What went wrong?

What went wrong?

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The older Sonic games had some bad design decisions that have been overlooked by nostalgia.

Everything worked out for once & that's what went wrong.

sonic's arms aren't blue

It was fun until hydrocity. I finally passed it today and looking forward to what the rest of the game has in store.

DENUVO

>bad design decisions
Such as what?

youtube.com/watch?v=6COu-ZkEYR8

>The hamfisted Sonic Forces tie in
>Too many nods to Sonic CD, which if they thought was a good game, they would have put in a shitty no speed Escher painting of a level and ruined the flow of the game

The two gripes I have.

Lack of level transitions for half the stages, inclusion of some old stages without changes (granted they're good stages, but I don't want to pay $20 to play GHZ act 1 in 2017), and the final bosses are pretty obviously rushed and unpolished compared to the rest of the game considering how easy and cobbled together they seem.

That's about it, really. For the inevitable sequel, I'd prefer all new Zones, even though Mania's Metallic Madness remains my favorite zone in the game.

>Auto sonic section ends with you being throw right into an enemy and losing all your rings

God tier game design we have here

>Hurr jut press down

Doesn't help when the enemy fires a projectile before hes even on screen and you're moving at mach 5

Why do I keep seeing this thread? Sonic Mania is good.

He can't mindlessly roll in ball form and get through all obstacles for free.

10 minute timer on each level.

damn git gud

Sonic was always shit.

I never hit the time limit & I don't know how people are even with exploring but yeah, that time limit is extremely pointless & always has been.

They didn't expand this part into a full act. That's my only disappointment from the returning stages.

>Moving at mach 5
There's your problem. Ball form has no speed cap unlike Sonic's normal run speed, which makes it several times more difficult to get through obstacles on reaction unless you're well versed in the stage's design. If you stay just running like normal (still a rather fast speed), you'd likely not run into 90% of the shit you're running into since there would be more than enough time to both react and change direction if needed.

>Dont be in ball form at all times
>End up running into some shit because a section was designed for you to be in ball

No Amy, no buy.
There was no Amy, so I didn't buy it.

A bunch of shitty zones from Oil Ocean onwards. Really, I don't get who the fuck would want Oil Ocean, Lava Reef and Metallic Madness back. They're literally the worst zones in the entire series and are a chore to play even with "updated" gimmicks in Mania.

The endgame is just tedious, not to mention that stupid final Zone with an overly too long stage layout.

Oil Ocean is literally the worst sonic stage I ever played.

I hate everything about it, including that boss.
>learn the layout through repeated gameovers
>lol fuck you get fucked by literal gimmick boss and start over again

No matter how many times I try it the boss fucks me over. Its not even the boss, sonic controls horribly for this kind maneuvering needed for it.

nothing, game is perfect

this

I like playing as Knuckles because exploring is fun with him but I always get time killed
Otherwise it felt short and some of the mechanics were questionable.
Understandable since it is likely a first game for a lot of the devs.

Enhanced port of & Knuckles when?

That sounds rather improbable since there's a huge discrepancy between the amount of speed you have in ball form vs not.

Sega of Europe

I like Lava Reef. I don't care for Oil Ocean at all, but I guess they put some filler levels in as they probably didn't want to blow their entire load all over the first Mania game in case of a sequel.
At least it's not fucking Metropolis Zone.

Puyo 1 rules in mean bean machine.
Other than that, not so much

>complete stage 8
>get sent to Twin Tower Trouble Act 1
>"wow that's really in poor taste"
>complete the stage, don't go to the next act, just go to stage 10
>it drops me back here afterwards
What the actual fuck?

>Doesn't help when the enemy fires a projectile before hes even on scree
They literally cannot do that. They don't even exist until you get close enough to them to make them exist. You are making shit up to justify your suction.

Getting crushed by standing 1 pixel under a moving block.

Time limit was a mistake
>act lasts for 10 minutes even when going relatively fast
>boss won't reset the counter
>you die for time up

"exploring" is a meme for people that are too unskilled to move fast. You "explore" sonic levels by taking the many distinct paths on level replays, the levels are still short and quick obstacle courses which is reinforced by a "don't fuck around" timer.

>Its not even the boss, sonic controls horribly for this kind maneuvering needed for it.

You dodge his attacks by standing still on the center platform and jumping/ducking. How retarded are you?

Hydrocity wasn't bad lol

When he takes the platforms away its all over, maneuvering through the oil to get 1 hit in is horrible and results in getting hit by something.

literally the only thing
why sega

>1 hit
L O L

I disliked a lot of the boss fights, but aside from that it was pretty fun. I still want a sonic generations 2 so I hope Sonic Forces manages to be good.

Oil Ocean was one of thebest stages. Green Hill and Chemical Plant were the most boring choices, and HydroCity was executed the worst.

you just jump over the tiny bullets by not sinking into the oil.

you do know that it's bad to cover your animal character in oil right?

Press Garden was so good. Most of the original stages were a lot more fun to play than the throwbacks, especially Flying Battery, which is just the fucking worst.

