Who was in the wrong?

Who was in the wrong?

Gabe "i started valve because microsoft was too much focussed on money"" jewell

You, for creating this thread.

Paying modders to make mods doesn't encourage them to make more and better mods?

You for visiting plebbit.

Things driven solely by money will always be worse than those driven by passion. Paid mods changes the relationship where modding becomes work, thereby shittier. Why do you think most modern DLC is trash?

No, you see, i'm an expert at mod making, mods should always be free. I know because I made a couple of maps with Doombuilder once. Why would you want to be paid for a free hobby?

the only good game valve has made us half life
CS 1.6 is OK too I guess

Before, all mods where made by people that just wanted to make them. Now, money hungry faggots are gonna pump out heaps of shit to get money.

I don't know, does paying workers automatically mean that they'll work harder?

Or I could hire someone to do it quicker and better, that's how that works

everything valuable created by humans is driven by money or some other end

the people who built and designed buildings like the Sistine Chapel or the Hagia Sophia or your average geometric mosque in arab land are driven by money. Do you get up for work because you like it? No, you do it to get paid so you can pay the bills and induldge in luxuries.

Gabe and Valve were wrong. Their idea of paid mods hasn't took off.

Do the Beats sound better than the ATH-M50X for $200 extra?

why the fuck is "fucking" blurred out?

>Do you get up for work because you like it? No, you do it to get paid so you can pay the bills and induldge in luxuries.

there are plenty of people who go to work because they like it, for instance those who would otherwise be retired. not working makes people depressed.

No HL and expecially HL2 were ALWAYS overrated.

Because it's inappropriate and I'm at work.

Key phrase there is "solely by money." You can easily have someone do work that is their passion, but realisticly, but for as many Sisitine Chapels or Hagia Sophias you receive, you'll get 5-6 times as many half-assed buidlings made by some schmuck just trying to get a paycheck. Paid mods opens the windows for mod fags who will do the absolute bare minimum to get dosh

Mods are an expression of passion. You make them because you like the game and want to play it in your specific way. When you introduce money mods are instead made for cash instead of passion and their contents are dictated by what the most mouthbreathers want and would be willing to pay for rather than what the modder wants. It also incentivises devs to be even lazier than they already are because they can then make money off the community that fixes their games.

>Editing out naughty swear words from screenshots
Fucking why?

Funny because Valve coming into a shit load of money sure made them make a lot less games.

>It also incentivises devs to be even lazier than they already are because they can then make money off the community that fixes their games.

actually the problem is worse than just being lazy. its a moral hazard. their incentive is to leave it broken and profit from the fix.

I don't want Creation Club to just fail -- that's not enough. I really hope as time goes by it turns into an enormous shitshow full of busy threads oozing with OC on Sup Forums

>Do you get up for work because you like it?
Yes

The point Gabe misses is that money steering work is the whole problem. Oh wow, we'll maybe have slightly better mods? Meanwhile Bethesda base games will get even worse because they get to nickle and dime basic content and have a monetary incentive to half-ass and get extra money from fixes.

It actually doesn't.

If you want to see what actually happens, go look at second life.

Basically: Millions of sex mods, mods that lock you into a mod-ecosystem, and mod-packs that sell you the mod but in different colors or textures.

So imagine 300 mods that are all Ratgar's Deluxe Sword Pack - Pastel, Pink, Red, Purple, Electric, ..., and so on. It's all just one sword in different colors 300 times in the marketplace. If you want his sword in electric, you buy that. Want it in red, buy it again.

For the mod-ecosystem, you'll be seeing things like, can't use x-body-mod with y-clothing-mod because x-creator refuses to share their model's topology with y-creator, so clothing you buy from the mod store only works with specific body mods. Then people will also sell Ripped FancyPants for x-bodymod and y-bodymod as two separate products.

Anyone who thinks paid mods will be good is a delusional retard or a corporate shill. It's going to fucking obliterate the modding community and turn everything into consumerist garbage instead of hobbyist art.

