Muh metroidvania but environments all look generally the same

>muh metroidvania but environments all look generally the same
>slow menus with input lag
>doesn't recognize xinput
>awful settings options, awful optimization, awful loading times and stutters due to in-game loading
>music and environments are dull and have no real variety
>every time you get hit it's annoying as fuck
>level and enemy design is deliberately annoying to navigate due to the dev's desire to make a souls metroidvania, meaning he creates artificial difficulty for the 'souls' aspect and tons of unreachable paths everywhere for the 'metroidvania' quota.

seriously this is the most annoying game to play. I played symphony of the night earlier and it was the most addictive game ever, this is like the opposite

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I don't know, I'm playing it now and would say the music is fantastic. I could do with less vague "we are aping Dark Soul as hard as we can" dialogue but I think the atmosphere is engaging, and the setting a fun one.

Also I don't really understand how the environment is deliberately annoying. Its deliberately designed to impede you, but with wall climbing and dashing you can zip by basically everything.

>xinput
Werks on my machine

So is this a Hollow Knight thread or what?

>music and environments are dull and have no real variety
confirmed for having not gotten out of the first area
>every time you get hit it's annoying as fuck
confirmed for having to git gud

>deliberately annoying
environmental hazards and enemy patterns

for example, there's 2 separate platforms, A and B and a gap between them that you have to jump, but platform A has a little slab (lower height than the platform) on the end of it, so when you want to jump, you just fall onto the little slab and that's exactly when you press the jump button (that now does nothing) and walk off the ledge

enemies that are just annoying to fight, where trying to learn their pattern and having patience and utilizing timing is way less effective than just charging them

one time I was caught between those 2 enemies in the forest area (the ones that after being hit or after dying trigger an explosion that blocks out the area with orange smoke), I couldn't see where I was within the smoke and I had low hp, so I just ran from them and as soon as I had some distance on them, I used the healing power, whereupon I was immediately killed by a venus flytrap hidden in the ceiling.

It's just designed in the most annoying way ever. It's such a huge contrast from Symphony of the Night

>enemies that are just annoying to fight, where trying to learn their pattern and having patience and utilizing timing is way less effective than just charging them
That's definitely not true for me. I wouldn't have beaten the arena if I hadn't taken advantage of openings to heal, for example.

The venus flytrap things have audio and visual tells before striking, not sure what to tell you there.

Also Symphony of the Night has shitloads of repetitive environments, and the upside down castle is more tedious than anything I've encountered thus far in HK.

>I wouldn't have beaten the arena if I hadn't taken advantage of openings to heal, for example.
I recently beat the boss that gives you the dash move by just rushing and spamming attack on her a few times. Every time I tried to sit there and exploit her openings, she would do attacks that would break her pattern, like where she throws her spear and it would actually reach you when you're up against a wall (whereas every other time she throws it from a position where if you're far away from her it won't reach you).

Dark Souls and SoTN are 2 of the best games ever and are exceptionally designed, and are not difficult in any artificial way.

I also loved the inverted castle in SoTN because it totally changed the way you play the environment and it enables you to enter a higher-level-play just at a time when you've become over-leveled and confident in your ability, because now the enemies are all strong again and you need to constantly use more complex moves to get around (flying, super jumping, wolf running, dashing, double jumping).

You mean the second boss, Hornet? The one that you get to before you have access to any special skills? That's the boss you recently beat?

y-yes

Yeah this game was fucking annoying.

Alright, I just wanted to clarify. I would say that the bosses (and combat in general) get more engagin and fun with the addition of dash, but if you don't like the game, I doubt I'll be able to sway you.

it gets a lot better after three or so areas

i'm not as gaga about it as a lot of people but it's a really, really solid metroidvania

I really want to like this game, but every element of the pacing and design is frustrating me. Every time I get a jump wrong or get hit, I don't really feel like it's my fault, I just get really annoyed.

I'll keep playing for a bit, but it doesn't seem like there's anything to look forward to. All areas look samey, even if the ambient color is sometimes different.

