Can anyone come up with a proper argument as to why the legion is bad? no, "DUHHH THEY'RE EDGY" is not an argument

can anyone come up with a proper argument as to why the legion is bad? no, "DUHHH THEY'RE EDGY" is not an argument.

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Bad as in evil, or bad is an low quality?

They're government is extremely fucking unstable as evidenced by Caesar's mortality and his willingness to let the Courier get so close to him in such a short time. It's not worth that just because traders are safe

There has never been a truer image.

there is no evidence that caesar's death would negatively affect the legion in the long run.

They're slaver savages that use women as breeding stock. NCR is civilizing the land and bringing back the american way of life.

I don't see the value in regressing back from the NCR

not an argument

no I think that was one

You know you're giving two very good arguments as to why you should align with the legion, do you?

>there is no evidence that caesar's death would negatively affect the legion in the long run.

he started it and it's his ideals that keep it from going too far and inciting united uprising.

> prance around in skirts
>hate medicine and education
>"we wuz Romuns an sheeit"

las vegas makes a shit capital, they should have gone south not west allowing the colorado river to form a natural border between them and the NCR

Slavery is economically inferior to the employment system the NCR/Vegas has.

>American way of life leads to the nuclear holocaust of the entire world (as far as we know)
>Hey lets reform America as it was in the good ol days!

Also not to mention the NCR is incredibly corrupt and would likely just become worse the larger it got. The Legion is retarded as well but for different reasons.

the "American way of life" was just described as the rule of law and democracy which is seen all over the developed world but yet we don't have a nuclear holocaust just yet so please point out the problem in reforming it

The chinese fired the first shot it's their fault

>Corruption
>Caused nuclear holocaust

Legion is nothing but glorified tribalism. Literally, it's comprised of illiterates who were subjugated under a new master.

>lol dude tribalism is fine when people can read tho xDD

Nigger Cuck Retards in a nutshell

They're an unstable non-government based entirely on the enslavement of everyone from the places they conquer and are only held together (barely) by a dying cancer patient?

The fact that literally the only people who benefit in any way from Caesar's rule are traders (and further only male traders) from places that the Legion hasn't conquered and enslaved yet?

The fact that the alternative is a fully-functioning, advanced, democratic nation-state with a stable government, actual functioning manufacturing and science industries, advanced cities (further West in New Cali proper), a prosperous economy, sophisticated transportation networks, electricity, trains, etc., in which slavery is illegal and most citizens can live happy, productive, free lives? Literally the only problem that I can think of (that isn't pretending taxes and bureaucracy are on the level of mass enslavement) are that they've only recently, and only barely, settled the Mojave, and have to deal with Hegel McManchild the Littlest Cancer Patient and his army of brainwashed retards.

I can't think of any pro-legion arguments that aren't either blatant edgelordery or "well they have a cool roman aesthetic and the romans are pretty badass amirite? yeah RIGHT NOW they're literally nothing at all even vaguely like the romans at any point in history but who knows maybe one day in the distant future their distant descendents might be kind of roman i mean yeah they'd have to change literally every single thing about their society but i mean lol idunno it could happen."

>glorified tribalism
It literally is tribalism. It's a bunch of tribe retards run by Caesar. They're so retarded they kill their own allies for no reason either.

>democratic

>stifles advancement as a civilization by promoting backwards ideas of women in servitude and extermination of other people for being different, thus lowering the genetic potential of the species for the inevitable rebuild of civilization
>Has no idea how PR can win wars, so looks bad to EVERYONE that isn't them
>relies on a cult of personality that will die with the leader
>this will lead to chaotic power grabbing and political intrigue
>a bunch of luddite motherfuckers who can't into technology because muh idealism

Yeah, they're a shit tier group, and not being they're racists, but because they're short sighted tribalist savages.

Romans are fucking faggots and the legion are no different.

That line pretty much sums up the retardation of Caesar.