I didn't edit it, I have an addon that does it.

I believe if you filter out uncouthness then you will be more creative and less needlessly offensive when forming your opinions.

I get paid at my work but it doesn't inspire me to do a better job.

It means you will hire better workers.

lol

>Do you get up for work because you like it?
That's what he said - mods are not work, so they're done precisely because someone would like to.
>No, you do it to get paid so you can pay the bills and induldge in luxuries.
Not everyone is a brainlet poorfag, they can indulge in luxuries without thinking about getting more money 24/7

Because going off what happened during the first attempt, once money gets involved you'll likely want to make only easy 1-day skins and cheats for quick money.

So you too can experience the thrill of Judaism and the lowering of human standards. :D

Why spend money to make games when you can sit there and rake in the nostalgiabux from existing IP's, pay other people a pauper's penny to make mods for you and let you collect the majority of the revenue, force every developer to host their games on your platform and take a good dividend of their profit because they have no other choice, and be completely immune to any criticism because your decade-old fanbase rabidly defends you online by shouting things like "m-muh PC mastuh rayce" because you used to make good games?

studies on motivation have shown that objectively measurable accomplishments at work (make x widgets in y time, extra widgets in y time earn you double) do actually motivate people to work harder.

But when your productivity is less tangible, you cannot increase motivation with incentives like this, and once you pass ~70k USD salaries, the primary reason people have for working the job is self-satisfaction and fulfillment. They're not there to work, they're there to contribute to society, improve or challenge themselves, create interesting things, and so forth. Working is no longer about surviving.

>everything valuable created by humans is driven by money or some other end

people actually believe this

gabe is irish, what does what you said have to do with judaism

>Do you get up for work because you like it?
Yes. Though I wish I could get up 1 or 2 hours later.

Faggot

No it doesn't. It just means you can hire people who want to make money. Right now modder does his job, then indulges in his hobby of modding. His mods are high quality because he does it because he likes to do them has the skills to make them good. In work he doesn't give a fuck about the end result, only the paycheck.

...

that's not a problem with the idea of paid mods, it's a problem with Valve's extreme Liberteranism. Imagine if paid mods were implemented but in a gated scenario where only quality content was let through.

>mods are not work

You're sounding like a commie here, if I do a hobby I like, like painting or making content for a Youtube channel, I shouldn't be able to monetize off of it for extra income?

*tips fedora*

CS is utter shit and even Artifuckt is better

What could this be?

In the given example you are not monetizing it. You are making something and then handing it off to a conglomerate to market/sell for you, and then getting a fraction of the money they make in return.

You'd have to be a fucking idiot to buy into this system in the first place

Nothing is preventing you from selling your mods right now.

Only 50% right.

For some reason people fail to grasp the concept that more money is not equal to better work, just to more of it.

There is a correlation between the quality of a work and the amount of money involved, but the causation is with the quantity.

If you offer a higher salary for a paid position then the only thing that would happen is that more people will apply to it, increasing the % that someone that is passionate about it (the actual causation behind good quality) will land the job.

Jesus christ America, stop being so paranoid about communism it's a good system with some tweaks - can't wait for AI overlords
No, I meant that moding is not work in a sense of "source of income". Therefore everybody who does them does so because they have fun with it.

>it's a good system with some tweaks
Feel free to fuck off to Venezuela any time you like

>it's a good system with some tweaks - can't wait for AI overlords
This.

Just a few tweaks here and a few tens of million of lives there and it works.

>Who was in the wrong?

just compare que quality of the work and the mentality of the community from last year with the ones in 10 years
you'll see

I think you meant decreasing.

The problem is that 85% of your money is going to valve for doing no work whatsoever.

it works when everybody is dead. communists first.

The problem is that it's kind of a pyramid system. Workers need to work, so someone has to check that. But who watches the watchmen? So you add more more layers. But with an AI everybody could answer to the same person.

Sure, maybe my grandchild's grandchild will have fun with that.