Game's good just not as good as the classics

Fucking lol what a nu-fag
The classics didn't have "bad design decisions" they had fucking variety on stage structure instead of just "run through a lot of empty hallways" all the time you fucking faggot

But that's a problem in Mania too you nigger

the bosses really (no, i'm not complaining about the oil ocean boss)

metal sonic's fight was so boring, heavy gunners was to fast, the spider boss was annoying and the last boss has such a kickin' theme despite how underwhelming it was. if the boss wasn't something charming like the bean machine one or hydrocity's boss where you're in the egg bot it usually sucked.

but other then that it was amazing

Why was there a speed cap on Mania aynways? Fucking weird

Exactly...?

Amy sucks and so do you

Are people going to start parroting this from the Zero Punctuation review now? It's not even that big of a deal.

>sonic controls horribly for this kind maneuvering needed for it.
Sonic controls brilliantly
But I get what you mean, that's the issue I had with the bosses too. They're too nimble for Sonic's playstyle it almost feels like I'm playing Gunstar Heroes or Mega Man at times. Why the fuck did they focus so much on the boss fights? Sonic's never been a boss-focused game, sure it had a lot of unique bosses but the bosses themselves were just a distraction you can cheese through most of the time which is how it should be
It's borderline annoying that you can't hit bosses as soon as you see them on the screen like you could in the classics. I fucking hate that they're invincible for a few seconds 'till the fight starts. It completely contradicts the nature of the series and the games it's trying to emulate.

Fuck off Yahtzee

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Not the case at all in Mania
The special rings are way too hard to find here so I can get why so many people got time outs

The platform to the right is still there actually.
It's a dick move since you can't notice it.

>Auto sonic section ends with you being throw right into an enemy and losing all your rings
name one specific example that doesn't give you any reaction time

This is actually pretty annoying, since it wasn't nearly as bad in the originals and can be easily patched. I hope the devs change this.

I've never timed out. Because, you know, I'm not shit at a kids game.

it was 23 years late

they STTIILLL haven't fixed the ps4 leaderboards
I mean come the fuck on already

Not enough new zones

If they keep doing more classic styled games they really need to find an alternative solution for crushing, like a smaller collision for dead by crushing otherwise sonic gets pushed back.

The ending boss fights were shitty and the endings themselves were super lackluster. That's all that went wrong.

Not releasing the game on a physical disc or cartridge. Duhhhhh you moron

This is not an issue. You're playing the game wrong or just badly if you're getting time overs.

the level transitions become rather annoying on subsequent playthroughs. having to sit through a 30 second cutscene is just boring. wish there was atleast an option to skip them

Literally 0 variety or reasons to ever replay the game.

Even Sonic Generations was smart enough to include rankings, challenges, time attacks and shit. Sonic Mania just takes your time and doesn't give you any goals to strive for, it's a new record every time.

game just isnt that fun. you go fast then run into something.

whats the point of going fast then? its basicially a low tier platformer series. nobody is missing out on anything and sonic was never good.

Replay the game as Knuckles and Tails? Replay the game with all Chaos Emeralds? Replay it to get your personal best time? Replay it while also finishing the rest of the Blue Sphere stages? There's a lot to do.
Or hell, just replay it again because it's fun and feels good to control.

literally nothing, i just went through the sonic 1, 2, 3, kunckles and generations and this is the best sonic game so far, it's well designed and not as bullshit as early games

>they would have put in a shitty no speed Escher painting of a level and ruined the flow of the game

That's exactly what Stardust Speedway is.

- the level design is bad. Too much inspired by the clusterfuck that was Sonic CD.
- too much reusing of old content.
- Denuvo. pirated it on principle because of this.

This last part is the big problem. Reusing some old levels, sure, that's cool, especially if they are extended. The problem is that they shoehorned multiple different levels into one. Like, you have Marble Garden (one of the most universally reviled stages) smack in the middle of Stardust Speedway (one of the most loved stage).

The same was a problem for the sprites and the artwork in general. They tried taking the old sprites and putting new animations to it, and sometimes it just doesn't blend well. I can see the animation "pop" every time Sonic falls into his default stand (old sprite) from the new, smoother running animation (new sprite).

And they reused all the "beta" stuff they could find on principle of being cool like that. Like, how much boners will Sonic Retro community get when they finally see a playable Dust Hill Zone? Newsflash: all that unused content was removed because they were BAD.

The levels don't have a natural flow because of that either, they just randomly jump around. All the other games had you travel from natural areas to increasingly mechanical levels until you attacked Eggmans final fortress (okay, Sonic 2 had some exceptions, but it largely was the same). In Mania, you just jump randomly into different zones.

So the end game is more like a Frankensteins monster. You have most of the level elements cut up, and stitched back together randomly. This makes the game look like a giant bric-a-brac, without proper flow. Combined it with the awful level design (very reminiscent of Sonic CD again), and now Sonic Mania looks like someone taped a bunch of crap together.

Also, the new special stages are awful.

tl:dr; it feels like a large sonic romhack, than a new sonic game.