>dude let's just send this courier who thwarted me at every turn and killed every legion soldier they saw down into a bunker to do whatever without even checking up on them

At least House has the excuse of being an autist who hasn't even physically interacted with another person in 200 years.

>Comparing the US in Fallout to the US in real life
Also the main reason the war started was that everyone was running out of the resources to support such large populations.
The choices you get in NV all kinda sucked
>NCR is corrupt and ineffective and wants to reinstate a system that has already failed
>Legion is strong but backwards as fuck and unstable if caeser dies
>Mr House literally only sees the world as his playground and doesn't care about humanity as a whole (the snowglobes were a reference to this)
>Independent changes very little so its not inherently bad but not good either

>there's no evidence that this band of psychotic raiders only held together by one guy would fall apart if the one guy died despite that literally always being what has happened in every single vaguely comparable situation
>blatant edgelord non-argument
>generic "democracy is bad" non-answer

Wow what great arguments I guess I'm sold, Ave Caesar!

your argument is basically "IT'S 2281 COME ON!"
hence, not an argument

...

Nothing in his post is what you just described as "it's 2281 come on". Is this what this thread is going to boil down to? People writing out extensive posts and you, OP, replying to every single one of them with
>not an argument

>your argument is basically that xenophobic tribalism excludes a lot of good talent and knowledge from the mainstream of our society thus making it more unlikely that scientific and quality of life advancements will arrive thereby making our society stronger through happiness, knowledge and security bought by these advancements and a higher quality of life

Your argument is so much more fleshed out, user, how could I have been so mistaken?

No one can, because at his core the Legion is just another form of government (Monarchy), much like the NCR, Mr House or free vegas are.

There's no "good" or "bad" in this, there's only "pros" and "contras".

Technophobes. So no vidya.

good

Lmao. FNV fags are still salty people don't worship they're shitty game.
The legion is badly written because a society like that would absolutely never work, because they solely exist so the devs can criticize the NCR (who they hate), and because theyre literally Mary sues:
NCR has guns, Legion has sticks, yet the Legion is better at war: Sue
NCR has a robust, industrial economy with various corporations, whilst the legion has a pillage economy, yet they're economy is supposed to be better: Sue
NCR is a democracy, whilst CL is an autocracy, and yet NCR is more corrupt? Sue

At very best, the Legion approaches a very shitty interpretation of the Mongols under Genghis Khan. Except Genghis Khan was victorious for the fact that he DID adopt technological advancement and was famous for respecting ethnic differences.
More likely tho, theyre the result of Obsidians shitty nihilistic PoV, that they crammed into Kotor 2 with Kreia as well. How this can be considered good writing by anyone is beyond me.

[Intelligence[: So, you fight the good fight with your shitpost on Sup Forums Sup Forums?

"wahhh give us ACTUAL arguments us to why our game is shit"
>gives actual argument
"wah this is just a shitpost because FNV is perfect!!"

>Legion
>Monarchy
Do you even dictatorship, you stupid motherfucker?

[Perception] not an argument

see
nice to know FNVfags still as dumb as ever

Honestly, I never understood why Obsidian has such massive beef against NCR and trying their best to turn literally one of few decent places in entire Falloutverse into a clusterfuck for no real reason at all.

cuck

because obsidian writers are actual philosophers who understand democracy is rubbish

Because Obsidian literally espouses Nihilism as a philosophy really fucking hard. See Kreia in Kotor 2. They'll literally write themselves into a corner just to they can rub the players face in their shitty "EVERYTHING IS GRAY AND ITS SUCKS NOTHING MATTERS"
I honestly think you need to be fucking 14 to think obsidians writing is deep or profound in any way

Todd Howard did nothing wrong, Heil Fallout 4 GOTY

>gets btfo
>"y-youre a cuck tho "
good one kiddo, remember to tell reddit about your adventures here

It's not sustainable because it creates a cult of personality around the head of state. Once the head of state dies, there's nothing to hold it together.

