Is Moogy-denka right about Persona 5?

Is Moogy-denka right about Persona 5?

twitlonger.com/show/n_1spsblb

>I am very, very tired of everything the P5 narrative has to offer me. I'm tired of protagonists being rewarded, even celebrated for enforcing their will on the world through violent means, I'm tired of half-assed social links that exist in a state of subservience to the overarching plot, and I'm tired of fucking fighting god at the end. I sunk 110 hours into this game, and I can't say it was worth it. Look elsewhere if you want something that actually enriches your soul or brings joy into your life, because all I felt after spending all that time on P5 was a sense of overbearing fatigue. Also, to criticize the actual gameplay a bit... I really think the dungeons could have pushed the player further. I appreciate that they put a lot of effort into the aesthetics and "flow," but there's never really a brain-bending puzzle that stops you in your tracks or a devious trap that sets you back in any meaningful way. This single screen is more *challenging* than anything in Persona 5's dungeons, and it's just one part of the third to last dungeon: youtube.com/watch?v=Iet-dBT2G7Q So yeah I'd like to see them make more, uh, fiendish dungeons in P6, I suppose.

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I'm amazed by how much he wrote but still said jack shit.

>I'm tired of protagonists being rewarded, even celebrated for enforcing their will on the world through violent means,

I don't remember them murdering or injuring anyone

>a literal who

Who gives a shit.

Kastel-sama and Moogy-denka are always right.

Who?

>I'm tired of half-assed social links that exist in a state of subservience to the overarching plot.
I dunno what they're like in the other games since P5's my first, and I'm not that far in most of the ones I have so far but how wouldn't they be tied to the main story if there's like 20 of them and the game's 100+ hours long?

Who and who?

I am actually a bit disappointed in the P5 dungeons. They are good as a first attempt but the way people were talking about them I was expecting a lot more.

Will Kastel-sama be okay?

>Some guy on the internet didn't like a game

Well shit, stop the presses. I guess Persona 5 sucks now.

>ALL THIS SHIT TASTE
I would almost flip his scale completely on its head
>Tales of shit in 7/10
>Nier in 9/10
>Great games in 2/10 and 3/10
Fucking kill yourself

...

i hope so...

I think he is. The social link grinding was boring and not worth the time wasted on it. The final boss fight infuriated me, and is a reminder of why people with pseudo religions shouldn't make games which address other religions.

They guessed at people that might be corrupt, then were lucky enough that those people turned out to be completely nonredeemable scumbags.

>and is a reminder of why people with pseudo religions shouldn't make games which address other religions.
Did you even understand who the final boss was?

ADULTS ARE EVIL

ANIME TEENAGERS RULE

Can you truly say you understood and enjoyed Nier: Automata if you didn't comprehend it on so many intellectual layers as Kastel-sama?

>Yokoo Tarou’s Eternal Recurrence: Transhumanism in NieR: Automata
tanoshimi.xyz/2017/03/21/violet-evergarden-spoilers/

I bet his favorite character was Akechi

The only thing I agree with is the final boss was whack and overdone, and I would have forgiven it if it had better presentation. One user suggested shooting it in the chest and stealing it's heart in a scene you control, that sounded awesome

So who is this? Somekind of an troll?

>They guessed

The first bad guy was a cunt who tried to throw out the MC after leaking his backstory to the school, trying to fuck students and causing one to attempt suicide

The second they investigated the situation and found out that the artist had been stealing peoples work and making saiury copies after finding copys

the third was someone who blackmailed them, who in his own palce treated people like ATM's and was being investigated by the police

The fourth requested it

the fith had witnesses and his own daughter say he was corrupt after forcing her to get engaged to some guy for his own gain.

EXCEPT:
The mere presence of a palace meant that their desires were distorted, not unlike how addiction distorts the mind.
AND
They were able to interact directly with the individuals' ids. In other words, there was guesswork in choosing whose palace to infiltrate but they always were able to meet that person's shadow, so there was no guesswork in deciding whether or not to change their heart

okay, how is that violent though?

>causing one to attempt suicide

It's her own free will if she want to die
You can't put the blame on the teacher

(You)

The violence is in giving the anime equivalent of a lobotomy, but they actually got to know their enemies in the Palaces before deciding to steal the treasure.

If the targets weren't assholes and legitimate criminals and abusers, it would have shown in their Palaces and shadows

>7/10:
>Ys8 (Vita version) - Probably one of the best games ever made.
This guy must really hate video games if a 7/10 is one of the best games ever made.

This guy put it like a faggot but he's right on a lot of counts and my overall feelings on Persona 5 are negative.

