Is there a way to save MMORPGs?

Is there a way to save MMORPGs?

I want to go back.

Ripe tomato with a bit of sugar cut into a fruit salad is actually fucking delicious.

Drop the "Trinity" and "Forced teamwork" bullshit, especially being punished for other people's mistakes.
>Boss has mechanic where 12 people have to stand in exact spots
>All 12 people die if one person isn't in the right spot

There is only so much patience in the world.

Eve is still good.

>Drop the "Trinity"
Didn't GW2 try this?

Literally GW2 and people complained because of a lack of trinity.

Essentially MMOs need to go back to having a 'stickyness' that was present in old MMOs, like vanilla WoW and Maplestory. Pretty much boils down to slow but rewarding progression.

They said MMO not spreadsheet nightmare.

it's actually pretty easy ((in theory))

here's what you need to make a good mmo
>good concept as with any game
>non-jew devs/publishers
>fair business model and no cash shop
>focus on atmosphere and ambient bgm over photorealistic graphics and voice acting
>focus on exploration and involving, intricate combat/ability system
>DELETE wikis
>open world pvp
>territory conquest/castle sieges for fame and money
>lifeskills
>actual class diversity with obvious strengths and weaknesses
>many levels and tiers of gears
>game doesn't start at levelcap
>devs stick to their guns and doesn't pander to anyone


there, i fixed it

And those people need to find another game to play.

ssssh no dreams

only PUBG now

>non-jew devs/publishers
>devs stick to their guns and doesn't pander to anyone
and
>MMO with lots of high quality content
Are mutual exclusives unless you have a company completely backed by a billionaire who doesn't care about how much money is sunk into it.

>DELETE wikis
If only. But they are quite useful
>open world pvp
Flagged, maybe, has to be some restriction if you're going to add exploration and lifeskills involving.
>actual class diversity with obvious strengths and weaknesses
This is the shit killing FFXIV, they're too concerned with "balance" that all the classes play nearly identical with just a different flavor of looks.
>game doesn't start at levelcap
Double-edged sword, to use FFXIV as an example, 90% of the game is progress and lifeskills jewery, endgame and raiding is maybe the last 10%
It also has a horrible retention ratio as people rapidly unsub after the first month of a new patch and return months later to continue.
Everybody in between is still progressing and grinding until they too reach endgame and no longer find reasons to play.

DDO actually had good "action" combat, and normal attacks actually mattered if they could expand on that it would be great

funny how the best MMO at this moment achieved its greatness by return to its former glory (2007 version)

MMOs are forever fucked. Post dream MMOs instead

i realize some capital is needed to make such a game, but shit like kickstarter opens some possibilities for better or worse. also wow (and other mmos) did alright with a montly sub model, the problem is a game being buy to play, monthly sub and on top of that having a cash shop. b2p/monthly sub is fair.

>>DELETE wikis
>If only. But they are quite useful
sure, but useful doesn't equal fun or rewarding. whats the point of a big world with nooks and crannies to explore if you'll just wiki every challenge and walk in a straight line to the objective.

>>open world pvp
>Flagged, maybe, has to be some restriction if you're going to add exploration and lifeskills involving.
i think conflict/player interaction is the lifeblood of mmos. having pve/pvp servers is reasonable. pveers complain a lot about pvp griefing, but theres 2 sides to a coin meaning if there is competition of resources in the open world and the only possible resolution is through verbal communication, then what happens when the carebears hogging all the resources doesn't agree to share the gathering spots (or whatever)? thats griefing too, but its worse because the issue can't possibly be resolved whereas in a pvp scenario you can always improve your skill/gear and fight back.

>>game doesn't start at levelcap
>Double-edged sword, to use FFXIV as an example, 90% of the game is progress and lifeskills jewery, endgame and raiding is maybe the last 10%
>It also has a horrible retention ratio as people rapidly unsub after the first month of a new patch and return months later to continue.
>Everybody in between is still progressing and grinding until they too reach endgame and no longer find reasons to play.

i don't think it's a double edged sword because typically the alternative is to rush through meaningless placeholder content just to reach endgame. there needs to be milestones along the way that aren't simply hitting the level cap.

