Watch this conference talk where they will completely shit on any other engine with their newly implemented* entity component system (ECS) + jobs architecture for big dick massive parallelism (+ auto vectorization). This is going to boost the performance by the dozens.
In addition, because of the isolation/encapsulation of data AND logic/behaviour, it will be easier to add or delete different behavioral systems, so there will be less crashes and bugs, and it will be easier to program in this environment. In contrast, when you program in the good ol' Object-Oriented way, you'll eventually end up in ugly spaghetti code because OO just isn't good for more bigger complex games.
* Maybe they'll overhaul their current component system. Because it's too heavy and has both data (class members) and behaviour (methods) which is what you NOT want in an ECS.
All that tech mumbojumbo will be 2hard4typical-neckbeards on Sup Forums.
I've always preferred post-v3 Unity over post-UE v2.5. The relative ease of use compared to other "start from scratch" platforms, combined with the huge, active and helpful community and modular design, are all god-sent to tiny no-budget gamedevs like me.
Michael Moore
>Where were you when Unity BTFO'd Unreal? I was where you were when Unreal was first released: deep inside your mom.
Grayson Gomez
>2017 >not writing your own programming language and a compiler for it >not writing an entire OS with all the necessary drivers with your own programming language >not writing a state of the art game engine in your own OS with your own programming language which is of course compiler with your own compiler
Sebastian Collins
>C# "haha"
Dominic Anderson
Even if Unity beats Unreal, it still pales in comparison to Godot. Nodes > ECS
Parker King
not making your own computer from parts you gathered in the wild yourself do you even dev?
Mason Walker
it will NEVER perform as fast as anything written in C++, just deal with it kid
Asher Hughes
>All that tech mumbojumbo will be 2hard4typical-neckbeards on Sup Forums. You mean all that UNITY mumbo jumbo. I have a Master's Degree in Computer Science and I wouldn't know a monobehaviour from a C# script.
Elijah Long
And C++ will never perform as fast as anything written in C, bucko.
Asher Powell
imagine what games we would have right now if devs optimized their games properly instead of using more powerful hardware as an excuse to be lazy
Jaxson Davis
UE4 >free >full source access >developed by a team that made several highly award games throughout their career
Unity >$3000 >no source code >gimbal lock in the editor >has never been used by its own developers to make a game
Jaxson Torres
And C will never perform as fast as anything written in ASM, bucko.
Seriously though, not him, but isn't C++ pretty much the best language for game dev if you look at the efficiency/effort ratio?
Thomas Gomez
Love already has fully compliant ECS system and Lua has better performance as an embedding script than C#. Once again Unity is too slow.
Leo Miller
Lol what I'm pretty sure those aren't mutually exclusive. Plus gameobjects already act like nodes in unity. I don't know what you're smoking
Samuel Hughes
Unity was already ECS, what is this retardation?
Nathan Rivera
Did they at all address the ocean of shit asset flippers using their engine?
Nathaniel Watson
>my company literally working with google >using unity instead of unreal unreal is way expensive for enterprise
Kevin Watson
Why would they? The CEP already defended then and it's their monetization strategy.
Liam Edwards
I haven't heard it being addressed, but let the market deal with that, imo. Can you think of a solution that they could propose that wouldn't just harm regular users?
James Reed
i sure can't wait until the 1 unity game that's going to actually make use of all this new good stuff
Jordan Perry
>the absolute state of c++ in that pic
Juan Perry
True ECS doesn't embed methods into objects like Unity does. Instead there are top level functions (systems) that iterate over objects/data structures (entities) which are composed of smaller components. It's much cleaner than typical OOP even just from a function pointer and vtable management perspective. It's actually what you would do if you were to write a game in C.
Samuel Gray
>giving johnny ravioli money >any year
Liam Hughes
I bet on Tim sweeney. Fuck unity and fuck ricotello
Angel Brown
CEO* them* fug
Carter Adams
Maybe, but some people can't stand OOP.
Xavier Brown
>writes basic "Hello World" level C++ >still gets it wrong Amazing
Ryder Reed
Also UE4 is used by pretty much all industry professionals. Unity is mostly used to make shovelware and mediocre FOTM indies by literally who studios.