Magical brainwashing isn't a satisfying come-uppance and ruins nearly every social links by having overly simplistic villains you beat into submission. Nobody learns a damn thing in these confidant stories.

The gameplay is also a real letdown. Fixed dungeons are a good change, but only if they're good, and these weren't. The game had a stupid amount of mandatory hand-holding for simplistic puzzles.

Agree totally.

Stop playing Weebsona and play a real SMT game once in a while you drooling mongoloids

>I sunk 110 hours into this game, and came to the conclusion that it is very bad

>Persona
>niche series
>years of anticipation
>constantly attacked by the media, slinging its name through the mud
>countless numbers of longform essays and criticisms tearing the game apart, game is overall disliked by a majority of players
>1.8 million SHIPPED

>Nier Automata
>mega niche game
>only a year and a half of anticipation
>rave reviews and love by the gaming media
>countless longform essays and videos praising the game to high heavens and signalling it as a masterpiece of the medium
>universally beloved by all that play it, even people that weren't incredibly fond of it still say it's a good game
>2 million SOLD
Is P5 the biggest disaster in recent memory? How badly do you think the CEO of Sega is wishing he never paid for a defunct RPG studio like Atlus?

maybe if they would make one with up-to-date graphics and on PC

It's not a lobotomy or brainwash, they're forcing them to give up their evil side and become honest.
It's like a truth serum.

The game has some problems, but aside the dungeons that guy is retard, not every game needs to be a life changing art experience and not every game needs to challenge your preconceptions about the world, by that I mean no game should be required to be more than a piece of entertainment media, if a game is a life changing "experience" for you that's lfine, but so called journalists and critics nowadays feel that video games SHOULD be artistic boundary-breaking existential deconstructions of life or some shit.

He might be right about some things but in the end he's an idiot brainwashed by their own idiotic ideas of self-flagelating grandious condescension.

>not every game needs to be a life changing art experience and not every game needs to challenge your preconceptions about the world
Yet Nier manages to do all that and still be a great video game. P5 evidently fails at both.

>Expecting an interesting narrative from a dating sim
That's what the alignments in SMT are for

>some weeb retards actually believe P5 has good writing

Truly tells you a lot about those lowlives white trash

>tfw I haven't enjoyed a Ys game, or literally anything falcom in nearly 10 years
Sell me on 8 anons

>Yet Nier manages to do all that
No it doesn't.

And Nier has quite a few issues in teh gameplay as well.
It's a good game, but nowhere near perfect.

The issue I had with the villains was that although they seemed to have some redeeming characteristics shown as shadows, you never see (with the exception of Kamoshida) how having their heart changed altered their way of thinking. They just confess but you never see the weight of their crimes weigh on their refreshed outlook on morality and the world.

One of the core issues of P5 is that every villain subscribes to a might makes right philosophy in some form as a way of justifying to themselves why its okay to do what they do. Only with Kamoshida do we get to see how his personality starts to alter after he's defeated.

If we saw more of that, the process of changing hearts would seem more realistic than just swapping someones brain out but keeping the old memories

I'd agree if we saw more of their shadow's having to come to terms with the weight of their crimes and losing the Might makes Right excuse they had been using to keep their ego propped up

We only really see it with Kamoshida's Shadow/Breakdown and to a slight degree, Shido's

The alignments are cartoonishly black and white, you cannot be serious. There's a reason why almost everybody goes for Neutral except for when another route has more content like TDE in Nocturne.

No. I would've been fine without fighting the pseudo-God in the end, but it was handled alright so it wasn't really an issue.
I think the inconsistent intelligence of the Phantom Thieves bothered me more. Sometimes they're too oblivious to realize that they probably shouldn't be talking about their secret identities in public or when and where to enter the metaverse. Then other times they're pulling off these elaborate Death Note tier plans.

There are countless videos and essays explaining how Nier uplifts the medium and could only ever work as a video game. There is nothing but criticism of P5. You can't compare the two at all.

It is more like a loboty or brainwashing though because you're changing their entire personality. They don't blurt out the truth, they try to repent and make amends. They're totally different people.

I'll agree that the victories after Kamoshida were underwhelming, but that doesn't mean they fucked with people's brains in a way that stripped them of their will.

That whole excerpt in the OP (fuck if I'm reading the entire thing) screams "I had a bias going in to this."

>I think the intelligence of Ryuji bothered me more
fixed

>then were lucky enough that those people turned out to be completely nonredeemable scumbags.

It's outright stated that people don't just "have" palaces. People with palaces have incredibly warped perceptions of themselves and everything around them. Otherwise they just hang out in Mementos.

