
Waxing democratic means you can't justify that shit to your people or those you'll come to administer over.

>NCR isn't a good democracy
Arguably, but still, corruption and other blemishes don't mean they're without limits to have much they can bend that capital D.

Nobody expects anime faggot like you to understand philosophy and darker themes.

Should I kill Fantastic after finishing at Helios One? Y/N

>What is the NCR protectorate
>What is the Legion's slaves
>What re House's consumers

>Penis fingers
>Bullet sponge enemies
>Go scavenge this here now go here and do the same thing twenty times
>Dude light switches sexy LMAO
>Annoying robots

i meant hypothetically, numbnuts.

Supposedly they ran out of time to portray the so-called advantages of Legion rule, but it basically amounted to "The trains run on time." So yeah, they're just evil.

>Can't argue anymore
>YORE AN EDGE LORD
NCR can't do shit to protect the people they are government that will come and fuck you up if you do something they don't like, but if group of mad marauders sieges your city, you wont see NCR even try.

>but it basically amounted to "The trains run on time."
Is it Godwin time yet?

>try to bomb you into oblivion for no reason
>threaten you
>call you savage
>command you to help them
>make you pointless walk around big empty places

Is there a group more unlikeable than the boomers?

>philosophy and darker themes

Yeah except I know you never played tactics or brotherhood. I even doubt you played the original 2 fallouts all the way through. You're just a NV baby larping as a NMA fag

F3 is insanely flawed in almost all aspects.
>Graphics
>Aesthetics
>Gameplay
>Physics.
>Story.
>Characters.
>Music.
>Sound effects.
>Stability.
>Progression.

The only memer here is a person who purely calls F3 great because they were between 12-14 years old at the time when every video game is amazing. You have to have some truly shit taste to defend it.

I shouldn't have to argue with someone whose only argument for NCR being incapable of taking Vegas is "because they're weaklings".

>killing the best character in the game

>Give them a bomber
>You now have your own private army/air force
The Boomers are your trump card, mate.

>have stock piles of explosives could probably hold out versus both the legion and NCR
>cant kill some giant ants

I played the shit out of Tactics, real time combat too.
Game was fun, but prone to breaking.

Marked Men needed the radiation to survive.

random ellipses at the end of a sentence is a huge tell that the person using them is utterly retarded

dont forget when they bankrupted social security.

Yeah go fap to 10 years old anime girls

>Music

You mean you didn't like Butcher Pete?

Linear isn't a pejorative anymore. We've moved beyond that. In this age of open worlds, the tight and tuned narrative has reasserted it virtue.

>Pretentious
It's only pretentious if the narrative doesn't put in the work of building up its thesis. The main game and every DLC works toward the theme of letting go or working to resuscitate the past if you were paying attention. DM refines that overarching theme for its own story, prompting players to reconsider the main game and coming DLC in its terms.

Funny how New Vegas shares the same flaws as the ones you listed for 3

He protects his own people. He is like a smaller House, but instead of profit and business, is in it for the community.

>focus almost entirely on explosives and area denial
>have issues dealing with animals crawling inside of your explosives stockpile

no, I said they are "pussies" different thing.
Weakling means they don't have the power, I believe that NCR is more powerful than Legion.
NCR is afraid to loose it's support and would rather let their people live in poverty than fight for their wealth

All worth it to see the bomber flying at hoover.

They're explosive fetishists, not militiamen, and they don't have nearly the numbers to take on a giant ant colony. Plus they probably don't want to blow up one of their main sources of energy just to get rid of a monster infestation.

They're modeled on the Roman empire- the game ends when you explain to their leader that the Roman empire was unsustainable. You literally tell the main vilan that the premises for their empire is retarded. I'm not sure if that counts as breaks ng the fourth wall and is an injoke about the writing being bad.

Nah, in my case it was a way to convey disappointment

Given their history, it's surprising that they didn't degenerate into raiderdom. That's impressive enough on its own.

W
H
A
C
K
I
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>the game ends when you explain to their leader that the Roman empire was unsustainable
Where does this happen? I thought you could only outwit Lanius by telling him he's walking into a trap.

Chris Avellone unironically agrees with that.