Not really, GW2 just deprecated the role of the core healer and made healing more of a group effort/personal responsibility, which in turn slightly lessened the tank role as most classes were much more self-sufficient. This is only the case in the open world where everything is piss easy so you could have a retarded build and still beat everything.
As time went on, the changes GW2 made to the class talents and specializations only further enforced the old trinity, especially when you're doing raid stuff. Most classes are capable of kitting up for multiple types of tanking, healing or DPS, and players WILL specialize in one of the big three for a run.

I want more Asheron's Call style where you built your character any way you pleased, and a lot of stuff in the open world (not lame ass instanced organized raids with stupid shit like DPS checks as the only "challenge") could kick your ass.

>sci-fi where you are playing a space marine vs alien animals like terran vs zerg in starcraft
>1-2 mobs can kill you
>you have to replenish your air at air stations scattered in the world every 1-2 hours

>Have static world map
>Everything in it is dynamic
>All characters are ironman mode
>Combat is real-time
>No classes, instead have a literal huge selection of gear that fits any playstyle
>You can even customize gear further if it doesn't fit your style
>Less stats focused, more on skill
>World is dystopian sci-fi planet
>Have dynamic alignment system
>No real goal other than fuck around
>NPCs will trigger different events around you can partake in to receive alignment points
>Have formable guilds that have different purposes
>Some are police guilds, bounty-hunter, criminal, merchants, sellswords etc
>You can own shops and have a market input
>If someone robs shop, better invest in good NPC protection or even players
>The more crime you do, the more players are gonna be after you
>Rewards imprisonment rather than just killing
>No level system, instead have it all related to skill and slight input from what gear you have

Jet Set Radio MMO where you can click "examine" and get various quirky text like in runescape. It cannot be datamined and bands of retards regularly vandalize all the relevant wikis so no information is for certain. The game itself isn't advertised as any particular genre aside from "MMO" so nobody knows what to expect.

Here is my shitty idea
>Drop all healing classes
>Healing can only be done with potions and out of combat camping
>Give all players the same amount of health
>Defence is based off of what armour you wear
>Heavy armour gives tank defence but decreases your visibility, movement, and attack speed, depending on which pieces you wear.
>Medium Armour gives increased dexterity and movement (fitted armour) but decreases your visibility, attack speed and magic defence
>Light armour gives increased magic defence and movement but lowers your dexterity and gives minimal physical defence
>Classes give a variety of different skills based on what you want to do but are separate to your character level
>The max a class level can be is 15, the lowest is 5 (the lower the max class level is, the more powerful the class is but they also take more xp to level up per level)
>The max player level at launch is 60
>You can only have as many total class levels as your player level
>Class levels require far less xp than a player level
>You don't need to max out a class to swap to others (you could have one class for every level is you were crazy enough)

For example, a level 30 player can have 10 levels in warrior, 3 in knight, 7 in Paladin and 6 in Executioner, with 4 levels left over for their classes to level up in.

Gameplay aside, (MMO)RPGs must diversify their settings IMO. Ever since WoW and LOTR all major RPGs use the same fantasy setting with small deviations here and there

There should be more worlds like Mass effect's or Deus Ex or Anarchronox or Anarchy Online KOTOR etc. Anyone else wants to see that instead of more medieval fantasy?

An MMO that is basically one big DnD session. The GMs of the server control the world events, and the world is reset after each session. This will bring the roleplaying back to MMORPG and also fight against wiki datamining a bit.
Less emphasis on holy trinity bullshit. Healers exist but will only be effective during downtime.
Almost everything will require a group to clear if you're not a dickass thief. Leaving the starter zone without understanding how to form and play in a group will not be possible.
Stat inflation will be minimal. A group of level 10s should have a chance against a level 30, but a level 30 will still destroy a level 10. Levelling will be less grindy to account for the world resets.
Some items can be carried over each session, and you can obtain some perks depending on your achievements. For example, someone who hits the level cap can have +20% exp gain next session.

>Is there a way to save MMORPGs?
Delete social media and wikis.

