So, where is No Man's Wharf in all of this?

So, where is No Man's Wharf in all of this?

seeing as you have to take another elevator down to get there after dragon rider, its underwater obviously, duh

It's not underwater

>Kill boss above ground
>Take elevator below sea level
>Not underwater

Yeah right, where do you think the Deacons of the Deep came from, why do you think there's Flexile Sentry in 3

But it's not underwater

>all the blue
course its underwater dude

pullin your leg man, its just sired in the cliff face and the lift is a confusing design element like Mytha to IK

on the other side of that dam

Why is it not consistent?

There's a flexile sentry in 3?

>Ok so you took down dragon rider, raped Licia and prepare to leave Heide
>You go down a spiral staircase so you're at the bottom of the dragon rider tower
>Then you take a massive elevator down
>Down into the deep blue sea
>Kill a few bailisks, a mastadon, going down several floors in the process and eventually make it to No Man's Wharf.
>somehow you are above water again

>guiz look at me i'm talking shit about ds2

But I like it

kek, no dude was making a joke

yeah, fucking love this game, no one is shit talking it

Right in front you ya dingus, can you not see it?

>Cool ruins partly sunk into the ocean setting.
>The area is short as fuck.

time is convoluted

Probably in S-tier when it comes to Souls level design.

In a fucking cave behind the corner no doubt.

who give le fuck

Cmon now you niggers cant be this blind it's right there.

I've always imagined it was in that cliff outcropping and opens to The Lost Bastille on the other side.

That's Heide.

how autistic do you have to be to care about things like this? it has no effect on the gameplay or level design from a mechanics point of view

up ur ass lol

red circle on top is heide's tower
red circle on bottom is lost bastille

That area is soooooo beautiful.

This, its probably one of my favourite areas in the Souls. It was a joy to light all the torches and see it become comfy as hell.

hmm

...

>Something something time and space are convoluted so we dont have to worry about good level design

Space is convoluted

whats wrong with surrealism Sup Forums?

World building was so intensively bad in dark souls 2, a proof that people making this game didn't give a care when making it.

I think it was just incompetence really.

At least I think the lore and the general theme of DaS2 are better than DaS3. The Sunken King final part is also one of my favorite area in the three games.

Have you even played the game?

>

The general theme in 2 is the exact background of 3. So...you literally can't praise one and shit on the other.

No, 2 tried to differenciate itself from the first game, introduced notions like the Daughters of Dark, the Lord Souls reincarnating, the Scholar and the Crown that allowed you to retain your sanity despite the curse indefinitely.

I like DaS3, but it was a bit too much like "Here's stuff you liked in the first game", haven't played any of the DLC.

>cartographer literally says he can't make a map because the world doesn't make sense
>other characters say that space and time is convoluted in this land

Why do you act like this shit isn't explained in the game?
>b-but that's not fair because it's just a cheap explanation so they don't have to care about realistic world layout
So what then? You faggots pretend like they didn't even know about the world realistically not making sense when multiple character refers to it in the game.

Well it is partly sunk. If you go to the sunk part, you're now in the underwater area.

Nigga after the amazing geometry showed in dark souls 1 you don't give a single fuck about npc explanation when faced with such a lame ass world.

>Here's stuff you liked in the first game

you mean the actual fucking premise of DaS3, fighting all the cults that sprang up at the end of the age of fire after hollows like yourself in game 1 got fragments of souls and sometimes linked the flame? The boss fights are infallible, the areas are well fleshed out and look better than souls ever has, DaS2 has absolutely no qualities that DaS3 doesn't have and misses a lot.

came here to post this

>sweatshop tier level designer
>"Sakomoto-kun, your levels don't make any fucking sense..."
>"Just fucking give some NPC some bullshit explanation, I am not fixing that".

DS2 is basically USA made souls, it only lacks lootboxes.

Yeah? Let me tell you that Dark Souls 2 had to be entirely reworked, they only saved so much assets.
Dark Souls 1 on the other hand wasn't even finished and they just went along with it.
Dark Souls 3 suffers with this the least but it only exists because fans wanted it and reuses mostly scrapped Bloodborne assets.

Dark Souls was never meant to be a trilogy, even Dark Souls 2 was a different game that was later renamed to Dark Souls 2 by Namco to ride the wave of success of Dark Souls 1. Fuck everyone Dark Souls 2 is not perfect but in life you just have to enjoy things it's enjoyable game with great ideas that lack in proper execution.

