What happened to the RTS genre?

What happened to the RTS genre?

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Koreans discovered you could try to be infinitely good at them.

And then they stopped being fun for everyone else.

Games that are exponentially more FUN came out.

Literally no one born after 1990 likes RTS.

Old man please go.

The RTS genre died when everyone sticked to ''the best RTS game'' without giving the new games on the market a chance.

Modern gamers with zero attention span happened.

>all look the same
repetitive and boring after 2 games it's not fun anymore, especially since every level is almost exactly the same shit

WHAT. How do you do this?

Balance in the name of tournament play.

Real warfare has some level of asymmetry to it.

That and there's too much direct control, in say if we compare Starcraft to Total War.

There's never and breakdown of communication between command and units

There's never any breakdown or surging of morale

Vehicles can't run over infantry

Air units hover in place because of hand-waving hover-vehicles (way, way cooler in the C&C universe where aircraft have to line-up their runs, and have limited ammunition)

Units never need resupply

Unit-caps are the dumbest fucking idea ever


If I wanted Chess, I'd play Chess.
I want my RTS to be a warfare simulator.

the old major devs were either bought and dismantled or just discovered their properties were better suited to other genres. Even westwood toward the end was trying to get away from being an RTS dev.

also, with the new popularity of small team competitive games i think there's less interest in 1v1 play, which so many RTS games are focused on.

>Vehicles can't run over infantry
how many games is this actually true in? because you can run over infantry with any vehicle unit even as far back as the original C&C games.

>tfw boogie lost almost 100 lbs already
>tfw in a year, I will probably be more fat than him

THIS NEEDS TO END NOW

TIME TO HIT THE GYM

it's still around just not AAA

C&C Renegade was pretty good

fpbp

MOBA's also these
RTS is one of those genres where people stuck with the same game for decades hell even Warcraft 3 is still being played competitively back2warcraft on twitch regularly gets a couple thousand viewers when it streams match's which is impressive for a 15 year old game.

>Koreans discovered you could try to be infinitely good at them.
>And then they stopped being fun for everyone else.
Main reason I never bothered with Starcraft I'm pretty shit at RTS and I didn't feel like getting shitstomped by Korean's for hours on end until I got good.

RTS got pulled apart into the various bits of gameplay that make them up. People are able to find games that focus more on elements that scratch the itch more than the complete RTS.

City building, tower defense, mobas, role playing

This was more in my comparison of StarCraft with other RTS.
In StarCraft, siege tanks can't run over zerglings.
Dragoons can't crush space marines.
Ultralisks can't stomp Zealots.


I love, love, love C&C for the fact that you can crush infantry with vehicles.

I have some fond memories of playing custom RA maps with friends, where either side of our map was lined with the ore mines, but we're limited to like tech level 1 or 2. Very WWI feeling, wave after wave of attack/counter-attack with nothing but infantry.

That was at least, until I developed a low-tech secret plan: keep building and selling refineries to acquire an army of harvesters.

My friend made a counter-attack, and was confronted with a literal wall of harvesters. It was the funniest shit ever because he didn't catch it at first, until all the "unit lost" messages started streaming in.

Just imagine the sound of a hundred harvesters crushing dozens of bodies a second.

They're long and complicated games, often requiring 10-15 minutes before any action (for most players, we're not talking about experts here). Early on you focus on research, resource management, and scouting. For most people that just isn't terribly fun, especially when the demographics have shifted to people who want instant gratification. I'm not shitting on them, you can spend your leisure time however you like. I get not wanting to play a game where you spend a lot of time getting set up just to be bulldozed a few minutes later by someone much better than you.

Other alternatives came up that offered fast paced fun right off the bat while this genre devoted itself to requiring more and more APM and micro skills that most people don't want to develop. RTS parted ways with the vast majority of people long ago to cater to the more devoted audience and that's probably a good thing.

>demographics have shifted to instant gratification.
Maybe you should play the origional video games to put things in perspective.

Too steep a learning curve and multiplayer is too intimidating.

Tooth and Tail is a step in the right(casual) direction. Easy to pick up and play but there is some depth for people that want to dig in.

>requiring 10-15 minutes before any action
this is just poor design eg. sc2, there's no reason you can't be skirmishing in the first few minutes

Personally could never get into em, guess that's a common thing.
I'm too dumb to handle more than one unit in real time.

Killed by tourneyfags. Normies won't go near them now so there is no money in it.

I have. What's your point?

You could but like I said in the post, most people can't pull off that much multitasking. So it was very common for people to play long games where the first 15 minutes was no action. It's the same reason the Fastest Possible Maps were so popular, people wanted to get to it.

Whoever decided that rushing was fun killed them so I guess it was blizzard.

That you sound very pretentious.

there's nothing wrong with rushing long as teching is also viable, if you're forced to rush or there's little cost to rushing it's bad

>if you're forced to rush
which is every blizz rts since sc1

company of heroes came out, and no one built on it

How? I'm just saying what happened and going out of my way to not blame casuals for not wanting to put the time in because there's nothing wrong it.

Rushing only works against players that over-invest in structure or tech too early.

If you balance yourself at the start you can defend against rushes, and then come back to punish them for not investing in their structures/tech/econ.

The pendulum goes both ways.

>There's never any breakdown or surging of morale


>he doesn't play company of heroes
>he doesn't play close combat (ok i know that's RTT but still)

How many tournaments or e-sports events does CoH get

>Main reason I never bothered with Starcraft I'm pretty shit at RTS and I didn't feel like getting shitstomped by Korean's for hours on end until I got good.
The thing is it applies to every RTS now.
No potential competition has come up with a concept to bypass the relevance of the 'y'know I bet you I could get that unit out at 9:58 instead of 10:00 if I had one worker doing this for 5 seconds at 0:23' mentality. So, no one plays their games.