That's really all there is to it. All the other issues related to the Legion like slavery or patriarchy or whatever are essentially irrelevant in a post-apocalyptic setting where humanity's survival is still at stake.

>kreia
>nihilistic

lol....................... wrong

It's not like the NCR is much better though, i can't imagine that when Tandi died the government was very stable.

Even if it was whatever some other shitty philosophy, you can't deny its written like shit
>Choose to help beggar
You fucked up, KREIA IS ALWAYS RIGHT
>Choose to not help beggar
You fucked up, KREIA IS ALWAYS RIGHT
I thought Obsidian was liked for giving players choices?

>there are neanderthals in this thread that ACTUALLY think slavery isn't evil

le stirner face

Reminder that preferring FNV to Bethesda Fallout is literally as reddit as it comes:

reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/418m3o/the_biggest_difference_between_new_vegas_and/

The Legion also has guns, play the game.

The NCR's economy is a fucking bust dude, there's no industrial capacity that we can actually see in game, other than bombed out factories, the sharecropper farms and the repairs station they make to old world power armour is the closest they get.
>NCR is a democracy, whilst CL is an autocracy, and yet NCR is more corrupt?
NCR is a corrupt as fuck organization, Shady Sands was president for like 40 fucking years, and i seriously doubt that's entirely out of total competance, you're seriously telling me there wasn't a single event that the public would consider big enough to warrant a new president? If the NCR is a corruptionless organization despite having a single person run it for 40 years that's sue as fuck and you know it.

Yet another reason why neanderthals are superior to thuls

Unfinished and poorly handled. They're certainly interesting, and what Caesar says is somewhat reasonable, but he's the only source of that in the entire game. If there was any actual mirroring of that anywhere but dialogue with a single character who you know is intelligent and manipulative, maybe I'd bother taking an interest. As it stands, it's just an excuse for people to support the "no they're not really edgy guys!" faction.

It doesn't exist outside of Caesar.

The legions has guns because the devs couldnt balance the game by giving them all melee, the NCR would continously stomp them in random encounters

??? Theres literally a ton of references to the NCR's industrial capacity. New Vegas isn't NCR territory and it isn't indicative of their economic output. The Gun Runners produce their own guns, and it's outright stated that Ranger armor is made back in the NCR core states. These both prove that the NCR has industrial capacity enough to outfit its miliitary.
The NCR allowing unlimited reelection is shitty, but it's not necessarily corrupt. Tandi was president (Shady sands was the town, actually play the games) because she was literally a founding father, like if washington has gone for infinte reelection.
I'm not saying the NCR isn't corrupt tho. Ofc it has corruption issues, like any democracy in the real world. Except in the real world, democracies are known for being much less corrupt, and much more efficient than autocracies. Except the legion is apparently free of that shit, because the writers just say so. The legion get a free pass on this, like everything else in the game

t. [Intelligence 0/10]

>soak up all the best minds in the wasteland then refuse to co-operate with big playes like the NCR or Mr House, effectively wasting their talent
>overly idealistic and refuse to compromise on principles leading to a worse result overall
>indirectly responsible for caesar's legion, the great khans and the fiends

Are the Followers of the Apocalypse the most evil faction in the game?

They just don't make everything perfect black and white. NCR does alot of good but they have problems too. Legion does alot of bad but there's a few benefits to having them in charge.

>when youre butthurt your game got trashed but you don't actually have arguments

Yes, I enjoy siding with Mr. House so they can get BTFO. I fucking hate their disingenuous "selfless" attitude.

If they coming knocking at your place, assume you're dead or a slave.

