Empire vs Stormcloak

Despite liking the Stormcloaks more, we can agree that helping the Empire is the right choice? The thalmor want the Stormcloaks to win so the Empire will be weaker. Empire winning is the only way to have a chance to beat the thalmors.

The correct answer is Thalmor. Fuck Mundus and fuck Lorkhan.

Fucked if you do, fucked if you don't. Also most fucked of all if you let the stalemate continue.
>get rid of the Empire
>Skyrim, a province clearly massively dependent on trade and not one that is on good terms with its neighbours, becomes independent but weak, with no hope of the Empire helping out, should the Dominion commit to a full attack
>also no more Imperial training and experience for Skyrim's best soldiers, all they will ever see of combat is fighting bandits knee deep in the snow
>a spiteful Empire may well try to help out the Reachmen and try to get the allegiance of Morrowind by promising more Skyrim land
>the Empire also loses another province, so if nothing else, this is the final step of its collapse
>Men are fucked

>side with the Empire
>the Dominion gets to continue its power projection through Imperial authority, grudging or not
>this undermines the divine factor that has always favoured humans
>the Empire has to commit resources to keep another rebellion from stirring right back up
>geographically the Dominon has the Empire by the balls, and nothing short of full invasion of Elsweyr and Valenwood will change that

I don't know what Bethesda will do, besides that it will likely disappoint, but things look terrible for both choices. The only way to flip it would be via the Dragonborn basically re-launching the Empire, but even that would be trouble enough to give an advantage to the Dominion still.

The Thalmor wants no side to win so that Skyrim will be weaker.

>muh united empire will defeat the Thalmor

Cool meme. Hammerfell would agree.

>The thalmor want the Stormcloaks to win so the Empire will be weaker

This fucking bait

Hammerfell needed Imperial legions to survive

"The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed."

...

Ulfric seems shady as fuck. Don't trust one word he says.

>obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim
>whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own
>A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided
It's obvious they want to prolong the war as long as possible so it hurts both sides. If it comes down to it, a Stormcloak victory might be preferable to an Imperial once since the Empire is the strongest faction there, and it would hurt them more.

How is hostile, independent Skyrim better for the Thalmor than a neutered, subservient one?

This. Dude's a fucking salesman and doesn't give a fuck about Skyrim, as long as he's king.

"Skyrim, a province clearly massively dependent on trade and not one that is on good terms with its neighbours, becomes independent but weak, with no hope of the Empire helping out, should the Dominion commit to a full attack"

retard the dominion is thousands of miles away and cant even project power to Hammerfell which is far closer than Skyrim, not to mention all the mountains and snow and shit.

Divide and conquer fool. Now they can take Skyrim or the Empire separately with neither supporting the other.

>hostile, independent
this means dick, neither of these attributes give any money, resources, or men for the nords to defend themselves with against a civilization that just took on the entire empire

>divide and conquer
Why divide a centralized empire you already have under your thumbs into hostile local ethnostates? You're not really making any sense.
>they can take Skyrim
And how are they going to go about doing that?

Well ulfric is an insufferable faggot so empire is the only real choice

I'm not really convinced that holding Skyrim is vital to the Empire's survival. The worst case scenario is that the Empire temporarily loses out on a few seasons worth of Nord legionaire recruits and trade, and the only thing the Nords have of value is silver mines. And if the Thalmor apply any kind of pressure to Skyrim, Ulfric will be forced to re-negotiate with the Emperor for a new deal - only as equal independent nations.

+1

tru Nords side with Elisif

What emperor?

It's fact, LITERALLY FACT you stormcuck scum

The Empire of course

>the dominion is thousands of miles away
The distance is not really the issue at hand. The Empire, albeit at a higher state of power, was perfectly happy to plan an invasion of Akavir and a greater distance and were more troubled by the 'convenient' storms far more than the actual distances involved, and had no problem at all in taking Esroniet. To boot we've also had attempts of Akaviri/Tsaesi invasion of Tamriel without a hitch. The distance is NOT the issue.

>cant even porject power to Hammerfell
In their state after the Great War, and with the Empire releasing the Legion serving there, a peace was reached through all the stars aligning just right. It is daft to presume the Dominion's forces so limited, given their previous successes.

And since you did not dispute this point, I take it you agree Skyrim is dependent on trade to keep its shit together? The only real way this is happening that's not basic caravans is by easily blockable sea routes.

>Sormcloak is using a fat-looking, but usable sword
>Legionnaire handles a steel paddle
I forgot how retarded Skyrim's design was.

>Why divide a centralized empire you already have under your thumbs into hostile local ethnostates? You're not really making any sense.

the empire isn't completely under thalmor control, it's made very obvious they're biding their time until they have the strength to openly resist again. a major province seceding reduces their capacity to recruiting bodies.

>And how are they going to go about doing that?

how wouldnt they, with their advantage in military power that they just crippled the empire in a war with, a war that skyrim was a belligerent to

What are the chances of the Elves being fucked over by Pelinal 2.0? Wouldn't faith in Talos be important, as he protects mankind and without faith, humanity doesn't get a nigh unstoppable homosexual terminator.

>What are the chances of the Elves being fucked over by Pelinal 2.0?
none, Whitestrake is a bully

And those "legions" were discharged following the signing of the WTC.

Not to mention that many, if not most, of them were Redguards anyway.