>dystopian low fantasy mmo set in the dark ages
>no sunlight, always foggy/raining/whatever
>all the npcs are thieves/murderers/rapists
>instead of dragons and fairies, mobs are mostly deformed humanoids
>the world is multi-layered, with dungeons and maze-like passages leading underground or into mountains
>classes like plague bringer, witch doctor, burglar etc
>minimalistic ui
>loot doesn't disappear, instead sinks into ground/gets covered by dust/buried by landslides/whatever, can be discovered by digging/mining
>can commit crimes but npcs are bitches and will snitch on you

>>dystopian low fantasy mmo set in the dark ages
Sounds sweet but wouldn't be an oxymoron? Players in MMOs constantly produce wealth one way or another. How will this work in a dystopian world where resources are extremely scarce?

Runescape, but the grafix aren't pants on head retarded, the music retains its MIDI influence instead of orchestral bullshit, combat is not the main focus, difficult combat does not consist of playing Twister while flicking prayers like an ADHD riddled child, the world is different and there's even more quests than before (with multiple solutions and varying rewards based on the difficulty of achieving them)

A setting that is displaced through time, you get medieval fantasy sword&sorcery and distant future sci-fi transposed on top of a modern day city. Three timelines overlapping one another with areas in random flux, switching between each time period.

You are in control of a party of 3+ characters that move in formation (sort of like Granado Espada or Dungeon Siege/Baldur's/Neverwinter/Icewind). This is so that you can have characters from one or all periods at once, to allow for greater flexibility/specializations on-hand, and to add a bit more dynamic action in the slow and dull typical MMO kind of gameplay. You control the three of them either as a single unit, or switching between and moving them independently as you please like a small Tactics/RTS game. There will be no Raids or instances, the open world will be difficult - tactics will best power - and there will be major events taking place all over that do not echo themselves to the entire server; you just find them.

No level up/class systems; you determine each character's timeline, base stats and skills and head out. You later outfit them with gear and equippable skills that you find.
Little to none of the gear should become deprecated by "stronger" gear like a loot-em-up where 99% of stuff on the ground is junk. Each weapon/armor/accessory will have some unique trait or ability that could be useful for a variety of builds.

While ammunition for most things won't be a concern, superior gear will have some limited use and/or drawbacks (that BFG uses rare ammo and is heavy as fuck, a magic scroll that summons a big meteor is a one time use). A player market should come about from the high powered consumable superweapons and their ammo sources (All-Tech party trades magic gear with an All-Sorcery player who found some energy cells, one guy farms/crafts the strongest potions, a guild stockpiles a ton of nukes for a rainy day).

didn't really think about that since i was just daydreaming... i mean, i say dystopian world but it doesn't mean the world was always that way. there could be some jew motherfucker keeping all/most of the treasure to himself. an enemy you defeat is dirtpoor, but you loot that was passed down to his parent from his grandparents, then his parents down to him. or the enemy is a ghoul who robbed and killed some peasant in his sleep. quality over quanitity. something along those lines.

The bad news is that mainstream MMOs are basically dead in the same way that the RTS is dead.

There were tons of RTS games in the mid-late 90s and early 00s, but eventually things sort of went around in a circle and the public kind of lost interest. MMOs were sort of going interesting places until SWG fucked up everything and WoW crushed the market, but even that kind of stuff wasn't sustainable - who remembers the old days of "every single korean grindfest is indistinguishable" followed by "every single WoW clone is indistinguishable"? Other multiplayer games have sort of taken some of the wind out of MMOs. MOBAs, Class-based FPS, survival and sandboxy games which support small player numbers like Minecraft and its derivatives.

Add to that the mainstreaming of the internet - Facebook made sure that a whole lot of ordinary people came to the internet, and they kind of run the place now. Everything's a lot more focused.

And really, there are still going to be MMOs, but the mainstream ones are going to be these sort of contrived and partially watered down things. And nobody wants to risk investing into a dead genre. Which means it'll come down to the indies to actually make interesting things in the MMO space.

The good news is, running an MMO is actually a lot cheaper than you might think.