Tell me, is there something to look forward to at all? In SoTN yo were constantly looking to make Alucard even sexier and to see the new super unique areas of the castle, his movement was so tight, especially dashing, and you're like "oh, now I can clear this room more efficiently with the wolf run, now I can double jump onto this area, now I can kill this enemy type with 2 hits instead of 3"

play aeria of sorrow. This game looks like shit in comparison and is probably the work of shills

Why Aria of Sorrow? I've heard people say it's the best, but looking at footage of this GBA game doesn't tell me so. How can it be better than SoTN? Alucard was probably the best controlling player character I have ever put my hands on

>Tell me, is there something to look forward to at all? In SoTN yo were constantly looking to make Alucard even sexier and to see the new super unique areas of the castle, his movement was so tight, especially dashing, and you're like "oh, now I can clear this room more efficiently with the wolf run, now I can double jump onto this area, now I can kill this enemy type with 2 hits instead of 3"
Not who you were talking to but there's lots of that in the game. The dash alone gives you a lot of access to areas previously not accessible. I havent finished it yet, but as far as I know there's at least 2 more abilities you collect that open more areas. If you just beat Hornet, you'll realize pretty soon that there's even something simple you can do to give you access to different areas.

As far as customization, the charms give you nice ways to experiment. Some are just stats upgrades and some give you unique abilities. But nothing I've found so far changes your appearance.

There are weapon upgrades.

I'm enjoying everything about the game mate so I don't know what else to say.

for me, it's GOTY

Only valid thing you can complain about is slow menus. Everything else is just false.

>opinion
>opinion & lie
>lie
>lie
>opinion
>opinion
>opinion

Look at that I gave you a "you"

Still mad the dreamers aren't bosses. Every other boss feels like a midboss building up to them.

The input lag may not be your fault, there's a bug (kek) in the game where some controllers won't respond at certain times there are fixes, also make sure you turn off vsync it messes with the fps

how dare he have opinions

t. guy who loves HK

Yeah, that's part of the Metroidvania formula. I was asking because I just haven't seen any of it yet. The artstyle and animation is great, but the visual design of every area is samey, and the sound design and music didn't hook me at all, plus the charms only give you 3 slots, one of which is the compass, and some charms take up 2 slots. What the fuck.

fucking game

>plus the charms only give you 3 slots
you can unlock more

I liked the design of all the characters. Bug aesthetics were good.

I wish this game had about 50% faster movement

A sprint button definitely wouldn't have hurt

>muh metroidvania but environments all look generally the same
Nah that's bullshit and you're a shitposter.

I got halfway through the game and dropped it, the combat was repetitive and the world was just 1 big corridor.

It feels fucking plodding compared to Dead Cells, which really sucks considering I bought both at the same time.

dashmaster charm
walljumping resets your dash
use dash down
there the game is GOAT

There are ways to increase the number of slots. so I wouldn't worry about that. In addition once you have explored areas already you will need to use your compass less and less.

>but the visual design of every area is samey,
The look of zones starts to change more and more as you go through the game. I mean you've only seen 2 zones so far right?
The Forgotten Crossroads and The Green Path? Are you really going to judge the entire game on 2 zones?

>1 big corridor

How the fuck?

>The artstyle and animation is great, but the visual design of every area is samey, and the sound design and music didn't hook me at all, plus the charms only give you 3 slots, one of which is the compass, and some charms take up 2 slots. What the fuck.
I feel like you're two hours into the game and expecting a bunch of crazy shit out of the gate. At 7 hours in I found the double jump. Believe it or not, you do get skills, and upgrades, and find shit if you explore.

Also you can jam in an excess badge at the cost of dmg doubled to you

Don't forget you can also overcharm

>just roll everywhere, it's faster than running!

Even if I didn't loathe that kind of bullshit, how many years will it take my faggot sissy bug to collect all that garbage with his default speed?

its a metroidvania. what the fuck did you want from the combat
the fact that you can attack in three directions and use 3 spells is tons of variety already.
>1 big corridor
truly ebin. by the way, beating the first boss isn't halfway

Yeah the game is actually fucking huge

Roughly 40 hours

theres very few times where your only option is to run forward, and then i agree spamming dash is boring.
but come on. after you get walljump thats the main way to progress in every area afterward, and it's really fun to see how quick you can get through that one room in deepnest

Just use super dash on the open areas, there are enough of them where it pays off.

Symphony of the Night is honestly piss-easy though. It's still a really nice game but the challenge is just non-existent, and part of being challenging is also being frustrating.

