Fallout vs UnderRail

Did one guy manage to make a better isometric RPG than Blackisle?

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probably not

Underrail has a vastly superior combat system, exploration and much more interesting setting than Fallout, quality of side quests is around the same though Fallout has more of them.
The only thing where Fallout beats it is quality of dialogues. Even then, Underrail has quite a few memorable NPCs like that redpilled pig.

there's lots of independently made isometric or first person dungeon crawlers made over the years that have focus on systems and interactions and they are solid mechanically, but writing/lore/world makes it feel like a throw away old shareware game
I think I played a game made by somebody from RPG codex and they had all the checkboxes of what a rpg should have ticked but the game feels pointless to complete

>much more interesting setting than Fallout
I respect your opinion and politely disagree ur fagget

I haven't played this yet, I can't seem to make a character, because I get too much choice, and it's so open so it dosn't me any imagination.
What are some fun builds?

Any kind of psion for all the cool spells you get.
I played a heavy armor psion and couldn't be hurt by almost everything once I crafted my super-armor.

I prefer Underrail but only because I like OP magic

I get that it can be confusing without classes and shit, but basically you want to focus on one combat discipline and either go full tank or full stealth
This guy has some build ideas. Just don't try to make a jack of all trades and you will be perfectly fine
youtube.com/watch?v=cxG64b5SH_o

Do you want to be a boring faggot? Stealth Sniper

Do you want to play the best scaling and most fun build in the game? Psychokinesis Monk. By endgame you'll be going full Fist of the North Star on everything.

I don't know if psy melee is really a good build for the first playthrough

Stealth sniper is kinda hard to play because it doesn't do so well against groups unless you set up traps first. Sub machine gun builds are much easier and very powerful.

Underrail sucks and goes with the "I'm going to give you the illusion of choice" route.
Crafted gear is the strongest in the game. Period. Meaning you have to waste the majority of your points maxing out the 5 crafting schools.

Garbage game tbqhwy.

Isn't the entire point to go right back to stealth and break combat so you can snipe the next guy?

It's probably not, early game is hell. I played a sledge build for my first character but that got boring halfway through so I restarted.

The really hard fights have way more than 2-3 enemies. Also the max chance to hit is always 95% and it really punishes snipers when you do miss a shot. It doesn't hurt burst firing builds as much.

You have enough skill points to max out 7 skills, and many of them like crafting ones don't really need to be maxed. If your build requires more skill points than that then you built wrong.

How's the classic XP system? Does it leave you at a significantly different level?
I already did a playthrough with the Oddity system. Generally liked it but I think there were too many duplicate oddities so quite often you'd not get XP cause you already got 5/5 rat asses or whatever

Lads what is a good melee build? I struggled with sniper because I was usually overrun by numbers which I couldn't deal very well with.

Classic is too fast, most of the time you'll hit the level cap halfway through Core City.

>If your build requires more skill points than that then you built wrong.
Aka garbage video game design.
The fact is, crafting takes up 5 of those 7 skills. Everything else you said is damage control to cover how garbage that system is.

>Here's 7 skills you can max
>Oh I need to max out these 5 crafting skills
>Well uhh...guess I'll pick...handguns and...wow this sucks, literally choice.
Trash.

Oddity is WAY easier for builds that are weak early like psy monks, it will also put you way ahead of the curve on EXP even if you kill everything.

Classic XP slowly catches up later and you get the benefit of being able to infinitely farm anything that respawns. That takes a long time though.

I ended up getting max level when I got to Core City and thought I could wipe out the Faceless blockade. Kill about 50+ of them before I realized they infinitely spawn

>well over a dozen viable builds
Nigga what the hell are you maxing biology and chemistry for?
Fuck what the hell do you need max tailoring for.
You are so retarded it's bizarre.

>Oddity is WAY easier for builds that are weak early like psy monks
Really? My first playthrough was a psy monk and just doing the thing where you have to reactivate generators was enough to transition me into being able to kill harder enemy groups
Isn't spy monk pretty much the same? No one's forcing you to only use psy fist and melee right away
Yeah okay that does sound silly

depends, you can finish the game easily without crafting
there are tons of weapons and armors that are good enough

as an example, we have the CAU armor that makes deep caverns a breeze, also some good snipers and the powerfist

Why do you need all 5 crafting skills? What fucking build could possibly use all 5? Chemistry and Biology are totally optional and suck for most builds. Out of the other 3 most builds only use 2.