>that they just crippled the empire in a war with

>Imperials have just recaptured the IC
>Fresh soldiers from Skyrim have come south
>Men are still fighting in Hammerfell along with an entire population of angry Redguards
>High Rock has contributed nothing yet and is completely undamaged
>Imperials have decimated the Aldmeri armies and only have the Altmer navy and Bosmer and Khajiit land forces left, who will stay in their territories
They could have gone on to retake Hammerfell.
They could have pushed for peace with absolutely no terms whatsoever.
Instead they go full fucking retard and basically unconditionally surrender, accepting the White Gold Concordat - Dominion gets to stay in Hammerfell, Thalmor get embassies wherever they want, Talos worship is banned and the elven gestapo get free reign throughout any Imperial province. The elves got more freebies than they demanded in the ultimatum that led to the war.
The Empire is in fact weaker now than it was immediately prior to the Great War and and dismantling ASAP is the only chance Men have for survival.

>The distance is not really the issue at hand. The Empire, albeit at a higher state of power, was perfectly happy to plan an invasion of Akavir

Septim Era empire took an abandoned town and got forced out like 2 weeks later, hardly an "invasion"

>In their state after the Great War, and with the Empire releasing the Legion serving there, a peace was reached through all the stars aligning just right. It is daft to presume the Dominion's forces so limited, given their previous successes.

The Dominion got it's ass kicked in the battle of the red ring but because Titus Mede II is a retard who didn't know that elves reproduce much slower than humans, how exactly do you expect the Dominion to try to invade Skyrim?

1. They go through the Cyrodill-Skyrim border if the empire just decides to somehow let them through, where they get Hannibal'd hard by the mountains and just become Stormcloak fodder.

2. They go through the Arctic Sea of Ghosts and get raped by storms and get shot before even reaching the shores

The only real way the Dominion could invade Skyrim and not get assraped by the Nords is to go through Hammerfell or Morrowind, the latter of which would never let them in a million years
and the former would be very pissed off, not to mention I doubt the Empire would let the Dominion have a very favorable position on their last province

>And since you did not dispute this point, I take it you agree Skyrim is dependent on trade to keep its shit together? The only real way this is happening that's not basic caravans is by easily blockable sea routes.

>sea of ghosts

>easily blockable

lmao

do Imperialfags even know what supply lines are.

Seems like Bethesda is going to go for Empire dismantling anyways. I could see the next game being a bit like Daggerfall rebuilding and making a 5th Empire

Really though, the Mede is a bit lame conpared to others
>Alessia is fucked by Akatosh
>Reman is half-hill
>Tiber is a Dragonborn. Talos is simultaneously a Dragonborn, an ancient Nord high king and a supermage

shit I meant High rock not Hammerfell.

SKYRIM. BELONGS. TO(2). THE!! NORDS

They weren't even discharged by the Empire, but by a general sympathetic to the cause. His orders were to completely withdraw from Hammerfell and return to Cyrodiil with all haste.
The empire loves to preach the solidarity of provinces (as long as they can exploit their resources), but they scurry all of their legions back to cyrodiil at the slightest sign of trouble, as is proven time and time again.
It is a disgusting hegemony of rich old fucks sitting behind a round table, nothing more.

The Empire is an Empire in name only.
The AD is few more victories like Hammerfell and Cyrodil from not existing.

Just have both the Empire and the AD collapse and have the backdrop for the next game be Tamriel in chaos.

They're not known to be planning anything, and if they were you can be damn sure the Thalmor would know about it. Imperial leaders can't take a piss without the Thalmor counting how many times they shook their dick.
An independent Skyrim is a Skyrim that is in no way beholden to the Aldmeri and has the right to imprison and execute Thalmor agents as they would with any other foreign spies.
The high elves have a policy of keeping their own numbers in check, their preferred tactics rely on overthrowing and manipulating political leadership in order to seize authority without bloodshed. The only reason they've been able to achieve the power they have by the 4th Era is because the surrounding kingdoms of Tamriel suffered a great deal more than Summerset during the Oblivion crisis.
Furthermore, despite the overconfidence displayed in their dossiers in the Embassy in Skyrim, the Thalmor would actually struggle to keep a divided Empire under control. Without the legions to bolster their numbers, they would be spread too thin and would quickly be beset on all sides by rebellions similar to the Stormcloaks.

With a Dragonborn, the Psijic Order, the Greybeards, the Dragons and even the Blades all having re-emerged onto the political landscape during the events of Skyrim, the Thalmor are no longer the most powerful players on the field, even with the Imperial legions and bureaucracy at the beck and call.
The Dunmer and the Orsimer resent the Altmer, all races of men outright despise them, Argonians and Khajit have bad blood with them, and now the most powerful dragon and the Dragonborn have teamed up to prevent the end of the world, an outcome which the Thalmor actively seek.
There's no need to look to the weakened Empire for help in crushing the Aldmeri, and there's also no need to put up with their presence in Skyrim any longer. The Stormcloaks are the clean break that Skyrim deserves to have.

>The distance is NOT the issue.

The problem with your argument is that the AD is not in the same position as the Empire. The Empire could wage a campaign against because they ports on the Eastern coast of the continent from which it can directly send ships and supplies to Akavir.

The AD doesn't have the same luxury as they lack the necessary infrastructure to invade Skyrim. They need ports, and acquiring them would bring them into wars with High Rock and Hammerfell.

>It is daft to presume the Dominion's forces so limited, given their previous successes.

The AD's campaign in Cyrodiil was utterly crushed during the Battle of Red Ring. After the signing of the WGC, they would later continue fighting against a battered and weakened opponent only to eventually pack up and leave 8 years later.

in other words, the AD is a paper tiger.

>muh trade

The EEC already does business with the Stormcloaks and is currently looking open new avenues with the AD.

If the Empire wanted a trade war, they would have done so long ago.