That's not the only problem, fucktard. What motivates people under communism? Why would anyone push themselves? Why would anyone have any drive to come up with new ideas, new methods of approaching problems? If everyone gets the same shitty home, with the same shitty food, just enough to keep them alive so they can get to work every day, there's no reason for anyone to excel.
Communism is stagnation

>for doing no work whatsoever.

except for hosting, advertising/marketing, and making downloading/installing your product accessible to wide audiences on their platform

That's not communism that's a totalitarian technocracy. Which wouldn't work because someone had to code the AI.

>killing is only bad when communists do it

Can you extrapolate on your utopia? I would like to know what makes you think an AI will make better decisions than a human.

He could be talking about crowdfunding
But in the case of mods, they can be steered but not in the obvious sense, people create whatever mods they like or find useful, theres no external influence there, but those who get a lot of donations and stuff are usually developed further and deepened, it serves as an incentive to the modder himself thus 'steering' work towards said mod.

>alt-right Sup Forums faggots now infect every single board and come crawling out of the woodwork whenever someone mentions that maybe capitalism has a problem or maybe communism wouldn't be so bad

remember when nyancat was funny?

Maybe those discussions would be better done on some sort of political board instead of the one about VIDEO GAMES.

>maybe communism wouldn't be so bad
And lefty-pol are the same. Maybe everyone go back to wherever they came from?

>you have to be an alt-right faggot to recognize that communism is a fucking plague
Capitalism has it's flaws, especially when corporatism starts to take hold, but I'd take it any fucking day over the week over communism

You people made me do this. I just wanted to play video games.

this desu. We'll see the introduction of "Free" mods that intentionally have content cut from them to be sold complete in the "Paid" version. Or, even worse, we'll see mods that you have to pay to get version updates.

Plus, people don't know if certain mods will be compatible with other mods, so it's entirely possible to get in a situation where you paid for a mod that doesn't work with your existing mod set. And if you paid for those other mods as well, then you're just fucked.

Not to mention, if paid mods gets introduced again, what's stopping modders from taking their existing mods off the market and re-selling them for real money? That's what happened last time Steam tried this shit, and it went about as well as you'd expect.

The slippery slope aspect of this is fucking real.

No, i meant increase, a higher salary will attract more people. That includes more people that are passionate about it.

My point is that money does help improve your chances of getting better people, but it still doesnt 100% guarantee you will find them and its not a requirement either. Therefore having mods be free reduces the quantity of the mods but increase their quality.

Its the same thing that happened to "flash games", when smartphones became a thing the number of "browser like" game increased exponentially, the app sort was flooded with hundreds of new games every month. They were all trash though, inferior in every way to the games we had for free during newgrounds golden era.

Relax guys, we don't need communism. We just gotta bring back that badass motherfucker, he'll put the corporations back in their place.

What's the difference between paid mods and (third-party) DLC?

Newgrounds and flash games in general were 99% trash and 1% playable. Don't pretend for a second that good games were the norm.

...

No, the problem with communism is that it redistributes wealth "equally".

Maybe you haven't been paying attention the past few years, but if you have you might've noticed how unfairly and unequally the proponents of "equality" actually behave and act.

What actually ends up happening under communism is the powerful and wealthy get their useful idiots to set up a system that funnels everyone's wealth into the hands of the rich and wealthy. Yes, a large percentage of the rich and wealthy lose and either flee or die, but a select few control the whole thing.

So this money funnels into their pockets, and then gets "redistributed" to their loyalists - not equally, but in ways that expands the power and influence of the already rich and affluent.

This is always followed up by some kind of pogrom to eliminate the useful idiots who've served their purpose. Then comes re-education camps, political prison systems, secret "police" and suicide vans... and voila. You've got a fully functioning communist utopia that is "not communism" because they followed communism every step of the way, but it somehow magically turned into a fucking dystopia that resulted in the deaths of millions like it always fucking does.

Communism is a method of creating a totalitarian state. Nothing more or less.