Sledgehammer build.
Biology for the needed drugs.
Chemistry for the traps and explosives.
Electronics for the broken shields and the shock sledges.
Tailoring & Mechanics for the armor.

Which leaves literally 2 (TWO) points to 'customize' my character, 1 of which is spent on melee and the other was spent on traps.

Wew lad, excellent customization there.

You are being overly dramatic. Of course crafting is good, otherwise you wouldn't have a reason to pick it. But to say that you need them, and you need all 5 is pure bullshit. A heavy armored player will have zero need for Tailoring, a stealthy psion will not benefit from Mechanics, any non-trapper/grenadier build will just skip Chemistry and so on.

I have done no-crafting runs before, because that is how I wanted to play. Usually it feels better to make your own weapons and armor, not because they are that much more powerful, but because you make them to suit the specific things you want from it. But if you don't want to craft, the unique loot you find is perfectly adequate and the variety is good. Hell, even crafters prefer some of them on occasion to crafted gear, like the CAU armor or the Power Fist.

Why does your sledgehammer build use traps and explosives

>What are some fun builds?
I'd recommend something relatively simple-but-fun for a beginner, like a gun user. It gives you time to learn the mechanics (from things like the AP system to how to fight best), they're enjoyable and still powerful, and they're not as skill-intensive as some of the nicher builds so you have more discretion as to the skills you take (crafting, persuasion, stealth etc)
I'd recommend either a tank with an assault rifle or an smg stealth/surprise build.

>Biology
It might not be optimal, but it sure is enjoyable to go around ripping things' innards out and calmly harvesting cave flowers to brew into drugs.

I seriously doubt you needed to max all of those skills, much less have all of them.
>tailoring AND mechanics for armor
What.

>tfw high level crafting skills but RNG on loots and vendor mats makes it useless because they're all low quality shit

>I'd recommend either a tank with an assault rifle or an smg stealth/surprise build.


Well post the build my double nig

Great fun
>try to go north early
>get fucked by packs of rathounds and rathound alphas
>come back later
>have fireball now
>cast it
>stealth up while all the rathounds run away
>exit combat and regain all my psy points
3 beetles still fuck me up though

>Sledgehammer build.

Well no. From the sounds of it you played a Sledgehammer-Trapper build. You have made your choice.

And on a side note, even if you maxed all of those which I seriously doubt because that would be very fucking pointless, that is still only 7. Where is your 8th skill?

I'm stashing all my crafting materials and stuff I can't sell cause vendors have no dosh left in my locker in SGS
Is that safe or will SGS get attacked at some point in the story? I don't wanna lose it all

I liked it but its basically incomprehensible to navigate through the map without looking it up on a wiki.

The pathing through tiles is literally non-euclidean and every tile looks the fucking same so I basically lost my fucking mind trying to find somewhere I needed to go for one of the quests one time

>A heavy armored player will have zero need for Tailoring
Factually wrong. Even when going for metal armor upgrades you still need to be heavily invested in tailoring for some retarded as fuck reason.
>Of course crafting is good, otherwise you wouldn't have a reason to pick it.
Not an excuse.
Unique equipment is now rendered useless because you can very easily create your own broken as fuck equipment with no effort at all.
>But to say that you need them, and you need all 5 is pure bullshit.
See I do need all 5. It's the same for every build. You always benefit from having all of them maxed because the dev is fucking retarded and shoehorned all 5 of those crafting requirements into everything.
>I have done no-crafting runs before
And so have I, and that is why I know that it's the inferior choice to crafting, which means you're pigeonholed into wasting 5 skills on crafting if you don't want to be gimped.

Why wouldn't I?

>What.
I'm not seeing what is so confusing. Both of those skills are needed in all heavy armor sets. Period. Both of those skills are needed in just about every armor set actually, even light ones.

>Well no. From the sounds of it you played a Sledgehammer-Trapper build.
Doesn't change anything. It's primarily a sledgehammer build. Having no ranged options would be even worse.