I don't want to just reduce it to "get good" but in order for a game to feel like a legitimate challenge--and therefore make completing it feel like a legitimate accomplishment--parts of it have to be designed in a way that don't feel fair. Shit fucks you up, you get mad, try again, and eventually you learn how to beat it. That's not to say that the key to making a good game is to make it as irritating as possible, but I think there's some leeway when a game is making a conscious decision to be difficult.

I was with you untill
>he creates artificial difficulty for the 'souls' aspect
now you just seem like a little shit who only hated the game because it had some actually completely fair challenge because that was a thing both HK and souls did well

I've seen 4 zones or so (excluding the very first zone and the town zone, which are unique because they are not underground), they are indistinguishable, aside from ambient color (blue, green, pink, etc). It's all like 1 tight corridor, you can't jump on platforms from directly below them, it's just very claustrophobic and reinforces the annoying things in the level design

In Dark Souls, things were simple at the start so you can familiarize yourself with the mechanics and how the game generally wants you to play. Hell, in SoTN you get to play as Richter and powered-up Alucard right at the beginning to know what the game is really like, before having it taken away.

HK starts and I'm already going through claustrophobic underground corridors, I only have 4 hit points and I'm forced to jump on small platforms and avoid hyperactive enemies, and forced to spend my early souls on things I should already have to begin with (like a fucking map). I bought 2 mask shards and my health only increased on the first time. What the fuck.

>At 7 hours in I found the double jump
SEVEN hours to get the double jump? I have heard this game is big, but really? Nobody thought this was way too long? In SoTN you get it like, after 1 or 2 hours.

>music and environments are dull and have no real variety
Here's your (YOU)

>nobody thought this was way too long?
Mother fucker, why don't you try playing the game before you complain about it being too long? And you can probably nab it earlier, you just need to explore and find it yourself.

Jesus fucking Christ if you're going to keep bringing up SOTN I'm going to harp on that piece of garbage called the Inverted Castle, which was just padding for the sake of padding.

best metroidvania ever made coming through

Fuck off pedo

...

>How can it be better than SotN?
By actually being good. Brain dead difficulty, long horizontal corridors filled with nothing but enemies that are frequently traversed (like the one outside of Clock Tower), trivialized platforming and the Inverted Castle being more of a chore than fun make SotN a 7/10 at best. Anyone who thinks that game is well designed is quite frankly a moron, yes it was influential but it's not even a top 5 Metroidvania.

>there are people defending the shitty "muh gray/blue/white corridors" environments
wew l a d

The map is sexy as fuck though, seriously.

imgur.com/EfjKmhP for fullsize

I also thought SoTN was generally easy, but I had save-states, so whenever I arrived at a challenge, I knew I wouldn't have to deal with the bullshit that is a game over in that game that forces you to the main menu and forces you to your last save point. Still, I found some challenge in the early parts of the game, and the early parts of the inverted castle. I think the general ease came from the movement system being so good that you can efficiently dash and gauge effective range with the sword+dash so well.

>part of being challenging is also being frustrating
> in order for a game to feel like a legitimate challenge--and therefore make completing it feel like a legitimate accomplishment--parts of it have to be designed in a way that don't feel fair.
while what you said is interesting, I think you're somewhat off on this. Difficulty in general I think is subjective and can even be attributed to semantics. After all, a 2nd playthrough wouldn't be as difficult. And that's where I think the difference between HK and the games it's trying to emulate are. Dark Souls and SoTN are fair in their challenge. Look, going through an area in Dark Souls and getting to the boss and beating him is an undertaking, but it's fair. You're aware of your surroundings, you don't rush, you gauge enemy distance, you maneuver the environment. Dark Souls is just a game that expects common sense from you, even if it does have a few beginner traps.

HK feels like it's just creating artificial difficulty, with the examples I mentioned early on in the thread showcasing that they're just trying to frustrate you unfairly and normalize that feeling, as opposed to expecting common sense from you. That, and also a lack of game design experience. The movement itself seems unrefined. I like the jumping altitude, but the x axis movement is very floaty and the camera tracking is all fucked up.

It's not even fair to compare this to a game that had real designers work on it

>Dark Souls is fair with its challenge
3/10 bait, apply yourself.

t. Never played the game

Post more cute bugs.