Hunter Gutierrez
I don't see how that's revolutionary or anything, ECS is ancient and commonly used and Unity's biggest performance bottleneck by far is the rendering and not the scripting.
James Russell
Do you have any control of the rendering pipeline with these engines?
Jacob Rivera
probably at home
Jacob Gomez
unity is the blackest box there is, you can't even read the source code
Jason Bailey
>have X amount of dollars to make a game >spend resources optimizing it for literally no reason because most hardware can support it go ahead and try writing the most optimized game you can and see how far behind you get.
Justin Foster
It's easier to support auto-vectorization and inferred parallelism if you use a single method to iterate over a large amount of data (several objects) than it is to handle multiple self-contained methods operating on separate data. It will help Unity scale.
Hudson Powell
Blame artfags who cant optimise their shit. There are better more efficient engines atm, but that doesn't mean you can't optimise Unity to an adequate level. You just need to know technical shit.
the underlying system is written in C++ which is very efficient. C# is just an interface for it.
the thing is components are way too bloated currently because they inherit too much from monobehaviour. Plus they get updated each frame which is silly when not needed (not sure if this is optimized by unity). Thats partly why they partly went away from monobehaviour and introduced scriptableobject. youtube.com/watch?v=VBA1QCoEAX4
No unity currently has a half-assed ECS (without system) where components have both data AND logic/behaviour. You want to seperate these two so that entities (gameobjects) hold components, and systems only query those relevant gameobjects with the components the system is interested in. Let's say you have an AI system specially for enemies with a shield, you want to query all the objects with an AI component and a shield component, then execute the behaviour you want. Unity does NOT have that. Every component has data and logic which leads to spaghetti code and a lot of fuckups
Won't the "Tweeter= Gamergater" condition always return true since it's an assignment?
Brody Scott
you two are brothers?
Connor Miller
You got it
Christopher Harris
so say I want to do some meme computation on the GPU and turn it into graphics, I can't do it in any sane way? Like say I wanted to do volumetric clouds through some sparse voxel octree shit on signed distance fields and all sorts of weird GPGPU shit, I can't? I basically have to do it in a way Unity likes, so like polygons with sprites on them?
Jaxon Robinson
as long as it can be assigned, yes
Lucas Gomez
>not constructing materials atom by atom
Really?
Jose Russell
did you try google yet
Ayden Hernandez
This is nice and all but I'll just wait for Godot to better support ECS or continue using Love. Not going to support a game engine as blackboxed as Unity.
Dylan Hall
Then just like make your own engine bro
Christian Rivera
I don't know what to google really, I'm just trying to figure out if these engines limit how you can do graphics
Camden Jones
Or just use literally any other engine in the market since they all have free source access (yes including UE4).
Brandon Roberts
Not interested in re-developing the wheel. Whenever I run into an issue that requires additional acceleration in Godot I just extend the engine with my own C++ modules. Good enough for me.
Austin White
I don't know how fucky you can get with it but volumetric clouds are certainly doable, the problem is that Unity has a horribly unoptimized renderer which shits the bed pretty hard in big scenes and fancy stuff.
Dominic Lewis
But doesn't it drive you insane to not be able to do the things enginedevs do?
Xavier Harris
google unity GPU or whatever API you want to use. Or volumetric clouds. It looks like there's no shortage of assets trying to do that
Julian Bailey
>every single update has been fucking and bloating the engine more and more >THIS time it will be great though!!
Aaron Thomas
I don't understand what you mean. I have full source access. I can modify or create whatever I want. There's no point in re-creating what's already good in the package from scratch.
Gavin Long
scriptable objects are a meme. You can make your own Monobehaviour if you really don't like it. You just need an editor script to let it interface with the editor. Or just stop using the editor to build your game.
Jackson Martin
Not him but what do you mean by that? Godot is open source so you can tweak it in any way you want, and the next update will let you use almost any language you want for scripting with no performance loss.
Jeremiah Young
It depends on the value being assigned to the variable.
Lucas Thomas
I'm still waiting on that realtime dynamic GI they promised.
Bentley Sanders
WHAT
even python?
Jack Murphy
But if you haven't made an engine from scratch, then you don't really understand the work that goes into it.
