Twilight Princess is the best Zelda game because it has the best dungeons

Twilight Princess is the best Zelda game because it has the best dungeons.

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Why the fuck didn't they remaster the soundtrack in the HD version. It could have had one of the best soundtracks in the series fuck this gay shit
youtube.com/watch?v=8zZI06agBCg

Reminder.
youtube.com/watch?v=7PHwym5QKMc

Ocarina of Time still has the best dungeons. But TP's dungeons are alright.

TP arguably has the best dungeons in any of the 3D Zeldas. But Zelda is about more than just dungeons.

Oracle of Ages had the best dungeons.

Nope, the dungeons are very linear and largely feel like retreads of Ocarina of Time.

I wish they'd use the more realistic TP style graphics more in TLoZ games instead of the cartoony style we've been getting. Pretty good game through nostalgia goggles though, haven't played it recently enough to really judge it.

You realize the Divine Beasts are the only non linear 3D Zelda dungeons, right?

literally the only good thing going for it

OOT and MM have better dungeon layouts

Nope, you can open locked doors in different orders in the Forest Temple.

No. The dungeons and their level design is literally the entire appeal and selling point of Zelda games.

Remember when nintendo scared the ever loving shit out of us?

No you can't, you can collect three keys in an order but you are always gated behind a single locked door. That's true of all 3D Zelda games.

it had some cool dungeons ideas but they were executed oddly.
basically every dungeon doesn't use items you got in other dungeons.

it makes you wonder about the game's development and if they wanted players to just hit the temples in any order at some point?

It has one good dungeon. Skyward Sword has better dungeons than Twilight Princess.

maybe for you user, but there has always been the exploration factor (which dominated the original zelda)

Temples like Lakebed were really good. This game has Snowpeak Ruins fetching worthless shit and Forest Temple fetching retarded monkeys too.

Going through dungeons is exploration.

The first 10 hours are shit

nah son, nothing beats playing OoT with mom and that satisfying sound of running and sliding around the frozen domain

No, the forest temple is still very linear. The divine beasts are the only non-linear 3D dungeons but then again they have completely different structure to the others.

Does TP even have any where you change the "state" of the dungeon to traverse it? Those have always been the most interesting ones.

This. Everything from concept to artwork to music to puzzles works perfectly together in complementary fashion.

For example, it's pretty cool that "childhood" dungeons are mostly natural wonders, and then as a "big kid", they become man-made, the puzzles reflect that. The mechanics reflect the story a la SotC.

>Pretty good game through nostalgia goggles though, haven't played it recently enough to really judge it.
It's still good, if you can make it past the dreadfully long intro and lighbulb collection

Overworld exploration is exploration too.
Lakebed Temple has a revolving staircase.

They're just one big room with some connected tidbits and no challenge, far inferior to old dungeons

Lakebed Temple

The game has a temple similar to the Water Temple early on.

I get thought this was parody but there actually is an unironic Farty Synths track

it's called jazz IDIOTS

Reminder that
My favorite Zelda > Your favorite Zelda.
It has its fair share of retarded moments, and Gaondorf as the big bad was still the worst decision I personally feel they made, but otherwise I really enjoy it. It also has my favorite OST out of all of them.
youtube.com/watch?v=WsVT_-RsONg

>The dungeons and their level design is literally the entire appeal and selling point of Zelda games.
Then you don't know shit about Zelda.

onkyokei as fuck

MM is the shittiest 3D game exactly because it has so few dungeons and they don't make up for their low quantity with quality.

it's atmospheric as fuck tho and has some GOOD ost moments
youtube.com/watch?v=s0krxH0dWhU

>Wind Waker physics with grittier/more realistic graphics

good game tho

I think Ganondorf being the big bad was necessary, Zant was always meant to be a poser usurper king who was nothing without Ganon backing him up. the problem is that Ganondorf is awkwardly implemented and he isn't fleshed out as a character at all, he just shows up at the top of Hyrule Castle with zero fanfare.

Ganon has never been a super complex character outside of a few games but in the most story-heavy and talky game in the series having such an undeveloped big bad is one of the worst aspects of its narrative.

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Yes they do.

MM has the best dungeons though.

How do you guys classify what a "good" dungeon is?

Sources state TP was deliberately written as a love letter to the format of all Zelda games prior, because they always intended the game afterwards to be something radically different. Zant = Agahnim. But you're right, the story is very poorly presented.

>Zant was always meant to be a poser usurper king who was nothing without Ganon backing him up
Because Ganon was in the game. If he wasn't then they simply could've written Zant without needing Ganon's power.

A good Zelda dungeon is a combination of

Art design
Atmosphere
Clever layout
Indigenous Enemys
Taxing puzzles
Item progression
Set-piece moments
Epic Boss Battles

A Zelda dungeon should feel like an ordeal, so that when you eventually emerge blinking back into the sunlight, you feel like you've grown - become more empowered.

youtube.com/watch?v=WvPjJdqbSc8

vangelis as fuck

fuck no. skyward sword, ocarina of time and majora's mask all have better dungeons. twilight princess is bland as fuck

>Taxing puzzles

That's interesting, Twilight Princess is definitely one of the most traditional Zelda's, both structurally and content wise.

Good layouts

Well, gee, I don't know if any Zelda dungeon has accomplished all of that (besides OOT Forest Temple of course).

>twilight princess dungeons
>good

I want this meme to die because it's not true.

Nice cherry picking.

i love this game, mostly because of the visuals and sound. very interesting experience.

Yes exactly.