The biggest running cost of an MMO is staff. If you're prepared to let your MMO be a kind of lawless hellscape (or give people reasonable self-moderation tools), the main running cost is going to be servers, and servers are cheap as dirt these days provided that your actual server architecture is sane. You can do a lot with what a 200-dollar-a-month server can give you, if you're smart about it.

Most of the talk about design in this thread is kinda fluffy thematic garbage. None of that really matters. These designs need to be constructed on the premise that they're going to be run by independent developers.

I'm going to try this and if you have lied to me I swear by the beard of Zeus I will return and shitpost to no end.

>Or pay to extend your O2 levels in this premium feature.
No thanks.
But A+ for effort. Actually sounds cool for a starting point.

Wildstar had a lot of that and it failed miserably.

>I want to go back.
Isn't EverQuest still alive?

>DELETE wikis
Impossible to do, although helpful, actively deleting would be censorship.
Either way, I think data mining is the real problem here.

asheron's call was still based around the old MUD format of combat. burn the enemy before they burn you. mages being the squishiest but able to dps the fastest by far thanks to spells that require ACTUAL reagents you need to gather by hand

I think the community in general is in the wrong here, people these day min-max like crazy and rush to levelcap as soon as possible.

Step 1:
Make a good game first

Step 2:
Allow multiplayer

Step 3:
Improve multiplayer performance for hundreds to thousands of simultaneous players

You now have your "MMO" that doesn't suck.

Continued with thoughts on what an indie MMO would need to succeed.

Firstly, it can't hinge on manual content. You need to focus on systems of play out of which interesting complexity naturally arises, and procedural generation. Trying to say "and yeah we'll have 50 billion dungeons" is suicidal hogshit because you're not going to be able to produce that kind of content.

Secondly, it can't hinge on staffing. You can't say you'll have GMs do custom events on this shit. If your running costs are anything other than silicon, you're dead. You can't afford to pay people. Not good people.

Thirdly, you can't build on existing paradigms. You can't just be like okay we'll have WoW but the world is PROCEDURALLY GENERATED, and the reason for that is not that procedural content is shit (it doesn't have to be), but because people have done the level-class-grind-dungeon-raid bullshit already.

You need free to play, and you need to be real fucking modest about it. You can't go with a subscription. You lose too many people that way. You also can't just play the standard cash shop game. You can't afford to lock gameplay behind a cash wall. You can't afford to offer mechanical boosts. But you also can't afford to lock 99% of your cool aesthetics behind a shop either. You have to be more generous. You have to limit what can be sold to what you barely need. You need a cash shop which would make a studio executive balk and say "But you could be monetizing so much more!" and then you need to not monetize. You need to, because you need to be able to afford to. You need to run lean.

Because you can't afford staff, you have to build your game to run itself 99.9% of the time. Fuck events. You want events, program them in. You want new content, you'd better have a generator. You produce the bare minimum hand-crafted content to hold your game systems together.

Make combat actually skill based instead of playing piano with numeric keys
Make the world feel alive instead of being a theme park
Remove ridiculous amounts of grinding, cheesing and powergaming being pretty much a requirement for high level play

No. I don't know the business model but I'd probably use either cosmetic shop (with most of these things still obtainable in the game) or a very small sub fee. The game itself would be free to download regardless of business model, not that sixty dollar multiplayer only bullshit.

Just do what EVE does.
You can play f2p but you are limited, you can buy a subscription and access the entire world.
Though you can also buy your way to a subscription with game money if you jew enough.

Dystopian means society sucks, not that it's completely collapsed.

And so you create Warframe

I will now proceed to shit on the ideas of other people.

If you start talking about the trinity you've already fucking lost. If your game is a game where the trinity makes any kind of logical sense, regardless of if it even has it, you've already regurgitated unoriginal shit that is doomed to failure.

Delusional, impractical, unsustainable. Also, delete wikis? Hey guys let's have flying cars we'll just get rid of gravity

>Have a lot of content and also real time combat because I don't understand the problems of the internet
Throwing money at the problem, even if you had the money, will not save you.

You're actually looking into game systems. You have a chance, but think more creatively.

Diversification of setting is suicide. People say they want a new interesting setting. They fucking lie. Give them elves. Give them elves until they choke on their stupid pointed ears. But give them elves clothed in interesting dynamics, but give them elves.