Thomas Ortiz
Yeah, you have to write your own bindings to add new languages but there's already people working on a python module, it will "officially" come with C++ support too. godotengine.org/article/beta-release-python-support
Isaac Perry
GDScript is basically python but yes, actual python is on the way and there's a development tree for it
Jack Hall
>public abstract class MyClass what have I done
Justin Allen
>meanwhile UE4 is being used for basically every big game from realistic to anime I'm sure they're spooked
Dylan Foster
>meanwhile UE4 is being used for basically every big game from realistic to anime give me 10 examples
Xavier Richardson
OOP was invented by the CIA because languages like LISP were too powerful, so they conspired to turn all of computer science into a dedicated shitting street. There's a reason why every new CS student has to learn Java.
Unreal had parallel job system since 4,x release, you would need C++ knowledge and it just a base you can start off but still dont udnerstand why it took Unity 5 years lol
Nicholas Lewis
mfw people shit on stuff like Java for objects while pretending C++ isn't an object oriented language
Colton Anderson
>literally 2 games and shovelware wow, just like unity.
Jordan Myers
I don't like how I don't know what's going on in these engines, sure they are easy for shitting out games with since you can just import models do some scripting but how everything behind the scenes works is pretty unclear so I have no idea if implementing something in unity makes it 1000x slower than it needs to be because I have no idea what the engine is doing when I tell it to shit out a sprite to the screen or something, I wonder how low level you can get with Unity.
Anthony Smith
>ont udnerstand why it took Unity 5 years Because of the asset store.
Jaxson Roberts
No, it won't because that shit wont compile you cant assigg in IF statement (unlike for). Compiler just tell you to fuck off
Angel Foster
SFV Tekken 7 Ace Combat 7 Final Fantasy VII Remake PUBG Injustice Batman Arkham series Psychonauts 2 Gears of War 4 Yoshi Switch
plus a few hundred more high profile games
Asher Gomez
I just tested it. Compiler was cool with it. Do you have some fancy shmancy IDE that calls it?
Christian Cook
Assignment operator has a return value you fucking cunt and nothing is preventing you from using assignment in if statements
Benjamin Roberts
C++ is some weird-ass swiss-army knife shit. It's definitely a meme language that was designed to make hiring programmers cheaper though.
Smalltalk and C should have never combined.
Dominic Turner
>plus a few hundred more high profile games im sure there are a hundred high profile games on the market
Levi Harris
Depends on the language and compiler, GameMaker lets you use = for comparisons which is retarded but hey.
Easton Carter
to put it in perspective the only truly notable unity games are Ori, Hollow Knight, and Cuphead.
Dylan Long
Blame Simula. Norwegians invented objects.
Leo Sullivan
unity is still god awful for its editor i dont know why people praise this shitty engine
Ryder Morgan
marketing and being one of the first usable 3D engines
John Mitchell
Because some people want to make [shitty|good] games instead of spending 10 years writing engine or using some complex monster for 5 years
Kayden Jackson
its quick, cheap, and easy.
Colton Watson
Sunk cost fallacy.
Sebastian Green
But I don't. C++ is certainly less retarded than Java, but C is still better.
Asher Murphy
>OOP was invented by the CIA because languages like LISP were too powerful
Are you making a joke or a retarded junior comsci student that can't understand OOP?
Isaiah Lopez
Except products that are simpler to use have less sunk cost fallacy associated with them. Stop name dropping pages you read on wikipedia.
Christian Bell
You can put anything in an if statement as long as it has a return value.
Benjamin Long
No, he's probably like sixty and can't progress beyond his first languages.
Tyler Moore
UE4 is far better and makes your life much easier than Unity in pretty much every way, they just don't have the same marketing budget.
Michael Sanchez
CIA psyops are no joke, my friend.
Asher Collins
Please nigger, UE4 is far more complex than Unity, I've tried both.
Jacob Morgan
>UE4 is far better For what?
I rarely see UE4 being used for indie games, you don't need that strong of an engine unless you have a huge team and a triple A type of development budget.
Jeremiah Robinson
Godot easily has the best editor.
Jose Sullivan
I've used both too and UE4 is a lot better once you go past the very basics, Unity is basically a collection of growing pains that force you to buy assets to fix shit.
Aiden Roberts
>not using UE1, the engine that was used to create the greatest game of all time
Connor Bennett
>they just don't have the same marketing budget. we're talking about Epic, right?