I casually play Warcraft 3 4v4. I get shat on a lot but the 3 teammates can often times take the slack for me.
That being said, everyone in that game is a fucking raging idiot.

It's kinda stuck with an awkward skill gap. It's deep and interesting as a genre but niche the amount of people willing to make that jump from picking up the game to being competent to being good. As such playing the game against people results in either a complete stomp or being completely stomped. Rarely a close match.

>ITT: lazy people who put rts in a skill pedestal because they are lazy

The aim is to be decent not a pro, if you want to be a decent rts player it's fairly easy. If you want to be a pro then that's another talk.

>Balance in the name of tournament play.

yeah lets play a game with factions builtin with an early advantage

>Real warfare has some level of asymmetry to it.

company of heroes did this fairly well, the nazi factions being designed to dominate late game but you'd be surprised because every other game you have the allied factions pushing to own more than half the map and forgetting about destroying the enemy base just in time for them to roll out high level units.

>That and there's too much direct control, in say if we compare Starcraft to Total War.

lets hear your idea of conveying micro and macro management elements in a compelling way, maybe without spreadsheets genius

>There's never and breakdown of communication between command and units

yeah that's when youre doing macro management things, your micro management suffers and lose individual situations, sometimes even in hope of distracting or drawing the enemy

>There's never any breakdown or surging of morale

this can be added with a swipe of a button for any modder out there, but at some points you agree with the developers decisions about what falls into the realm of fun

>Vehicles can't run over infantry

i mean who would stand infront of an oncoming tank waiting for command to tell them to get out of the way?

>Air units hover in place because of hand-waving hover-vehicles (way, way cooler in the C&C universe where aircraft have to line-up their runs, and have limited ammunition)

you seem to be complaining about realism. there needs to be a base of gameplay elements in all games that need to appear cleverly exploited to make the experience fun all you seem to want is autism strategy see Ultimate Epic Battle Simulator on Steam

>Units never need resupply

again this takes away a lot of the action and pacing, but has been utilized in some specific units in many games

>Unit-caps are the dumbest fucking idea ever

yes balance is completely idiotic and never served its purpose

Chess is warfare you young cuck.

>I want my RTS to be a warfare simulator.
>complains about tanks not being able to run over infantry
When do you think was the last time some infantryman got run over by a hostile AFV that wasn't an mudslime execution

Warcraft 4 is going to reintroduce the RTS genre by changing the way how you control units

get hyped to hear it at this blizzcon

The moba and SC2/Esports killed it. The moba part is easier to understand, but for SC2. Its like how WoW killed off MMOs for a bit. Because you either went the WoW route and were just a clone. Or you did your own thing and people got mad you weren't copying WoW.

As long as Jeff Cucklan isn't part of the fucking production. Overwatch comp is so fucking trash.

Planetary Annihilation was too good for this world.

RTS games are in a comfy place right now where the relevant games such as sc2, coh, aoe2 and such are still played by a dedicated mature community including tourneys. I mean you can yell "sc2 is dead" all you want but it still got two expans and gets 30k players on peak hours, aoe2 is being played by 12k as I speak right now.

The genre is not in a bad spot at all just because the casual crowd left and kids stopped growing up on it. And hey, they even made tooth&tail for you "reeeee APM!" autismos.

They stopped making games where you advance in ages and instead opt for shitty ashes of singularity type, SPAWN MILLIONS OF DIFFERENT UNITS IN A ROCK PAPER SCISSORS MATCH THAT YOU COULDNT FIT INTO 30 PAGES bullshit. Give me like fucking 10 units, with faction specific buffs, and maybe 2-3 faction specific units, unless your factions are actually different and not just, THE BLUE ROBOTS VS THE RED ROBOTS VS THE PURPLE ROBOTS

All it would take is a Developer to make a new RTS with a modern engine with a vibrant world/story and custom map making.

You'd have a masterpiece but no one has done it yet.

Pretty sure more people are playing brood war than SC2

it's shit, SupCom > TA > power gap > PA

Shame no one tried to make the RTS genre a team game. I guess World In Conflict did but I don't know of anyone else.
Team vs team was always more interesting to watch too

You are shit.

that's beyond my point of sc2 being alive and going steady

There was team in Warcraft

someone said, let's do all that and make an RTS game but get rid of everything and MOBAs were born.

>tfw 160 pounds
I'm amazed by the fact that someone could lose enough weight to make another me.

I got crappy at them
youtube.com/watch?v=FBq9iEvMeqc
Seriously watching people play make me realize how shit I was

I like Tooth and Tail though, it's a decent RTS

I think it's bad if you go too far into that direction though.
I think free for all should always be an option in RTS games.

Also what he said. If anything its kinda having a come back. AoE 4, Iron Harvest, Sudden Strike 4,Halo Wars 2 coming to steam, Tooth & Tail, Steel Division. Say what you will about the quality of the games themselves more is coming out now then 5 years ago. Its not the biggest hottest shit. But it ain't dead. Fighting games died off then came back. I think we are gonna see the same with RTS. It will always be a niche genre by its nature thou.

That said if the genre does truly make some sort of comeback. How long till EA drags C&C from the mass grave it was buried in to shit out a game to compete with AoE 4?

Why can't they release a good game like Stronghold/Crusader?
Crusader 2 sucks ass with it's removed features.

Firefly were hacks who got lucky twice

AOE4 NIGGER!!!!!!!!!!!