>Why wouldn't I?
Because you are talking about customizing a sledgehammer build and traps are already part of that you massive cumguzzling faggot
Go shitpost about another game

This is mine.
>al phabet
You can leave it in there.

It's safe.

It's kinda disappointing to see so many people compare it to Fallout. Underrail has entirely different focus compared to it and reason it works is because it focused on combat and systems in general.

I like smgs, but they are always a poor mans shotgun in these kinds of games. Stelath smg sounds kinda fun. A simple build woulndt be too bad, as I know nothing of the system, I do play a lot of crpgs tho.
Any input on preferable stats?
Just uise the spec-op build from that crazy russian dude that makes build videos for all the games?

Post a screenshot of whatever it was that you NEEDED 120+ tailoring for wearing metal armor.

Oh, and I forgot, which xp system does that stelath/smgg build prefer?

>better isometric RPG than Blackisle

Nah, not really. It's more a case of catering to a niche and doing a good job with it. People like to pigeon hole "isometric RPGs" as if there's no variety in them and it was all a single genre or something. Lords of Xulima, Underrail and Age of Decadence are VASTLY different RPGs, for example.

>Because you are talking about customizing a sledgehammer build and traps are already part of that you massive cumguzzling faggot
Quite literally not an argument you asshurt apologist.
Crafting takes 5 of your precious skill points and you're pigeonholed into maxing all 5.
The remaining points are irrelevant and you still have no choice considering at the very least one of those points is getting put into a weapon type.

Any high level Tactical Vest armor.
Any high level Riot armor.
Next?

Just in case anyone wondering about playing the game is here: Remember this dude is just straight-up lying.
>get called out on not needing those skills
>NO SHUT UP IT'S NOT AN ARGUMENT THAT I DON'T NEED TRAPS AND THEREFORE DON'T NEED THE CRAFTING SKILL REEEEEEE

>Someone explains why crafting isn't necessary for everyone's build
>S-shut up, n-not an argument!
>Goes back to the same retarded lies that have already been addressed
Being this disingenuous should be a bannable offence.

Neither of those are metal armor.

>Gets blown the fuck out
>Can't deal with it and throws an autistic tantrum instead because his garbage game got called out
Absolutely embarrassing.

I can't imagine how pathetic you must be IRL to be up some garbage literal who devs ass.
Did he send you here to shill his failed game and spout easily provable bullshit?

You are playing a hybrid. You do not need to play a hybrid. Your hybrid uses a skill it wouldn't if it was not a hybrid. Therefore the skill is not necessary, and you customized your build, which is exactly what you claim is impossible. Capiche?

And no, there is no combination whatsoever that would need both Tailoring and Mechanics maxed. None.

Both of those are metal armor. Both of those use mechanics and tailoring.
Pic related for an extra dosing of BTFO.

>You are playing a hybrid.
Wrong. I'm playing as pure a build as possible. There's nothing even remotely hybrid about it.
>Your hybrid uses a skill it wouldn't if it was not a hybrid.
Good thing I'm playing a pure build then and that skill is still completely and utterly necessary.
>And no, there is no combination whatsoever that would need both Tailoring and Mechanics maxed.
You've already been BTFO on this but see the above quote to get another taste.
Heavy metal builds do indeed need both Tailoring and Mechanics maxed out. It's not even up for debate.

>putting metal plates in a vest makes it metal armor
>this requires the same level of mechanics as crafting actual metal armor, as well as the same level of tailoring as cloth armor

Underrail is a good rpg even in terms of text stuff, just get to core city.

Just stop talking to him. He keeps claiming he has to max all crafting skills and that traps and melee isn't a hybrid
He clearly doesn't even know that you just need to hit certain thresholds with your crafting skills cause he hasn't actually played more than 5 minutes of the game

>"w-woooooow just because the thing is filled with metal doesn't mean it's metal armor"
And yes, you need to be maxed out on both to make the best versions of these sets.

So once again. This game has absolutely no choice in how you create your character, providing you don't want to be a gimped worthless piece of shit.

You take all 5 crafting skills, then you pick whatever weapon of choice you wanted to use and you're basically done, your other point is irrelevant for the most part because everything in this game works in pairs so if you don't have one thing, the other isn't worth taking. Like Dodging and Evasion.

Worst character creation I've ever had the displeasure of using.

