Protagonist is motivated by revenge

>protagonist is motivated by revenge
That's not a good guy motivation
Why do games do this

It's an easily understood and sometimes relatable motivation, m'lady

>protagonist should be a good guy

Depends on the context. Also in a lot of stories the protagonist has a starting motivation but eventually they get involved in a greater plot about saving the world or some shit.

>Protagonist is motivated by revenge
>Paves a warpath of blood and death to catch their enemy
>If you kill him you're just as bad as him.

>work has a clear protagonist

Protagonist doesn't always mean they're a good guy.

If he's not a good guy then he's the antagonist.

Revenge is the best motivation. Stories where something bad happens to the mainguy and he spends the whole story getting revenge are the best.

I cite John Wick aka literally the best movie of all time.

there's nothing "bad" about it either.
don't be dense.

He just wants to get revenge for those sand people kidnapping his mother, man.

That's not how it works buddy.

If it's done right, then there's nothing wrong with a revenge plot.

that movie was atrocious. watch man from nowhere if you want a decent action movie.

>protagonist is motivated by revenge
>meet his supposed murderer
>can choose to kill him at that instance, fuck him and then kill him or listen to what he says and let him leave
>if he leaves he gets captured and you can kill him there, let him go or fight him in a honourable 1-on-1 combat

You're dumb. Foreign cinema is cinema. Hollywood movies are movies. Artsy shit is films.

I will watch it though, I love asian action cinema.

>being dumb enough to let benny pull the "uhhh ill brb" trick on you

>protagonist has to be heroic and a shining beacon of justice
That's dumb.
Why do gaymers demand this?

>Protagonist lets go of his desire for revenge to help those he cares about

Americans.

>not letting him get captured so he can taste sweet irony

Protagonist just means the main character.
Whether they are good or evil is irrelevant.

>protagonist is motivated by greed

What's wrong with admiring heroic feature?

>protagonists has a fine life
>nothing bad, no grudges
>decides to conquer the world, either literally or metaphorically just so he can have more things to enjoy
>no angst, no "I deserve it", no rage
>just selfishness and wanting to improve his lifestyle and the lifestyle of those he holds dear

Why. Why don't we have such things?
I like such things a lot, anons. Quite a lot.

>antagonist has had millions of people murdered and doesn't show any signs of stopping
>"If you kill him you'll be just like him!"

Nothing wrong with that, the problem starts when someone thinks protagonists can only be good guys.

You guys just finish high school English? EVERYBODY knows this, it's low effort bait

Because it's something most players can easily empathize with, and makes victory sweeter. It's also very easy to write and come up with scenarios for.

>That's not a good guy motivation
You mean "not a cuck motivation"

...

This shit is part of why Fire Emblem Conquest's story was awful
>game about conquering another country
>instead of the story being about that and Corrin leading the frontlines and kicking Hoshidan ass proudly, it's just good boi Corrin trying to bring peace and his beef with not-Garon

Most people would consider that a villain and most people don't like playing as villians.

Yeah this. Nothing wrong with it. Good boy who gets fucked over somehow and now is pissed is easily relateable. We all want to get revenge on some asshole in our past and for whatever reason we can't. Getting to do it in games feels great.

Not every protag has to be a selfless and heroic good guy. Donkey Kong is a fun protagonist, he's just fucking pissed that someone stole his bananas. Doom Guy is a fun protagonist, he just fucking hates demons. That's not to say that I don't enjoy traditional heroes as protagonists though, Wonder Red was actually really refreshing.

That would depend on how he goes about conquering, wouldn't it? A guy conquering his field, i.e., becoming top dog in his field isn't necessarily bad.
Of course, as someone who wants Overlord games, but fully unironic and played straight, I'm not in the group concerned about it anyway.

Hanlon's razor > MUH REVENGE!

Who said the protagonist has to be a "good guy"?

This is most reductive and dumb way to think about it. Even if you want oversimplify everything like a simple mind you are, at least acknowledge the existance of anti-heroes.

Worst protagonist is generic good guy who wants to save the world because he is selfless and loves helping others. Boring as white rice idealistic hippy shit.

>protagonist is motivated by unfiltered lust

Sometimes it's really obvious there was malice involved, and even if their wasn't enough stupidity counts.

Why does the protagonist have to be a good guy?

Because story writers are shit in Video Games thats why. How ever there are good books though like THE STORY by ROBERT McGEE. problem is good designers in order to put Gameplay first they most of the time ignore the plot lines

Sasuke uchiha shippuden

>protagonist kills thousands of random grunts on his quest
>refuses to kill the main antagonists because "I'm not a murderer"

>enemy disappears
>that means it's dead

>protagonist is motivated by revenge
>he realizes the error of his ways
>abandons revenge quest to protect what he still has left

That's when you as the writer take that away from him just as he finally lets go of revenge so that he can become the revengenator part 2 reckoning of vengeance.

>not choosing to fuck him and then let him escape
>not receiving the love note that implies you gave him an excellent footjob

get it together

In the next 10 chapters, that's gonna happen.
Calling it right now.

>Protagonist is motivated by revenge
>Ends up becoming friends with the guy who he didn't realize was the one that prompted his quest for revenge

Miura said he wants a happy ending for berserk. Do you think he changed his mind?

>Protagonist isn't American

>protagonist realizes he's slaughtered armies
>"eh fuck it, what's one more?"

