Let's take a break from praising Sonic Mania and have a serious discussion about its flaws.
At full speed, you always run into traps and enemies. They require insane reaction speeds to avoid, and discourage you from running fast. The Mania team may have replicated the feel of the original Master System games, but the result is a game that's hard to play if you didn't grow up with Sonic.
There's an over-reliance on momentum in this game. It feels less like you're controlling a character like Mario and more like influencing a pinball. Sonic 4 did a better job at streamlining the platforming.
>Lots of bugs, dieing for no reason, going straight through bosses.
>Shameless Sonic Forces tie in which detracts from the quality of the game over all
>Every other boss is a scrolling boss
>Sound design is flawless but music is complete dog shit.
>Actually slows you down to go in ball form
>Sphere mini game is superior to new emerald mini game but gets a back seat to it
There are a few problems
Momentum is what made sonic 3 great. Fuck off and die you piece of uneducated shit
get good
Roll, nigger.
>>Sound design is flawless but music is complete dog shit.
>>Sphere mini game is superior to new emerald mini game but gets a back seat to it
>Momentum is what made sonic 3 great.
Sonic 3 came out in 1994. This isn't 1994 anymore. There are set expectations for how a platforming game handles, and if you deviate too much, you're alienating most of your casual players.
The games had flaws but none of them what was you mention for me. Try rolling more ? I never ot hit by going full speed, at worst Ill miss an alternative route
I don't see why I have to roll. It wouldn't prevent you from running into the hundreds of unfair traps/enemies placed in this game.
Can't we agree that it's imperfect level design?
explain how platformers changed past 94
Nah you're alienating the 3D shits who don't know what is good. Which is fine, let the casuals play something else; its a big industry
>perfect level design means you never run into any enemies or traps
If you actually think Sonic Mania is above 7/10 then I actually feel sorry for you because it must be difficult being that dumb. And no this isn't opinion,it's objective. One day I'll make an 1 hour long video on YouTube where I release all the hard truths about this game because I don't even know where to start when people ask me about this game. I'd end up spending the night typing out endless paragraphs that would go to waste since all the 15 year olds here have no attention span. I've done it before. Well thought out posts that maybe get one or two replies. Why? Because I'm right and people would rather call me autistic and ignore my post than actually present an argument
Complaining about a game that's too hard for you? Buddy, play the Sonics (or other titles) from your generation then. This was built as a nostalgia machine for those that grew up with sonic that don't want bad 3D or modern versions. This game isn't difficult to complete, it is difficult to master. Exactly how it should be.
Want a tip, learn to fucking roll, drop dash, and most of all; learn the levels through repetition. You can avoid the lightning reflexes needed if you learn when to do stuff from memory.
stale copypasta is stale
Just look at how Mario has changed. More streamlined level design, more extra lives and powerups. Anyone can beat a Mario game, but everyone can have fun with it.
Sonic Mania is only fun if you're a Sonic expert. Anyone else will get frustrated and quit after their fifth Game Over in Chemical Plant.
>this entire thread
2D Mario hasnt changed since World, NSMB essentially takes parts from SMB3 and W and mixes them together.
World is also easier then the NSMB games.
Mario was also always fucking streamlined.
Stop posting.
>discourage you from running fast.
then play it slow, dick head
Is this all a big fat meme or are there seriously grown adults out there who are having problems with a game that can be beaten by 5 year olds?
By trying to break away from DIMPS faults they made the game too easy.
I just want to use the extras menu without playing fucking blue spheres. Who the ACTUAL FUCK thought players would want to bash their heads against this shit to use Mean Bean and &Knuckles mode?
No
This is like the third thread I've seen today about Mania being a heavily flawed game. I don't know if you're a different guy than the last two but I'm convinced this is another shitty bait thread.
>sonic expert
>The Mania team may have replicated the feel of the original Master System games
let this video answer your question
youtube.com
>World is also easier then the NSMB games.
Totally disagree, NSMB is straightforward. World had secret exits and all sorts of tricks up its sleeves.
Never had this problem.
Protip: Press down you stupid faggot
>At full speed, you always run into traps and enemies.
But this is wrong.
9/10 and not a 10/10 for the simple fact that 8 of the zones are rehashed.
fuck remixes, save that for a DLC pack. the game should have been entirely new zones.
>Mario was also always fucking streamlined.
That's why Mario has always been more popular. Modern Sonic games have tried to simplify the mechanics to create a more accessible series, but Mania goes too far in returning to its roots.