Structurally it's like an amateur's interpretation of how a Zelda game would be properly formatted. It suffers Metroid Fusion syndrome, too sectioned, too railroaded. Not a lot of room for the player to get creative about how they make progress.

It does have some outstanding dungeons though, especially once you get the ability to transform at will.

The Forest Temple was always be my favourite. When I got to that dungeon, that's when I realised OoT was more than just great game, it was something very special.

The Forest Temple doesn't have a clever layout, it's a linear string of locked doors. Something like is more clever since it has you rearranging how you traverse the dungeon even if it's still a linear progression.

LA's Eagle Tower
also has one of the best themes

>fighting majora's mask for the first time and this shit plays
youtube.com/watch?v=4E-WXevIOJQ

TP has some pretty damn good dungeons but also some pretty shit ones. Forest Temple, Goron Mines, Temple of Time were all trash. The rest ranged from decent to amazing.

Unfortunately dungeons are the one thing saving that game because everything else is pretty mediocre. From Arbiter's Grounds onwards the game might as well be a level select screen.

youtube.com/watch?v=2foI62hzyQ8

unique concept, clever and cohesive design ( and got it)
difficulty is a plus and so is lore/atmosphere/music

>tfw turning on Action Replay and putting on Claw Shots have infinite range and can latch onto anything
It's like Link becomes Spiderman, it's fucking great. It was fun to do in Skyward as well.

MM has easily the best dungeons though.

It's very 'Zelda-esque' in my opinion. You start as a nobody living a simple life, get the call to adventure, undertake a quest involving 3 dungeons (usually based around Earth/Fire/Water motifs), uncover the Master Sword before big plot twist and the rest of the game opens up.

Wind Waker would have also undoubtedly followed this formula if the 3rd dungeon hadn't been cut for deadlines.

Every adult dungeon in OoT accomplishes this by virtue of every sage being an NPC that the player had a chance to relate to prior to beating it, and the nature of their relationship with Link changing when they beat it.

I don't really have specifications, I just like the ones that make me use my spacial reasoning more than the ones that are more focused on enemies/one-room puzzles.

That's irrelevant to everything that was listed, you seeing Impa for a few seconds beforehand doesn't change the Shadow Temple being a straight line.

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detailed graphics and textures require effort user.

Luckily for Nintendo there are enough kids that grew up with Wind Waker to feverishly defend them.

I was focusing on the conclusion of the post. The other elements are present as well. If you want to boil it down to nothing but a lump sum of its simplest elements to satisfy a fallacy of self-fulfilling prophecy, you're just being an anti-intellectual doucher.

The Shadow Temple does not have a clever layout nor taxing puzzles.

The game out in 1998. At that time, just navigating a 3D space was huge fucking thing for gamers to wrap their heads around.

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Speaking of visuals, Skyward Sword using a impressionism-inspired filter to hide shitty LoD and draw distance is the most ingenuous thing the series has done since the N64

TP is my first Zelda game and liked a lot, but now that i've played Ocarina of Time i realize that it's little bland, the adventure was as epic as the one from OoT and it added some unnecessary garbage like wolf Link and that piss yellow filter. that being said it's still a better game than the original Nier.

navigating OoT to kids who grew up with later games is still too daunting for most of them to finish it. the levels are far more open ended than people today realize, yet intelligently designed to where you don't get stuck or completely break the game for breaking sequence (without glitches).

That's not a compelling excuse when the Water Temple actually makes players contextualize the dungeon as a whole entity since it fundamentally changes as you raise or lower the water levels. The Shadow Temple just isn't a good dungeon period.

can Skyward Sword be reliably played using a Controller on Dolphin if i map the Wiimote inputs to the controller?

If you were around at time, you'd know that The Water Temple was universally despised.

if your real point is that the Shadow Temple has a fuckload of missed potential, I don't disagree

it doesn't make the OP in this tree wrong at all though

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Twilight Princess' dungeons are very overrated. The game's redeeming quality was Midna.

The madmen still made the Water Temple though.

Most games are better than the original Nier.

The only reason the Water Temple sucked in the original release is because you have to constantly navigate through menus every other ten seconds or so to reassign the Iron Boots, that part does suck and should rightfully be despised but the actual layout of the dungeon is great.

Recently replayed the Water Temple, just yesterday. I remembered why everyone hated it: it's a shitload of backtracking to rooms you were likely to have previously visited but couldn't progress further from, because you had to change water levels and get keys first. I respect that about it, but I totally wouldn't blame someone for putting the game down there, either. It's a "separate the boys from the men" kind of level.

Besides, this only applies to the first half of the level up to fighting Dark Link (which, back then, everyone thought was hard as fuck) and getting the Longshot; from there it's smooth sailing.

>shitting on helping Yeto care for his sick wife

Look at this faggot

Best TP track coming tru
youtube.com/watch?v=Rld0kWyBT8s

The water temple is only despised because of the iron boots. It's the best dungeon in OOT by a large mile.

>detailed graphics and textures require effort user.
Not really.

Also Wind Waker looks better than Twilight Princess. And BOTW looks better than them both.

>the reason people who played ALttP hated the Water Temple was because they had to pause to change items

get the fuck out of here you '16er Nintenkiddies. lurk more.

>universally despised.
I liked it. Only retards had trouble with it.

>Only retards had trouble with it.
Seemed to be the demographic of the game.

the demographic of the game is children and children are retards
sorry you didn't grow out of it though

no

there's like one guy who claims he did it and nobody else has gotten it to work so he's probably just full of shit

>MuH OPINIOn Is FACT!!!!!
lol

Really interested to see what MB has to say about Breath of the Wild's dungeons.

Not as much as animations with personality and meaningful interactions though.