Yeah but the inverted castle was great until you become over-leveled again. Going through it is genuinely a totally different experience than the normal castle. It got fucked up when I gained like 60+ max HP for beating 1 boss (which is like the equivalent to 15 level ups). Otherwise excellent, and it's optional anyway.

...

Always said it is shit.

>exceptions exist, therefore a general assessment is no longer possible

>>muh metroidvania but environments all look generally the same
"I quit the game 4 hours in"
>>slow menus with input lag
Works on my machine :)
>>doesn't recognize xinput
Works on my machine :)
>>awful settings options, awful optimization, awful loading times and stutters due to in-game loading
Literally all works on my machine :) except for very short freezes every ten minutes or so which can get annoying
>>music and environments are dull and have no real variety
"I quit the game 4 hours in"
>>every time you get hit it's annoying as fuck
Yeah. Don't get hit
>>level and enemy design is deliberately annoying to navigate due to the dev's desire to make a souls metroidvania, meaning he creates artificial difficulty for the 'souls' aspect and tons of unreachable paths everywhere for the 'metroidvania' quota.
This isn't true at all. Every area has straight-forward level design, as well as some areas you very clearly can't access without an ability you'll get later in the game.

Yeah I bought it soem time ago
I can undertand why some people like but is terrible overrated

Just curious, which version are you using?
I played the GOG version and had 0 problems

I found Crissaegrim from almost instantly in the inverted castle. I assumed it was just a standard drop and was very confused when the game became trivial.

I replayed it at a later date without it, but even the sword in the waterfall (the one with the command attack) is ridiculously powerful.

Exactly what I thought until around six hours in, now it's my GOTY

>start this game
>no map or anything
>touch you and get hurt enemies
>all the NPCs are just filler whatever characters
>no indication of where you're supposed to go and do
>all the routes are blocked off or inaccessible
>Oh look there's what looks like it could be a helpful character but wait no its just a crying caterpillar man YOU CANNOT INTERACT WITH
>hurr durr this game is 10/10

No this game is boring, aimless, monotone colors and weak in its mechanics, gameplay, exploration 0/5

>OP cries about all zones looking the same
>OP cries about artificial difficulty even though every enemy has a blatant attack queue
>OP cries that it's annoying when he gets hit
>OP later reveals in the thread that he's just beaten the first Hornet fight and has barely had any gameplay progression whatsoever yet

nothing to see here

>invest [unspecified number of hours higher than 4] hours for the game to become good
>w-works on my machine guys :) despite people with 970's reporting lag on a 2D sprite unity game, e-except I get stutters too
>they created a game where it's very annoying and gameplay interrupting to get hit, so don't get hit :)
excellent

>no indication of where you're supposed to go and do
AHAHAHAHA

>boring
"I quit the game 4 hours in"
>aimless
"I quit the game 4 hours in"
>monotone colors
"I quit the game 4 hours in"
>weak in its mechanics
"I quit the game 4 hours in"
>gameplay
"I quit the game 4 hours in"
>exploration
"I quit the game 4 hours in"

The game only has three flaws: periodic freezing, damage on enemy contact, and not doing a good job of making the very beginning engaging to new players

>periodic freezing
???
>damage on enemy contact
So you want the player to be invincible?

glad to hear that
I have to drop it because I didn´t really like the gameplay

so you admit that the game is not good even after FOUR HOURS? how much time do you expect a person to invest before being compensated?

1. 90% of people who have really played the game will tell you it gets better once you make it out of Forgotten Crossroads. I hated the game and refunded it at first. Sup Forums shilled me into buying on sale again and I learned to absolutely love it once I really tried
2. I have a 970 in my computer right now and have never experienced any technical annoyances others than those very specific freezes. I wish they were fixed too but they aren't bad enough to ruin a great game.
3. Yes, they wanted to really encourage players to learn the right way to fight the various enemies, so that very noticeable hit pause to really make taking damage wince-worthy and unpleasant. Their other option would have been to make all damage more devastating to the player, making the game harder, but that probably wasn't the vision for the game they had

Imagine being this sort of seething cuckold. Imagine shitting the bed to this extent because your garbage game gets called out for what it is - a steaming pile of shit lmao.