>Not being able to clear Stardust Speedway Act 2 in 35 seconds

It reminds me more of S&K than S3. Which is a bad thing.

I always hated S&K, though I can't really put my finger on why. S3's level design usually showed off variety on the paths you take, upper angel island has platforming, lower hydrocity has water etc.

Upper mushroom hill is exactly the same as lower. Upper lava reef is exactly the same as lower. I don't feel as if I'm taking different paths every time I play.

It wasn't great and the bosses were pretty annoying at best. Like, the levels themselves weren't the worst but the bosses just made it annoying on repeat playthroughs

3D Sonic is better. It's fast and intense.

2D Sonic is just Mario for babies who can't manage only being able to take 2 hits.

That's because the level itself is extremely short to make room for the tedious Metal Sonic fight within the time limit, not because the level design isn't a clusterfuck.

>Not being able to clear Stardust Speedway Act 2 in 35 seconds

That's already way too long. Most levels in Sonic 1-2 can be done in a minute, 2 max, if you try speeding on them.

Sonic 3&K doubled that as levels became too large. For ex. you get a 50000 bonus for time in Sonic 1-2 if you complete the level under 30 secs. Sonic 3&K has 60 sec for the same bonus.

I don't even watch Zero Punctuation and I think this is an issue. Not a big one, but still a bit annoying.

have you read the manual? have you tried going to, i don't know, the right?

Try backtracking on the left...? Or is that a pit or something?

The "lock-on" text is just random text, like the COPE in spring yard zone.

Going fast is literally the entire point of the series. They should've made the time limit 3 minutes for each act.

the "I can't even lockon to anything even though the words straight up tell me to lockon." part made it go from weak bait to bad bait.

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>there are actually people in this world with the problem-solving capabilities of a mosquito

How do you get stuck in a game that five year olds can beat?

You know it's kind of weird to think that underneath those gloves he basically has regular human hands

I have just two problems with this game, firstly of course reusing so much content rather than having new levels. But I hope that would get fixed for a sequel.
The bosses were pretty dull for the most part. A few standouts like Metal Sonic and Eggman's spider just drag on for too long, and are sometimes a bit frustrating to deal with.
I still think the game is amazing, but also really flawed.

as the first act of the zone teaches you with a special ring, there are walls you can go through by having a window next to them. and there are those balls to bounce off, so if you put 1 plus 1 together...

>problem-solving capabilities of a mosquito
>implying mosquito isn't the animal that killed the most humans who are the biggest problems of the earth

What strand of autism do you have?

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Is this what qualifies as an argument for casuals? Not impressed.

It'd be nice if it forced you into a ball, made you lose your rings, and tried to shoot you out.

Running isn't capped in Mania beneath the maximum speed Sonic is allowed to reach, period.
In OG S1/2, Sonic would immediately slow down if he wasn't in ball form above certain speed (in S2, this was only capped for jumping), that doesn't happen in 3&K or Mania.

in Mania, if Sonic is going faster than he'd accelerate to while running, he enters a different running animation with swirly legs

bosses in old Sonic games pretty consistently all sucked as boss fights, except for a handful in S3&K and a small few of them in S1 (Marble, Star Light, maybe Spring Yard but not really)
Mania tried its hand to fix it. Some were better than others, but I'll probably say it didn't succeed.

Loads of waiting is bad. Multi-form bosses are cool. Destroying a boss in eight "just sit on top of its head" hits is lame (which describes a lot of S2's bosses).

dumb shit: was playing Taxman's S2 mobile last night
crushing is drastically less retarded there, so it's not like they couldn't fix it

I'll bite.

The stages flow absolutely nothing like Sonic CD, not even the literal Sonic CD stages. Taking bits of other stages is fine, and it's not like anyone actually dislikes the pulleys (except literal autists), for example, and that's probably the most blatant example in the game anyway.
Actual autism regarding the standing->moving animation change.
If there's one actual stage issue the game has, it's that most stages have relatively long stretches that are basically just the huge slopes from Chemical Plant Zone or the various bouncing back and forth sections from that stage, which was ridiculous. S3&K had loads of "now sit back and enjoy the fast" sections too, but they'd at least vary it up to keep it interesting.
New special stages are fun, you'd have to be awful at them to dislike them.

tl;dr: you're an idiot

Unless you're one of those "sonic was never good" guys then nothing.

The modern games are all about go as fast as possible without slowing down ever. Classic 2D styled sonic games can be like that as well if you are really good a timing your jumps and know where to go. But in general, classic is a balance between going fast and slowing down because there are segments where there isnt a lot of obstacles so you go at your own pace, segments that the level carries you through while you watch sonic go through countless loops and other cool shit, and lastly the "puzzle" solving sections where you HAVE to slow down and go through carefully. There's also the fact that there are multiple paths and secret goodies so you can always just explore instead of racing through. I dunno that's my opinion and how I see it.

I can't get past the fifth emerald bonus stage. That's what went wrong.

this is sad because that birbs wings are broken

Denuvo, presentation really drops in the 2nd half of the game, most bossfights suck, no linux version, level design is kind of a mixed bag