You don't just add multiplayer, let alone large-scale multiplayer. If you don't plan ahead it's a technical and design nightmare.


That's all I got. Genre's probably fucked forever until some random fuckoff indie dev comes out of nowhere and sweeps the entire world in a flavor of the month that turns into a flavor of the decade. I'm working on it, I swear.

A new world is coming, my friend.

the 'trinity' is pve. drop pve. mmos should be about player interaction

>YOU CAN BE AND DO ANYTHING
>game gets canceled

No, it's all ERPfaggotry and circlejerking now. That's what the people like

No. The issues fucking up MMOs transcended the genre itself. It's the influx of normies and people without dedicated time to playing the game that have fucked with everything. On top of that, though less importantly and less of an issue than the catered-to, constantly shifting revolving door playerbase, is the datamining community which has totally, and foreverially fucked up any sort of secret anything in an mmo. You will never have to socialize ever again to find out where exactly on this map this particular thing is. Ever. It's over.

Team based PVE is also player interaction though. Making a MMO with only PVP would just turn into some pubg-like crap

Bdo had everything you mentioned except cash shop and is still a garbage game
Gear>skill, grindfest, boring overall with lame as fuck PK system (PK is what motivates me to play an mmorpg)

>Team based PVE is also player interaction though
it's not a player-run world though, you're just playing through the shit the devs put there for you, and then you run out of things to do and they need to make more
>Making a MMO with only PVP would just turn into some pubg-like crap
you can have some pve if you like, but having it be the main focus of the game makes the mmo aspect pointless, you may as well play diablo or something

The trinity cannot be dropped from MMOs unless the gameplay they use is redesigned.

As long as MMOs use some form of tab targeted combat, the trinity is essential to cover up the flaws this kind of gameplay has.
The problem is this kind of gameplay doesn't have precised collision detection, if an attack is targeted at you, it always hits you and dodging it isn't an option. You have no dodge or block move, no iframes that require precise timing, you're just expected to take the hits. Because of this, the person getting hit should naturally be the best person at getting hit, and since damage is unavoidable and fights are usually long, you need someone to heal damage otherwise people die. Now you have your tank and healer, everyone else is essentially there to do damage.

Although the games aren't very good, Destiny is an example of a MMO that successfully dropped the trinity system. It's gameplay is different and you can avoid incoming attacks and usually you have to. Because of this it has no real designated roles, just classes that offer things to a group.

To remove the trinity you need to change the gameplay of MMOs.

there's more mmos than your wowlikes mate

I had a dream once I was playing as a high level wizard in a mmo. I had discovered a high level dominate creature spell so I got my guild together and we went to an ancient dragon boss' lair. A dedicated team got to work keeping it rooted in place while I and another group placed ourselves in a circle around and I started casting the spell. Me and the group in the center entered a dream like world of us and the dragon and our battle for it's mind had begun. Outside, another guild had come by to kill the dragon boss and the rest of our guild engaged them in combat. After an hour of fierce combat on both ends the dragons' mind was ours and our guild was now the proud owner of a shiny new minion. And then I woke up and realized MMOs will never be this good

good thing UO, EVE, and PUBG exist.

>inb4 PUBG isn't a MMO
more of a MMO than Final Fantasy and modern WoW.

Yeah, and funnily enough most of them don't have the trinity. But we both know when the vast majority of people say "MMO" they mean a game like WoW, which requires the trinity to work.

How important are graphics in an MMO? I feel like Runescape is the exception.

Personally I'm not interested in the most realistic looking MMO but I'm curious about what others look for.

If you want to save MMORPGS you would need to make people interested again, communities were the bedrock of the mmos, and today people prefer playing alone than with their guilds
You can't save mmos because the problem isn't the game
also shut down all the asian mmo who all look the same

most treat it as a dressup simulator so I'm guessing it's important to anyone playing new MMOs

Would actually prefer them on the low side. Most MMOs with good graphics tend to run like complete ass, even with a good computer and especially in crowded places.