Except the game is perfect black and white. Who the fuck, in their right minds, would choose the Legion over the NCR? Like, how could you ever possibly justify it in real life?
You can make a game gray, and still have it be realistic. Fo2 has a corrupt, warmongering NCR, just like in FNV, but it's actually written well, and it ACTUALLY makes you think, instead of this fauxlosophical "im 14 and this is edgy" bullshit

stay btfo

That's addressed to your shitty "Kreia is a nihilist" meme, which is a fucking retarded autistic opinion that shows you know nothing about Kreia.

>le edge meme
see

Even if I agreed with you that Kreia isn't a nihilist, she's still an absolutely abysmally written character, that could only appeal to a fucking teenager that thinks Obsidians critique of the Star Wars universe is deep or meaningful

>say "duh leejun is edgy" is not an argument right in the OP
>NCRetards literally cannot say anything except "DUH LEEJUN IS EDGY"

>disregard everything else I said
>focus on one tiny comment
yep, still on Sup Forums

Not an argument.
Explain why she's a bad character without your "muh nihilism" and "muh teenager" memes.

joke: caesar is a fascist
woke: caesar is a globalist

>give out tons of arguments why CL sucks
>FNVfags keep building up strawmen
Really activates my almonds

shit bait

See

See

>one example
>don't understand that either side has good/bad to it
It's meant to be a lesson to the player, what would be the point if you could automatically skip it?

>NCR
ONLY HELPS BARHMIN BARONS
>LEGION
NO CRIME OR DRUG USE WHILE THE WEST COAST IS CRIME RIDDEN DRUG USE.
Dunno/

see

A faction is only worth anything if it brings happiness to its members. The Legion condemns all women- 50% of the human population- to slavery and then enslaves some of the males too. Slaves aren't exactly happy people.
Also, fuck this gay LARPing shit

The lesson being no matter what you do Kreia is gonna berate you on how her philosphy is better than yours? Really deep shit my dude

The very fact that the Legion is somehow better off the NCR is what makes new vegas a badly written game

Let me state this simply you sociopath, Human life has interstice value, the legion enslaves and kills people because they disagree with them. The NCR is an attempt at an old world democracy, where you can be treated poorly if you don't fit the mold that society doesn't care about.

>can live happy, productive, free lives?
Shoveling brahmin shit and scavenging for scrap isnt that user.

legionbros win again, baby

>still no arguments
I'd heard FNVfags were stupid, but this is really pushing it

You do realize those people are NCR citizens who've come to the frontier to try and get rich? And not indicative of the general status of the NCR?
Besides, ill take shovelling shit to being a sex slave who's gonna end up crucified someday

>muh wimmins rights
not an argument

There's a time for war and there's a time for getting your shit in order.
For the Legion its war 24/7

How to be a legion fag:
>NOT AN ARGUMENT
>"womens rights" kek
>BUT NCR IS FLAWEDDDDDDD
>Muh degeneracy
FNV could have been an alright game if they had removed the legion

I'll ignore your mommy issues and repeat what I mentioned in the post. A huge portion of the males is enslaved too. Slaves make up the majority of the Legion's population

yeah well what if i really want sex slaves hmm? what if i want that bitch jenny from science class to fucking pay for not going to the prom with me hmm? does the ncr allow for that?

didn't fucking think so.

From the man who also founded the Legion and was the second in command for most of its existence

>le mommy issues
wow, not a single argument in sight

No civilization founded on the backs of slaves can last. Eventually the slaves will revolt and destroy the civilization.

at least now we can be thankful most legion fags are just trolling, and not actually retarded

gay lol

I'm here arguing against the legion but even i think your argument is retarded

>ignores all the arguments itt
>wow no arguments ncrfags btfo

I guess it makes sense that the incredibly delusional would naturally be inclined to support someone as incredibly delusional as caesar

>lives in tents
>uses throwing spears and chainsaws instead of machine guns
>wears ridiculous silly outfits instead of actual protective armor
>literal slavers

>b-but muh trade routes...
legion isn't just wrong, they're probably the dumbest and least sympathetic villain in the entire fallout series.
>people will still pretend NV has good writing