You don't need to be even close to maxed in tailoring and mechanics since you'll never find materials with high enough quality to require maxing. You can also buff your crafting skills a lot by eating int food and using the workbenches.

>he hasn't actually played more than 5 minutes of the game
lmao, fuck outta here you shitter. I'm better at the game than everybody in this thread. I'm just not a pathetic cunt who tries to damage control for a failed character creation system for my literal who dev master.

Take it from me, this is one game everybody should avoid. The update looks like shit too.
>Wooow lets add water jets, I'm sure everybody will like tho-
Oh wait, nobody wants that shit.

You still need to be maxed even when eating Junkyard Surprise.

Anyone know?

>245 hours
Disregard everything I said. This has to be some form of advanced falseflagging.

Didn't see that post, sorry. Oddity is the better system, no matter your build. The game was built around the oddities system and it encourages exploration cause you can find oddities in any random old container.

It's depends on a trader, no reason to check sgs armory for 100+ gun frames.

user, you are either spewing bullshit for shits and giggles, or you are seriously retarded.

Thanks, now I can start playing.

Don't respond to him

>I like smgs, but they are always a poor mans shotgun in these kinds of games. Stelath smg sounds kinda fun.
Then you should love them in Underrail, user! SMGs area fantastic weapon because they are both burst-capable (great for DPS and has specific feats to enhance burst attacks) while still getting a reduction to AP cost for a high Dexterity (which Assault Rifles don't).
>Just use the spec-ops build from that crazy russian dude that makes build videos for all the games
I haven't seen the video, but it should be fine - Spec-ops SMG builds are relatively straightforward as builds go. I don't want to tell you specific stat numbers because I was far less confident with my SMG build, so I know it was pretty suboptimal, but you'll want Perception and Dexterity as your main stats and enough Agility for feat requirements. Spec-ops and Commando are the feats you'll want to aim for, and otherwise take ones that enhance your burst attacks. Following the guide will be fine.

I would always recommend Oddity, as it was recommended to me. The game is designed for Oddity, it encourages exploration, and there's a good spread of Oddities and experience from different sources so you don't need to be hyper-vigilant for them (unless you want to be)
Sorry for taking so long to reply

Good luck user! I hope you enjoy the game.

>he didn't find the oculus

I was actually curious and started watching the sledgehammer build video. It has you using light armor so you do need max tailoring and you obviously need max mechanics for your sledgehammer. 0 bio and chem though.

Not the metal armor I was talking about AND it still requires an enormous chunk of tailoring.
How will these retarded fuccbois ever recover?

I thought this was focused on guns?

That's just someone else's Psy build. I wrote up my assault rifle one if you're still interested.

Not really, they're decent especially early on but most gun builds scale like shit and have issues with certain encounters, like the final boss.

Sledge builds scale decently well, same with Psi builds, but monks are the hyper scaling build.

You probably need less than 50 actual points in tailoring to reach the required skill with buffs and bonuses from leveling other crafting skills.

Yeah sure, I really have no clue what to go for in this game. Same with the different weapon mods or barrels.

I should have read the whole reply chain, you were referring to a specific assault rifle build someone else mentioned, not the game in general.

Seeing all this crafted armor make me regret spending points to evade and especially dodge.

The most fun build is a pure psi build.

A lot of people swear by stealth sniper, but you do exactly the same thing in every fight and it's just not that fun after a while.

Tell me all about those monks m8.

So let's get a couple of things straight.
>Crafting skills
Essential. Must be maxed unless you want to be playing an inferior version of your character. No exceptions.

5 skills down.

>Defensive skills (Evasion & Dodge)
Can't afford to pick them up without gimping your character.

>Subterfuge (Hacking shit)
Can't afford to pick them up without gimping your character.

>Social (Speaking shit)
Lmao absolutely worthless. Cannot ever pick up.

Which leaves us with Psi and Offense to distribute our few remaining skill points after blowing it all in crafting.
Is this the worst character creation ever put together?
inb4
>"n-n-n-noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo my dogshit gimped build didn't take crafting though! wh-who cares if it's second rated garbage!"