I mean, I don't really care how the game looks, but I sure as shit don't enjoy getting 2FPS everytime I walk into a crowded town.

They don't have to have brand new 4k graphics, but exploration, atmosphere and just chilling around the world are important aspects of an MMO for me, so I want it to look like something released at least in past 5 years

You don't need incredible graphics to have a good mmo, runescape, dofus or wow didn't have good graphics but were very good mmo

You're partly right. A large problem with MMOs is the player base and their refusal to play anything different. The demand MMOs basically be single player, they demand that MMOs follow a certain structure (quick rush to end game followed by gear treadmill) and they refuse to play any MMO that doesn't follow what their notion of a MMO is.

Developers are just as bad though, they're the ones who slowly molded the genre into this, casualised the games and introduced an entire group of people to the genre who have never known better.

Honestly, until a MMO comes out that does things wildly new, different and does an actual good job of it, the MMO genre will never get better.

Is it really possible to redefine the MMO genre at this point? Do we need a new genre?

>People say they want a new interesting setting. They fucking lie. Give them elves. Give them elves until they choke on their stupid pointed ears. But give them elves clothed in interesting dynamics, but give them elves.
Three timelines, three kinds of elves!
Sexy magical elves in absurd form-fitting arcane dressses!
Sexy contemporary elves in tactical gear and pencil skirt office outfits!
Sexy space elves in skintight bodysuits with seemingly pointless glowy bits in all the right spots!
I got your elves.

>no MTXs in sight other than acquiring membership (Which is ok since companies do need to make money and you can still buy a bond with in-game cash)
>community votes for updates they want
>game still mantains the old one's spirit, although in a lesser degree thanks to things like the GE

Its amazing how far gone most MMORPGs have gone when comparing them to Old School Runescape

They should create a mmo but not call it like this, hide the fact that it's a mmo behind another word, that would be enough

as an evefag, the expectations of wowfags really trigger me. fags all talk about massively multiplayer as though it has to include a levelling system, a fantasy setting and healtankdps pve. do you want a player-run world with massively multiplayer interactions where you can do interesting shit, or do you want to reach muh level cap and farm purples or whatever with 10 guys on instanced sharded tiny servers with nothing to do

To bad the community is retarded when it comes to the votes

Showing results before someone votes is retarded and unintentionally causes bandwagoning.

They take suggestions from the meme graveyard that is the rs2007 subreddit. For every good suggestion you get 100 recycled memes and dumb ones

We probably need some kind of offshoot genre. Kind of like how we have JRPGs, western RPGs and so on.

But still, go talk to any MMO player about changing things in a MMO, they will actively argue against most changes purely because they literally cannot imagine the genre being any different to what it is now.

I remember talking to someone about dungeons in MMOs once. I said it'd be nice to have big dungeons to explore with puzzles, challenges, hidden places and so on. He got pissy as fuck at me because to him a dungeon could only ever be a quick 15-20 minute instanced run to a boss with a chance at dropping the next tier of equipment. He literally could not imagine a dungeon being anything other than this.
He just could not understand what I was trying to explain to him and said if any MMO was like that, he'd avoid them.

This is unfortunately how many MMO players think.

just need a good artstyle, and it's good

>Diversification of setting is suicide. People say they want a new interesting setting. They fucking lie. Give them elves. Give them elves until they choke on their stupid pointed ears. But give them elves clothed in interesting dynamics, but give them elves.
you should diversify your setting vertically instead of horizontally
sure, keep the generic fantasy bedrock, but make the lore and designs deep and unusual
just look at dark souls, that shit's all medieval armors and castles, but the small touches is what makes it stand out
a thing with mass-market appeal is that you need something that's understandable by the clueless customer upfront, then when you hooked them you can keep them by doing something that makes it special
everyone understands that elves are nature-loving ninja assholes and that dwarves are strong, upfront and practical, nobody has a fucking clue what your donut steel original fantasy race is supposed to be about from a glance

>I said it'd be nice to have big dungeons to explore with puzzles, challenges, hidden places and so on
Wakfu tried to do something like this, with different type of dungeon and some items hidden inside the dungeons, unfortunately mmo players don't give a shit about any mecanics who aren't part of the WoW-like model

even if someone makes a better version of the mmo you're playing, it doesn't mean you will necessarily play it. there's network effect, there's your long term investment in the game, and you probably won't be playing more than one at a time

I have the problem of armor being too detailed without ways to customize it. Think of FF14 and how detailed it can get, but your dying of the armor goes to shit and you can't make what you want and it ends up looking REALLY bad because of how detailed it is, so too much detail is a hindrance in its own way.