I feel like Sup Forums doesn't understand that most people can't play retro games. Their steep learning curve was acceptable when games were 2 hours long and you replayed them for weeks. Today, they need to be immediately enjoyable, or people will move on and play something else.
dude you are quite literally not the fucking audience
fuck off
why did you even buy it
Isn't that what the Rush series is?
>I feel like Sup Forums doesn't understand that most people can't play retro games.
They don't have to. Sonic Forces is coming out. This game isn't for 'most players'. Its for me and people like me who want an experience similar to the actual good games. Not every single game needs to be dumbed down for people like you to play it. Its A-okay for this game to appeal to a niche instead of being shit
I had two glitches before, Tails not coming into the boss room and none of my keys working so I had to restart the level
but overall nothing is really wrong with it
>stale bait thread
This must be bait.
You are only correct about the bugs and the Forces tie in.
>in Chemical Plant.
Been seeing a lot of people complain about this but I cleared chemical plant on my first go. What exactly is killing everyone and making it so hard?
Infinite scares me
>fifth game over in Chemical Plant
>The second fucking level
Holy shit you suck at video games. Maybe you should try walking simulators instead.
NSMBU has hidden exits that are hidden in the most bullshit ways, making World its bitch in that regard.
World had more of them though and linked the world in a fun way with all those starworld connections though.
Completing World is generally easier. No bullshit special coins to collect.
You dont even have a point. Mario games have always been harder than Sonic. Actual deathpits that are rare in Sonic and you cant just hold onto the same ring forever.
The only true danger in Sonic is getting crushed and thats not mega common either.
How is it even possible to faster than Sonic?
Play the Advance series if you want a challenge. Most Sonic fans hate it because it is too difficult for them.
>Chemical Plant
Nigga if you're gonna complain about something then complain about the retarded surplus or blue spheres needed for the extras, the main game is fantastic
>dude you are quite literally not the fucking audience
This is what entitlement and elitism sounds like. Everyone should be the audience for a good, well-designed game. The least Sega could've done is add difficultly levels for beginners.
>Mario games have always been harder than Sonic.
I'm not saying Sonic is harder, only that it has a high learning curve. It takes hours to get good at Mania, and normal people don't have that kind of attention span for a pixelated retro game.
The second act's boss has a bug that kills you sometimes even if you beat it.
bait thread but I thought Oil Ocean was completely out of place, from the zone atmosphere to the octo boss ("attacks you in phases" bullshit)
It should have been Ice Cap or something
cringe
rollerino
Cognitive Map foo, do you have it?
Also, Chem plant 2 is an amazing level
I dont particularly have an issue with the difficulty in the regular Sonic games.
I'm just saying that it shouldnt really stop anybody, especially not people who play the Marios.
Also I remember getting launched into deathpits without proper warning in some of the advance games, that was kinda gay.
Getting to the point where you beat that game is easy. Sonic is designed in a way that you get pushed into the babby tier lowest path of a given stage if you fuck up, which is both easier and slower.
It's easier than the Genesis Sonic games, which were literally designed for 8 year old children.
youtube.com
On an off-note, sonic forces looks like it would be fun to play with a friend.
Why do people keep taking the bait?
the fire shield gimmick was pretty sick and the smoke one was alright too, but I didnt really need two acts of that shit.
My only real complaint right now is the music. Its too modernized and they made no attempt to make it sound like the genesis
Literally complaining about tile sets you autistic nigger.
>Play Sonic 3
>Finish level
>Ground crumbles and I fall into hyrdo city
>Play Mania
>Finish level
>Walk off screen
>SUDDENLY IM IN VOLCANO TOWN WITH NO FUCKING EXPLANATION
Loyal fans.
user think about it, it's chemical plant
which part of chemical plant do casuals have trouble with? could it be a part they don't even realize is entirely skippable?
>this shit again
>even now when it's in widescreen
Press down when going fast and it'll kill just about any enemy. Slow down if you're too shit to avoid traps. Very rarely will a trap kill you instantly until very late game.
>high learning curve
>It takes hours to get good at Mania
oh shit hahahahahaha
you are really unironically bad at video games
That's an unpopular opinion. Almost everyone loves the music.
>they made no attempt to make it sound like the genesis
They were going for a Sega Saturn vibe. The Saturn had CD audio.
That's a surprisingly hard to capture moment.
How is he in his walking animation in mid-air? if he popped the capsule, he'd be running off
Rank the classic 16 bit main series sonics from easiest to hardest.
CD>Mania>3&K>2>1
Sonic Mania's biggest flaw is all of the nintenbros shitposting it's threads because they've been awakened to the fact that platformers don't have to be for children and simpletons.
you get warped all the time.