It's not like he's the only one. Anyway, it's more that it just seems they made them extra sloppy at times in order to advance the plot.

There are essays about how ocarina of time is pretty much the very elixir of life and is has a true philosophical meaning.

You see what I mean?
All these people who think games much be life-defining-experience will find meaning in anything.

Nier is a good game, but don't overblown it's qualities. The story is good at best, the gameplay is heh, the side missions are boring, the open world may as well not exist. Its also pulling quite a few strings that works once.

So stop with all that crap.
I can make you 100 pages about how tetris is the meaning of life, that wouldn't make it true in the least still.

t. Japanese man

See You clearly didn't.

Right, in universe, they basically guarantee that you're not doing anything wrong.

But, both in-universe and in the general discussion about the game, the question of whether you should be allowed to change someone's personality by 'force' and still be considered morally upright is a different discussion.

I personally agree that the PT didn't do much more wrong than their own targets and Goro and their outcomes were significantly more positive

>Nier Automata literally starts with a badly translated/written monologue about killing god
I seriously don't know how anyone could take this game seriously.
Nier > Automata
Nier OST > Automata OST

pls respond it looks painfully average and the demo didn't change my opinion and I want to understand why he likes it so much

Fuck off kastel, get a real job.

Not just that, but th Phantom Thieves actually interact with every Target's Shadow, their true selves.

So not only do they get to see how their targets view the world but also have the Targets discuss their motives and actions in a space where they're basically guaranteed to tell the truth (Harus dad that one time notwithstanding)

>dungeons

I agree desu

>no more rng dungeons
>linear as fuck instead
>everyone tells you what to do

shut the fuck up makoto I'm not a brainlet

Actually yes. P5's story is trash. Almost every scene is presented with the same static camera angle, the dialogue is uninteresting and not tonally consistent, every coop story ends up feeling like the same shit since they're almost all solved in the same way, the villains are ridiculously cartoonish and generic, they overexplain the scheme the protagonist used to evade Akechi's attempt to murder him despite it being retarded, and Ryuuji is is an incredibly bad character whose only purpose in the narrative is to spark up conflict when the writers can't think of any better way.

For a game that seemingly featured outlaw protagonists from the buzz surrounding it, the morality was so fucking ridiculously black and white with everything skewed in the Phantom Theives' favor. Given how everything operates within the game's diegesis they literally do nothing wrong. The section where they all are worried about losing their way around Okumura's palace comes off as such bullshit. There was literally nothing wrong with targeting Okumura based on what they knew at the time (Haru's forced marriage, systematic workplace abuse, Sae's laptop pointing towards the fact he had people killed by mental shutdowns).
"Is it wrong to make people who we have solid proof of being criminals that would never be admissible in a court of law confess via supernatural means that requires no manipulation of the truth from us?" No, of fucking course it isn't.

>"In short, the two games can't be compared whatsoever. Nier Automata is more in line with a Kubrick film, 2001 being the closest comparison, while Persona 5's compatriots are the superhero movies that have dominated the box office in the past decade. A superhero movie is good for entertainment's sake, but a Kubrick film elevates the medium and the interpretations of it are still discussed decades later."
Jesus Christ, Moogy is going in hard lately.

even if it does, is not a requirement that evey game needs to fullfil, that's the point.

>they question what they're doing in earlier parts of the game
>something conveniently happens that makes them think they're in the right

Exactly, any moral ambiguity is completely thrown out the window.
>Madarame's other pupil coming up to them
>Haru falls in their lap

You are fucking pathetic.

Whoops hit enter too early.
Moral ambiguity is completely thrown out the window, showing them to be in the right 100% of the time.
At least there's a mild veneer of ambiguity and plot reasons to do things, P3/4's teams had no such dynamic (no, Adachi was not right about fucking anything, yes he was my favorite part of P4 too). The real question: Is having paper thin grey morality worse than obvious, never expanded upon black-and-white morality?

nuh uh you don't get it yabadabadoo set everything up so that joker would fail it's all according to his palns just like how joker conveniently forgot all the scenes about their master plan and why akechi is retarded it's intentional

>le eceleb
Kys

literally who

Says a brainlet.

>(no, Adachi was not right about fucking anything, yes he was my favorite part of P4 too).
I love this recent brand of damage control. Admit that he was right. Atlus hilariously enough dug its own grave when it made a villain that calmly explained to the player why Persona is such bullshit, and it's ended up making their sequel get torn apart.