Artstyle >>>> Graphics.
MMOs already run like shit based solely on the fact that several hundreds of players are on the same shard together. The last thing MMOs need is even more performance issues. Graphics are nice for taking pretty screenshots and making characters that resemble celebrities, but if the gameplay is good it can look like a game from fucking 2004 for all I care. I personally prefer the dated graphics where textures look like absolute shit, there's something really charming about them.

>I said it'd be nice to have big dungeons to explore with puzzles, challenges

This would be neat but it requires either playing solo or with a group of dedicated friends who want to spent a lot of time exploring dungeons (which I think would actually be fantastic).

this

most mmo gamers are either faggots or women who spend more time in character creation than ingame

MMOs as we used to know them are dead.

We went from world exploration, intreaction and roleplaying with other people to "LETS GRIND THE SAME ACTIVITY/MONSTER FOR HOURS TO END WHILE TALKING ON CLAN CHAT, BECAUSE THAT IS INTERACTIVITY RITE GUISE?"

You just can't have a MMORPG like the ones of old in the times we live today and have it be successful, i just don't think there is a big enough of an audience for that, as much as i would love to have it

Would be happy with the ability to change the colors? Multiple colors per piece if there's enough detail.

Must be clean and not getting in your way AND they must fit with the game's world and atmosphere.
WoW became big because it always had fitting art style. Same with other non-MMOs like LoL or hearthstone.
Therefore they are quite important.

Thats the thing 95% of games don't allow multiple colors, that would fix a lot of the issues but people just don't allow it.

>Tfw I haven't got into MMOs when I was younger and I've never experienced this golden age

Go play a MUD

You're saying that like either of those is a bad thing, when it's not. But this is how MMO players (and developers) act, they see a suggestion or idea and their response is "well that's bad because it's different to what is normally done".

As long as people have this mindset, MMOs cannot be good.

>but people just don't allow it.

A system like that really needs to be designed and integrated into the core of the game before it launches. Adding that in later would be a major headache as it would involve rewriting the art pipeline and workflow of the game.

eve is still here

>food analogy

>MUD
What?

Is not like everyone was doing exactly this, but everyone was new to the genre, the older the genre got, the more they realised that it was a videogame and started treating it as such

It is one of the things that has kept games like Runescape alive, that game ALLWAYS had a big level grind but thanks to quests and different methods of doing things you still had to work your way to the top and that could take a long time even, games like that still exist as says, EVE is a great example though the main reason why some people don't bother with it is because they imagine players who have been playing for a long time have a huge advantage against them and they might aswell not bother

>You're saying that like either of those is a bad thing, when it's not

That wasn't my intention, my sole reason replying was that I think it's a good idea. I was trying to give a viewpoint from the people who are entrenched in classic MMO dungeon design.

On a slightly different note - thinking about it now it's almost as if most players who run dungeons in WoW don't actually want to play with other people. Infact they'd probably prefer to just do it solo if they could. The people who run the same dungeons every day just want to rush through quickly and if anyone lags behind they'll get called out. Both players suffer from a negative interaction that makes them not want to play with others. Obviously this only applies to the players who use the queue system as players who organise their own groups instead of using the queue clearly want to play with others.

I don't have a point with this, just making an observation.

GW2 has up to 4 dye channels per armor piece if that's what you mean. It's not impossible but it has to be designed that way from the start as
said

>>MUD
>What?
boi

What about Luck?

Remove the auction house cancer.

Most MMO players aren't playing MMOs for the gameplay, community or even to have fun. They're trapped inside of a skinner box and their only objective is to get their numbers bigger.

Most of them would be better off playing something like cookie clicker but they've invested too much time and effort to just quit.