I didnt like the warping shit though, made it all feel disconnected.
games biggest flaw is really how it insists on rehashing so much of the old stuff. the new content isnt even bad.
It's suppose to be a Saturn based game. Also the game has two stages from Sonic CD returning, and CD did not have Genesis styled music like 1-3&K.
My only real complaints are the bugs which will hopefully be patched and Oil Ocean's Act 1 Boss, with the spikes up top and the left and right which you won't know about till he pops you up once. Otherwise it's a fantastic game.
sonic is literally for children though
like, that's not a bad thing, but that's objectively the target audience
It sounds like maybe you should just play Gone Home instead. The game is not that hard.
>Category: Science and Technology
>they can't even upload the video correctly
>spent years of his childhood playing Sonic games
>a DotA pro who never played Sonic can't pick it up in just 30 minutes
>"hahahaha casual git gud xP"
Very mature of you.
Fuck off no one actually played CD but PC shits
>have a serious discussion about its flaws.
>At full speed, you always run into traps and enemies
Stopped reading there. The fact that you're bad at a game does not constitute as a flaw with the game.
Hahaha holy shit
I completed Sonic 2 when I was 11 and Mania is waaay easier.
Git gud pleb.
I mean E says for everyone! Not just kids.
I think a lot of people forget that when they played the old Sonic games as kids, it's all they had to play, so they played it for months and memorized entire levels and enemy/spike placement.
But now a new game is out, and you're going in blind. So of course you're going to die to stuff.
>dota pro
That's like calling someone a laundry pro.
Play Super Mario World's special stages without dying.
They were pretty liberal with the spike crush deaths in the last two levels.
If even a pixel is near a spike, it counts as a death.
Also I didn't like the reliance on the "member this? Well here it is in a different level!" faggotry as opposed to original ideas. Chemical Plant 2 was great but so many levels just lifted gimmicks from other levels.
>"At full speed, you always run into traps and enemies. They require insane reaction speeds to avoid, and discourage you from running fast."
This is the problem with every god damn sonic game you idiot.
It's fucking science how one person can be so bad at a video game.
Bitch I beat Sonic 1, 2, and 3&K when I was 10 in two weeks. I hardly even remember that shit because I moved on from it so fast, are you seriously implying the games are hard?
We want to talk about our game, even if it is arguing against an imaginary boogeyman.
>no Zone transitions for most acts
>lackluster true Final Boss
>cannot use Peel Out + InstaShield in a Save
>Denuvo
>no online play
These are the issues IMO.
How do i report bugs to the team? I have ran across many
And Mario games if you're pressing B
sonic was always one of the easiest series back in SNES/Megadrive times.
like seriously. with other games many didnt even expect you to finish them ever but Sonic is cakewalk tier.
>Play Sonic 1
>Finish level
>Screen fades to black
>Suddenly I'm underground surrounded by water
It's almost like they were going for CD sound quality you ponce.
indeed
>spindash + upward slope + jump = ???
it's such a simple concept that saves you a lot of pain, why don't people understand it is beyond me
>A learning curve is bad
>"Gee why can't I immediately get gud at this series I've never played!"
Casuals are the fucking cancer of the industry.
I guess that makes the dev teams who made Mania PC shits according to you.
I see where you're coming from, and I do get the impression Whitehead made this game for his buddies on SR that fetishise CD. It doesn't feel like a Sonic 3K sequel so much as CD2 at times, and the original levels really hammer that point home
>The Mania team may have replicated the feel of the original Master System games
Post your favorite Mania song
Doesnt work as an argument.
Mania takes place in many islands and a little planet as opposed to just one place
I hope you're baiting, because as anyone who isn't a complete retard knows, that's the entire point of Sonic games. If you want Mario, play Mario.
No, after you have played a bunch of Sonic games you gain different habits from them compared to other platformers. You get a sort of intuition on when an enemy could be coming or when to jump. Does it mean your gut will always be right? No, but the original Sonic games were not like the standard 2D platformers at the time.
It is okay to want a platformer that makes you feel like you have immediate control over something that is much more physics based which may make you think a bit on how you hit an incline, how to build up speed, or how to launch yourself.
I've noticed Sonic apologists are always pointing to the Genesis games as the "original classics". They always conveniently ignore the original Master System games, which had more Mario-like platforming and very simple physics.
The pinball-like momentum is a gimmick they added later to differentiate themselves from Mario. It had nothing to do with good design, and there's a reason it's not present in modern games like Sonic Generations. It's just not fun.
>Cut Amy and Metal
>Original Chaos Emerald designs were going to be used
>Cut Hyper Emeralds
This shit bothers me more than anything in the actual game.