Maybe it was coded by another AI, and who cares who coded that other AI.

didn't you hear? He was reincarnated.

>pic related

I don't get why people get so mad about this, he's right you know.

No it encourages them to make mods that more people will pay for rather than the best quality mod that they themselves want to make.

>That's not the only problem, fucktard. What motivates people under communism?
The fact that they don't get food or other things nedded in a modern life.
>Why would anyone push themselves?
Why do you want them to? Right now civilized countries overproduce everything.
>Why would anyone have any drive to come up with new ideas, new methods of approaching problems?
Because they would gain benefits from it or because they just want to eg. solve a problem they themselves have.
If everyone gets the same shitty home, with the same shitty food, just enough to keep them alive so they can get to work every day, there's no reason for anyone to excel.
That's why they get a regular house/food? Oh, and don't kid yourself majority of people eat the same food in capitalist countries too.
>Communism is stagnation
Sure.

In my experience, third-party DLC is usually curated in conjunction with the dev team of the game in question. They make sure that the mod is compatible with the game and doesn't affect any saves, progress, etc. You don't get that guarantee with paid (or free) mods necessarily.

Bethesda tried to provide that guarantee through their Content Club or whatever it's called. I see the distinction they were trying to make, and it makes sense in theory. However, in practice it's just a bunch of skins and armor remodels you could already get better versions of in free mods.

>fat jew can't comprehend anyone not being a fat jew
what a fucking surprise
don't buy valve games
don't use steam (I know it's hard)

>why would you want anyone to push themselves towards improving human life or understanding the universe better
well golly why don't we all just go back to mud huts and dying at the ripe old age of 40 while we're at it user?

>Oh, and don't kid yourself majority of people eat the same food in capitalist countries too.
I sure as fuck don't eat the avocado weed toast you do.

You probably haven't touched my protein powder either, leftists don't lift.

Wow look at all these communists who don't believe in the free market. I bet 70% of you voted for Trump (or wanted to if you weren't underaged)

>Paying modders to make mods doesn't encourage them to make more and better mods?

Its more complex than that isn't it. If you add money to the equation then passion projects and little things that people just want to add never happen.

Once compensation is expected before the idea it taints the very reason for the idea existing at all.

This isn't always the case but it is usually what happens as its no longer about someone creating something to share with the world but to put food on their table.
This will intrinsically alter their relation to their creation.

Thats a hyperbole, while its true that a lot of flashgames were shit, its expected since new devs had to start somewhere. You would have to compare those games to the shitty ones in the app store and i bet you the newgroudns era games would still be less shitty.

overall the games were better than the mobile games of today, thats all im saying

Friendly reminder that gabe said in february modders needs to be paid, he is going to come soon with all the damage control he gather from his valve "psychologist" so he can buttfuck the community once again.

I'm not saying it can, I'm saying that if it could then everybody whos job was "management" can be replaced by it and since communism is a giant management pyramid the majority of people can be moved to the positions where actual work is done.

>communist
>voting for Trump

choose 1

>maybe communism wouldn't be so bad
The absolute state of children these days.

>If everyone gets the same shitty home, with the same shitty food, just enough to keep them alive so they can get to work every day, there's no reason for anyone to excel.
Fucking exactly? Why would you WANT a society where no one excels? Are you fucking dense?

i'm in favor of an economics system where people can make money off of their hobbies but their are also tax-paid healthcare/dental and welfare for people who are distraught, especially veterans or people who have long work experiences

I'm probably older than you. Maybe try actually going to college and getting an education and you might be a bit more open minded, and not just accept everything your capitalist masters tell you to.

I didn't say people who voted for Trump were smart or understood politics

I went to university, but it was a real degree, not some marxist brainwashing from a jewish professor.

Why do you want a society where people excel, when inevitably those people aren't you? Do you think maybe you'll be a billionaire too one day? I somehow doubt you will.

This post is just sad.

>communism wouldn't be so bad
but communism was terrible user, why would it be good now?

How much did you pay for your gender studies lectures user?