Explain what evil serial killer man was right about

Literally for what is explicitly stated to be the better. It's not as if they are going around changing them to be loyal helpers of the Phantom Thieves. These are people who have such a warped degree of personality that they themselves are actively destroying the lives and futures of others by impressing their will upon other people. They wouldn't have Palaces if this wasn't the case. For minor cases of this, we have Mementos, which are the warped wills of randos that aren't so destructive that they can fully form a unique Palace.

Power of friendship is bullshit, everything comes down to luck, women. It's a meta-narrative on why Persona feels so slimy and insincere the more you think about it, while other series like Nier and Yakuza feel honest and heartfelt.

wasn't this Akechi's initial argument against them? did they ever expand on that? I only remember them being pissed off because Akechi is famous

I agree with that and am tired of power of friendship bullshit and have been whining itt about paper thin grey morality, but that doesn't mean killing people is okay and doesn't suddenly make the actions of the Phantom Thieves wrong or anything. Nothing wrong with getting lucky and using it to make the world better.

p5 is the worst game ever

t. P3fag

>"Adachi was not right about fucking anything"
>let me tell you what he's right about
>"I agree with that"
What did you mean by this?

ever is an overstatement. this year? maybe but that's not to say it isn't good.

Akechi made them out to be vigilantes and that their "Justice" was corrupt, considering it permitted them to "Change people" without their consent and beyond the ability of the law to enforce. However, the actual PT were exclusively targeting people with Egos/Ids warped beyond recognition, and as such, it's clear to see the team's goals. Akechi wanted to do something similar, however he himself was somewhat corrupted with his hatred of Shido and intended to literally just execute him, rather than restructure his mind. I'm sure if it wasn't for that, Akechi would have probably either already done exactly what the PT do, or he would have (or already has) used his Palace-hopping knowledge to do brain-scanning investigations.

The only people that get triggered about killing god are alt-right christfags

>Persona 5 was mediocre and dissappointing

News at 11.

>Claims that the Investigation team is just a bunch of outcasts licking each others wounds; their relationships are 90% based on a quid pro quo
>Claims that the team is just hunting him down and solving mysteries out of boredom, like he did with the murders themselves, and so the Investigation Team has no moral or character high ground to judge him by when the character trait that led him to do what he did is the same thing leading them to do what they do

I guess I mean I'm a fucking idiot. Allow me to correct myself.
>At least there's a mild veneer of ambiguity and plot reasons to do things, P3/4's teams had no such dynamic (no, Adachi being right and poking holes in JRPG formulas doesn't mean that P4's team did anything wrong in saving people). The real question: Is having paper thin grey morality worse than obvious, never expanded upon black-and-white morality?

Because Adachi being right contradicts your last point. The morality in P4 is extremely gray because Adachi is correct and the protagonists are in the wrong. Brainlets can't handle this.

>Persona 5 review
>It's a fun game, but the writing is bad!
>4/10
>Tales of Berseria review
>The writing is good! And P5 is shit!
>No mention of gameplay
>7/10
He's right about the writing of both games, but he seems to have his priorities mixed up.

"God" as an enemy is becoming so banal and boring at this point that they might as well just put gods eveerywhere and have you slaughter them via mediocre QTE's like in God of War. Most especially because it lowers God to some kind of regular mortal "Thing" rather than an ascended presence. Most especially when they always make it out to be the most boring self-righteous asshole imaginable before the team of "Rebels" wind up slaying it. Can we ever get deicide done in a game where God isn't just "Yet another villain, but the biggest one"? Why not an actually morally ambiguous reason to kill it? Why not a benevolent God that our killing will disrupt the world, but bring about some alternative end that will question our actual moral compass? Why not a God killed in the service/faith of another God?

>we were both bored and you did something good from it guess that makes you just as bad as me huh

>Literally all of that 2/10
I will never take anything this cuck has to say seriously under any metric, and anybody who attempts to convince me that his tastes are anything but trash will be ignored.

there is nothing good about what the IT did

brainlet here, what do you mean by this

Calm down, Bloodbrony.

I do agree with the dungeons part. I wish games would take more notes from Wild ARMs, that series has awesome dungeons.

>people didn't die as a result of IT's actions
>saved kanji's smile
Respectfully disagree

I'm more offended that he would call Hollow Knight and Momodora 2/10 games, but him calling Bloodborne a 2/10 just shows that he's either a Sup Forums shitposter out for some ad revenue or he's got a legitimate vendetta.

It would help their point if almost all Japanese media in the past few years didn't seem legally obligated to include representatives for the pedophile demographic.

>no option to join Shido and help him make Japan great again

It's shit