No wonder there's only 19 people in this thread. This game is a joke. All of those skill categories listed above minus Crafting, Offense and Psi might as well be removed because they're irrelevant fluff only put there to give the illusion of choice.
Realistically, what went wrong? Is this why Underrail is never mentioned these days except by your average low paid shills?

Nope, you need max.

You can do both, most builds can afford to max both dodge and evasion as secondary sources of defense.

I'm still waiting for the expansion, Styg.

Enormous my ass. Even if for some retarded reason you made a 5 crafting skill build with INT as your dump stat it would still only need about 60 points to get there with Junkyard Surprise and workbenches. I'm sure even you can realize that is very far from maxing. Admit it user, you are talking out of your ass.

this

next character will have energy pistols + riot shield

I can't afford this already, it's too late.
I have this plus 110 in persuasion on level 20.

All the shitposting wants me to make a character that actually uses all 5 crafting skills.
Is it possible?
I think the scientist build doesn't even do it.

That would be pretty pointless, the high armor penalty would butcher your investment. It's better to go with one or the other.

>Is it possible?
Why not, just get 2 combat skills on top and ignore hacking/lockpicking and the social skills

You can craft leather armor or kevlar vests(without armor plates), they have low penalty.

It's more of a problem of finding a way to use all five in a meaningful way than just having them.

You need well over 100 BASE tailoring, actually.
You also provided a good segue.
Skills aren't the only thing you're limited on.
Stats are also something you get pigeonholed into as well.
Since we've already established that the majority of your skill points are blown into maxing crafting, now we need to butcher our stats by putting at minimum 8 points into INT, usually 10 though. Those 5 points you have to play with when you make your character are immediately gone. Now you have to start gimping other stats to buff your secondary main stats (since INT is always the primary one unfortunately thanks to crafting being required).

Who thought this system was a good idea?

Sure I guess. Heavy armor gunner/crossbow grenadier with supersoldier/bullhead/irongut/etc drug, maybe? You could even take lockpicking and hacking for better component hunting, although mercantile might be a more convenient choice for that.

Oh yeah certainly

This game was rad as fuck and I can't wait for the expansion

No worries, give me a second to format it. Apologies as I don't have a picture or anything to make it clearer; I'm working off a different computer and from memory.

>Barrels
Higher calibre barrels let you fire bigger bullets, which cause more damage but also increase the base AP cost to fire the weapon - which is always a consideration, but a huge deal for characters which use Burst attacks, since there are only some calibre/frame combinations that can Burst twice a turn. Also, each type of weapon frame can only accept certain calibre barrels.
>Weapon mods
Nice little bonuses, but not all of them are equal. Rapid Reloader is incredibly good for Burst-capable weapons, for example. It can be useful to build a couple of different weapons with different frames/calibres/mods for different situations.

There are two ways to build a monk. Both go 10 DEX and puts all their points into it, but the second major stat depends on if you want to go Metal (STR) or Leather with psy (Will). They take very similar feats, pretty much any passive that works off melee strikes plus expose weakness. The leather version scales better but has major issues with stuff that has high mechanical resistance early.

Anyways, by endgame, psy monk using leather can attack 12 times a turn (4 AP cost per hit). Combined with Force Emmission and stuff like Combo Attack you hit almost as hard as a sledge build with each hit.

>my dogshit build REQUIRES 5 maxed crafting skills even though I've been proven wrong several times and dozens of competent builds are easily a google search away
>I guess that means every single possible build in this game must require max crafted skills
>also, one couldn't possibly beat or even enjoy this game without crafting the best equipment available
>therefore this game is shit because I've decided this is the best way to optimize and if I don't optimize this game isn't worth playing

You may literally be on the spectrum.

>Defensive skills (Evasion & Dodge)
>Subterfuge (Hacking shit)
>Social (Speaking shit)
>Lmao absolutely worthless. Cannot ever pick up.
I couldn't figure out a way to incorporate these into a build either. You seem to be dead on.
I pirated the game expecting to buy it due to all of the buzz but this sort of stuff is unacceptable. I couldn't get past that one district when I tried using those other skills and ended up dropping the game and uninstalling it.

>10 INT
>100 base Tailoring

What the everloving shit do you want to craft with 210 Tailoring? You are derailed.

Super Steel Armor plus Armor Sloping means you can go metal armor without much penalty. You can actually get it super low if you also have Nimble.