Let's look at some facts concerning Hollow Shite.
>Non existent difficulty
>Piss poor OST composed by some literal who that clearly can't make good sounding audio for shit.
>Flash based artstyle akin to binding of isaac (large outlines, 0 detail, 0 shading, just simplistic looking shit that your average deviant art novice could shit out)
>Comic relief enemies and bosses that cater towards the braindead Undertale crowd, rather than being intimidating
>Shit rewards for exploring
Woah...I got shit filler-tier crest I'll never ever use....simply epic...
>Juvenile lore made so that retards can develop their own head canon because the devs have so little faith they can make some actual worthwhile lore
>No optional hard as fuck area at the end of the game so that elite players like myself can actually extract some fun out of this dull mess of a game
>Fanbase comprised of nu-male, undertale loving cucks.
Not everybody likes playing baby mode easy shit.

I didn't either, I thought it was floaty and awful. I spend my first try just wishing I was playing Shovel Knight instead

But I swear, once you make it out of forgotten crossroads, the game will rope you the fuck in and you'll really start to understand the genius of the combat

lol imagine being this mad

Yes, I do admit that. It's a big flaw the game has, I'm not going to pretend it isn't there just because I love the game. My point is that once you make it out of the uncertain beginning, you won't regret playing the game up until that point

Not that guy, but I would argue against that. My appreciation for the game was fully realized when I got to Greenpath, just after the Crossroads boss. The monotony of the environment that the Crossroads goes away for a much more vivid greenery, more interesting enemies and more interesting aesthetics, and background music that really reaches into you. You also get the dash there from Hornet for needed mobility. Entering Greenpath is like an hour into the game, hour and a half maybe provided you are exploring around and don't already know where to go and don't suck at the game.

HE'S HERE

>So you want the player to be invincible?
No, I want a fighting game, not a platformer. You should be damaged by enemies' attacks, not bumping into their bodies. You could even change the enemy attacks to be more difficult to balance out the change, I wouldn't care. It just doesn't fit the core mechanics of the gameplay at all

Based shitposter kun
Teach me to be a master of falseflagging like you.

>Terraria
Every. Single. Time.

Dunno i hated it for the first three hours but now it's one of my favorite games, the world and atmosphere feel palpable. I also love the ost and listen to it quite often, the areas felt really distinct, especially from a gameplay perspective, most of them have a gimmick that will stand out, I believe i can also name all of them. The secret areas were aplenty and felt meaningful thanks to trinkets and interesting characters that you meet there. Even the collectibles had two plot twists about them.

well, maybe I can give it a second try then

>I want a Metroidvania to not be a platformer
Is this the state of neo-Sup Forums?

My biggest tip for learning to love the combat is learning to bounce on enemies and obstacles with your sword. It's endlessly satisfying once you nail the timing

la mulana is a fucking myst-like retard, not a metroidvania

>pretending Hollow Knight doesn't draw loads of inspiration from Dark Souls and action fighting games as well

>That awkward feeling when marrow really did turn out to be one of the best metroidvanias
>TFW La-Mulanafag turned out to be pretty cool and added me on steam to help me get through it

It's a weird forest funkish sort of feel

Yes, but it's still a Metroidvania first and foremost. The combat is much more reminiscient of games like Super Metroid than it is of Dark Souls.

Only game I have steam refunded. The movement was clunky, the combat was clunky, the map system was absolute garbage, picking up a million fucking currency items was garbage, the fast travel was shit. I couldn't stand that game and everyone praises it like the second coming of christ.

Ori and the blind forest is a billion times better

Easily the best taste I've ever seen. I'm surprised anybody on a board as casual as Sup Forums would like such great games.
HK is awful.

user i only have one thing to say
how the fuck do they expect me to survive the upper right of the basin, and then make it past the ocean of blood

>Yes, but it's still a Metroidvania first and foremost.
In exploration and level design, yes. You're correct. In terms of combat and game mechanics, the game is far more in-depths than most metroidvaniass and is supposed to be about fast reactions, angled attacks, dodging, and powerups that completely alter combat gameplay, rather than just the damage dealt or certain resistances.

>basin
where do you mean? sewers maybe? or reservoir?

Oh, hey DSP, didn't notice you come in.

did he actually play HK?