Guts can still kill Griffith and have a happy ending.
I'm talkin' Guts defeats Griffith, leads the people of Falconia, teaches them how to survive in a world inhabited by demons (as he's one of the few humans who knows how to), and dies in peace, knowing that he's given humanity the knowledge to struggle against evil. Final shot shows the Dragonslayer getting placed on the Hill of Swords.
I do think some shit's gonna go down on the Elf Island after Casca comes back. I don't think she'll die or anything, however.

>Even if you want oversimplify everything like a simple mind you are
It's still inherently wrong anyway

Force Unleashed 2

>protagonist forsakes his quest to build a wall and chooses to help those he wanted to keep out instead

I should specify: dies of old age and at peace, like Godo.

Would he really be a villain though if he become a benevolent ruler and improved the world for everyone even if he had to use force to get to the top?

>protagonist becomes the villain after getting revenge

In the eyes of most people yes. If some dude massacred my family I really would not give a fuck how good of a leader he was and I'd probably still try to take him out.

No, bad writing is why Conquest's story was awful. Retarded writers are why Conquest's story was awful. Masses having terrible taste and FE looking for wider appeal more and more is why Conquest's story was awful. There's nothing inherently wrong with the concept of a prince of a generally antagonistic and militaristic empire trying to achieve peace through diplomacy, there's an issue with said prince being a huge fucking faggot all the time

>There's nothing inherently wrong with the concept of a prince of a generally antagonistic and militaristic empire trying to achieve peace through diplomacy
Too bad in Birthright Nohr gets steamrolled with no remorse

>Why. Why don't we have such things?
Because it's fucking stupid and if you think otherwise prove me wrong and write the story yourself

Again there's often nothing wrong with the ideas the stories put forth it's just that the execution in recent FEs is pretty fucking horrendous though if we're being fair it's worth mentioning every FE besides 4 and maybe 9 has either juvenile and generic as shit shonen anime tier writing and characters or just downright fucking awful writing and characters

>implying I'm not already writing it
Patience. You'll see.
You all will see!
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Sounds lame.

Is there anything morally wrong with revenge? I mean the justice system is basically institutionalised revenge, right?

How can you sympathize with a character like that? Innocent people will have their lives changed drastically, for no apparent reason.
That's either a protagonist I can't root for, or an antagonist I'd dislike as a character because of how shallow they are.

>implying Echoes' story was bad
I know FE isn't exactly a series with amazing writing but Conquest's story was genuinely bad, it drags the entire game's experience down. It's a shame really because Conquest has some of the best gameplay in the entire series.
also 8 had alright writing but it really feels like a redone Gaiden at some points

pretty much this

tales of berseria was a shit reason, artorious did nothing wrong

altho i have a shit memory i don' know any other game were its a good motivation(most of the time is a side thing from a side character instead of the main character)

>not considering deterrence
>not considering prevention
>not considering reformation

Retard

>prevention
How is it prevention to punish someone after the fact?

>protagonist is motivated by saving his sister
>even if you choose evil alignment

>there are still people who don't realize protagonist=/=hero and antagonist=/=villain
A protagonist is who the story focuses on, they can be terrible people. A antagonist is who opposes the protagonist, they can be a hero.

So, let's say, Alexander the great is a lame protagonist?

Alexander the Great had motivations.
Don't bullshit me.

>tfw killed benny the moment I met him with no remorse
I had to read the wiki to now there is a robot called yes man lol

Because it worked fantastically for The Count of Monte Cristo. So long as the protagonist experiences some sort of reformation during the climax, what's the big deal?

>implying an evil person automatically has to dislike their family
Bruh...

>kill someone
>don't get put in prison
>k lol
>kill someone else
If someone has broken a law once, they are quite likely to break the law again. By imprisoning them, you prevent further crime.

Are you implying impriosonment isn't punishment.

Alexander's motivation was personal glory. The goal of keeping the persian's from making the greeks have civil wars by financing one city-state at a time was already finished when he united all greeks under him. The rest was gloryseeking from an achilles fanboy.

I'm implying an evil self centred person could not give a shit.

It's one thing to liberate Ionian Greeks from the Persians and it's another thing to just go and conquer the entire Middle East.

Why can't it be both?

So you agree there's nothing morally wrong with revenge.

I think he means that prison is partly punitive, but also partly rehabilitative.

Murrica doesn't count, since those mouthbreathers privatized their prisons, so no shit when money is involved the prisons aren't going to be very keen on "fixing" their prison population, their paychecks.

dying light did this and i hated it

Christian morality, of which Enlightenment/humanistic morality is its secularised evolution.

If you research classical Greek, Roman or Germanic heroic epics the protagonists are nearly all motivated by vengeance or slights to their honor, Achilles, Siegfried/Sigurd, etc.

Tl;dr: Christcuck savior narratives still dominate our culture, even among mostly atheist game developers.

Uh why not? Getting revenge on the bad guy that killed your family doesnt yave to be an edgy motive

The absolute state of American education, everyone.

I'm not the user you were arguing with.

Protagonist is the main character retard

The antagonist is the opposing power to the protagonist, keep your low IQ in check please ESL kun

That isn't even remotely true even nowadays. Most americans prefer anti-hero or the very least be morally complex. "Heroic justice" characters are incredibly boring and unpopular and something only the Japanese writers ever do currently.

I am the user you were arguing with, and I don't think revenge is some horrific moral evil, since it's a motivation, not a deed. Greed isn't evil, things done in the name of greed can be evil, or can be good. I can be motivated by a compassionate desire to see people safe, and institute an unaccountable police state that causes mass suffering as a result. That wasn't what I was debating in the first place, though, I was disputing that the justice system is just revenge, there's significantly more justification for the justice system than that.

>if you murder a murderer the amount of murderers in the world stays the same

But what if i murder 5 murderers