Tell me about it, is it balanced for you, or is it balanced for casuals?
A bad player should do equally well with all classes. If this doesn't hold up, then they have purposely nerfed a skill-based class.
This is mostly a PSA since Sup Forums has become increasingly casual what with a new generation being raise on overwatch and such (muh ult).
(you)
>some highly paid game designer tricked my dumb ass into playing a game that was carefully designed to be unfair
>need to be butthurt about it
Quake died because new players got tired of being stomped the moment they got into matches. Nobody wants to invest time in a game where anyone who already knows everything about the game can make it unplayable for newcomers.
Fightans are class-based in a way.
Skill based games only work if you get the game within two weeks of launch.
Past that you will be roflstomped into oblivion every time without fail.
quake died because its boring, predictable, and has no style.
That's the most casual thing I've ever heard.
>Heavy is the class for newcomers
This is literally the opposite of the truth
Heavy is the class that gains the most from having good game-sense and is otherwise pretty weak
>Heavy
>Casual
Found the guy who never played competitive TF2.
>Any class in TF2
>Easy
just insert some condescending meme fuck browsing images
>tf2
>skill
100x this
>but it gets better after 40 hours
fuck off
Do you think you don't need good game sense to play scout or spy? Please, the only difference is that heavy has a massive reticule and a huge health pool.
No shit, that's my point, but other game designers have picked up and learned from this game and it's success. Almost every game coming out right now is increasingly becoming a hug box.
Thats an issue with matchmaking and/or player count, not and issue with the game. Would you run a race against Olympic sprinters? This isn't an argument, it's accepting a broken and unfair game that you will eventually toss for being shit the more time you put into it. It's a good way to hate the thing you love.
>Would you run a race against Olympic sprinters?
>This isn't an argument
How the fuck is that not an argument? It's a perfect analogy of skill-based games.
so the solution is to ruin the game instead of work on good matchmaking?
Not really. Sprints are necessarily mirror matches, but good games don't do mirror matches, there are variety in the matchups. In fighting games there are picks, counters, and deep matchups. In CS, everybody has access to the same stuff, but depending on the economy, the gun matchup will be different, and with different teammates, and running different strats.
Quake is a mirror match on the other hand. You and your opponent have the exact same elements, access to the same guns, etc, everything in the match is a direct result of either you or your opponent taking an action. Mirror matches are unpopular because they're boring and discouraging to people who lose, which is why even competitive games rarely are mirror matches.
Quake is actually kind of a bad game, from a game design standpoint.
>Ratchet and Clank HD Collection comes out complete with online multiplayer for R&C3
>Oh boy! I can relive my favorite multiplayer mode!
>Was in the high ranks back in the PS2 days before I got my PS3
>Hop online
>Get absolutely fucking creamed by people who never fucking stopped playing all the way until the servers shut down on PS2
>They're using movement techs I never thought was possible
>New glitches I never heard of are exploited consistently, as if they were always part of the game, to erradicate base defenses and win Siege mode within seconds
>Cannot have fun in anyway because the game's meta has evolved to the point where every match and mode is played by Speedrunners
I fear what jumping in Warhawk would do to my mind
Has OP ever even played TF2? A good player will shit on a new player 100% of the time, regardless of class. Granted, the noob has options in the form of Soldier or Pyro, but these two classes present only a modicum of more challenge to the good player and have easy counters.
You just described fighting games, which have skill gaps a mile wide.
>Heavy
>impossible to improve
Sandvich tossing?
Tactical unlockable weapon selection?
Revving around corners?
Air strafing to surf explosives?
Aim?
Nice super detailed heavy guide with no comparisons.
I never said heavy doesn't take skill. I said it was easier than playing scout. Now, I need to mock your post.
-------------------------
>playing with toy trains takes no skill
Junction management?
Train selection?
Hooking up all the trains?
Making the trains go pretty fast?
Toot toot?
>TF2 Engineer
>Impossible to improve
>I play bad games
>therefore good games must coddle me
Why not just stop playing bad, broken games? The fact that it's called ratchet and clank should have given you a big ass clue that it's junk meant for children.
nigga do NOT talk shit about tooting
>some classes are harder than others
>this means the game is unbalanced and pandering to casuals
Yeah, we should apply video game logic to real life.
Instead of starting kids off with basic arithmetic, we should start them off with algebraic structures. If they're too casual to learn that, they shouldn't learn math.
you're taking it too literally. Sure the shotgun takes skill, sure the defense takes skill. But try aiming better with your turret. Games and skill are all about percentages and ability on a spectrum. The turret puts engineer on what end of it?
>But I can control the turret
Sure, but would a good player do this?
I bet OP is some lime ass scout main fag that never played nothing but scout.
Let's assume you're right for a second, OP.
What's the problem with enjoying games that take less skill more than those that take more skill?
Yes, good players use the Wrangler all the time you mouthbreather. If anything, building and metal management puts Engineer on the more skilled end of the spectrum along with Spy and Demoman.
soldier is harder than scout if you play comp
scout is just aim
I think anybody in competetive could sub engie. Like, maybe reaching some weird spots with wrangler jumps, but that's gimmicky and not too much of an improvement.
this
scout moves fast, has a double jump, and hit scan weapons
soldier only moves fast if you're good at rocket jumping, and his main weapon isn't hit scan so you have to predict movements
That's exactly what valve was thinking, and it worked very well. They are good game designers and know how to move resources around like that.
A group of sixth graders is not competing, there are no winners and losers, but let's ignore your shit example and press through, pretending that the highest scoring test wins. If a 9th grader came in and took a sixth graders test and 'won' the class, your analogy would make sense. But the simple fact is that in a well designed game, matchmaking would make it so that 9th graders could not compete against sixth graders. It's called matchmaking, and I have to restate how much I hate your shitty example. It serves no purpose, just use a fucking videogame as your example, there is literally no reason not to use a vdeogame as your example. Stop bringing up fucking school as an example when you don't need to for the rest of your god damn life.
>thinks scout is the hardest class in tfw
>over soldier of all things
found the person bad at tf2
>Soldier
>A hard class
Choose one and only one.
>using direct crutch
youre ignoring that he has a rocket launcher as his main weapon that has a massive splash radius in a game where people are forced to cluster in the same spots. e also has a huge health pool. I put him in the middle, because he is between heavy and scout.
I also wish I had stats for accuracy and k/d for different classes between players etc, but I just don't. And also, I dont want this to be a tf2 thread. Overwatch does this shit, plenty of other class games do too. Game devs are getting sneakier about it too. Sometimes they use powerups, asymmetrical play or something else. Its getting annoying and its creeping into tons of games.
>uses tf2 image and reddit spacing
>"I dont want this to be a tf2 thread"
It's already a tf2 thread you knuckle-dragging shitlicker. Kill yourself immediately.
no one cares about your pub game analysis
the graph is very stupid, so is your post and so are you
ur a baddie arnt you