I disagree, because the bits introduced we can see as "new concepts" in 2 just weren't good at all and didn't really merge well with what was already there.
For example, reincarnation of the souls. The whole point of your journey is grabbing souls and using them as fuel so the flame keep burning. Why would they be back inside bodies? It just defeats the whole purpose.
Another, the Crown magic to escape the curse and Aldia. While Aldia is an interesting character, again it misses the point of the first game: in the end only embers will remain. You can't escape the curse and that's why it makes it more heavy to fight it. So putting anyone beyond it's reach goes against the themes these games were going for.

I think 3 did the right thing, it grabbed the big themes and stretched to it's limits. We saw the first Linking and the Last.

>amazing geometry

>"how does this make sense??!!"
>"it's literally explained in the game"
>"I don't care, how does this make sense??!!"
you seriously don't get what's the problem with these posts/threads?

still, if you think DaS2's problem was that "it didn't made sense" you are a casual realism fag who just hated the game because it was too video gamey

the real problem with DaS2's level design is that branching paths level design is simply inferior to interconnected level design that DaS1 had, which provides a lot more engaging explorational gameplay.

>souls 2 has bad map design I don't care if there is an explanation
>souls 3 isn't rehashing since rehashing everything is the point

Wew lad.

Because it sound like it's just vague shit, rather than literally saying that the levels aren't going to be connected in any sort of logical fashion. Characters said vague bullshit all through DS 1, characters say other vague bullshit all through DS 2, so it's still surprising when it turns out stuff like that is literally true.

And yes, it IS just a cheap explanation. It is bad level design, and a huge let down after DS1 doing the opposite. The developers acknowledging their own laziness does not in any way make it less less lazy or retarded.

I liked the game, still, the world building is lame af.
The only location I liked is majula, when in dark souls 1 a heavy atmosphere emanate from almost every fucking centimeters of the game world.

It's true, the world make sense on a physical, 3d level, making every shortcut mind-blowing.

...What? Do you really not get what he was saying?

DaS3 takes place in the same area that 1 did, and as a result you're dealing with the shit that happened after the events of that game. DaS2 just has areas connect to eachother nonsensically and the "explanation" for it in-game is a lame copout.

seeIt's explained, yet you act like it isn't
>but it's just vague shit
They directly say it doesn't make sense, it's the most honest explanation ever.

Just the way you said it sounds hilariously autistic like fuckin' tile guy or something.

>it's the most honest explanation ever.
But it's not a good one. His entire point is that it's a lazy explanation from the devs instead of them creating a game world that makes logical sense.

DaS2 takes place in the same world 1 took place in, right? How come 1's area wasn't as retarded as the sequel's?

>if I call it "video gamey", that means it's alright that it's blatantly bad

Read the fucking post you're replying to you retarded nigger. The reason it's so game-breakingly disappointing is because the first game was so unique in how interconnected it made it's world. It provided a sense of exploration which is rare as shit in 3D
action games, which made it unique and interesting. Enjoying that doesn't make you people "casual realism fags" it makes them people that can enjoy unique game design.
It being """"explained""" doesn't make it less retarded at all. Are you even fucking reading the posts you reply to or do you just parrot the same shit endlessly.

Maybe cuz I'm French, burger never use this word or what?

>DUDE THE WORLD IS SUPPOSED TO BE RETARDED

No see, i love 2, favorite in the franchise, but it is flawed, and mytha to IK is a major fuck up, originally Earthen Peak was set just before the undead crypt, hence the Grave Wardens, and there was a giant tunnel leading down because Mytha had burrowed down into it.

Only changed due to time constraints/Bamco being shitty, essentially all the same reasons 1 is rushed as well

When you act like a stubborn prick you just make the game look worse then it is

It sounded perfectly normal m8 read a book.

You mean like dual-wield, branching paths, most weapons/armor, better estus, better DLC, better covenants, bonfire ascetics, and new enemies/loot on NG+ ?

>better estus
"No"

>It's normal to be so enthused and awestruck over shapes
Whatever you say fella

fucking kill yourself
I said that interconnected level design is superior to das2's branching level design

you aren't complaining about that, you are only complaining about muh realism

>It being """"explained""" doesn't make it less retarded at all.
it literally does you mentally challenged
that wasn't even my point tho, I complained about you faggots acting like it isn't even explained and ask shit like "how does this make sense??!!" all the time when it's right in the game

Yeah clearly he was being amazed over the literal polygonal faces and not using it to mean the world layout.

>play shitty Japanese knock off of an actual western rpg
>act surprised that it's garbage
This is almost as embarrassing as when people pretend dark souls has an actual story instead of lazily thrown together item descriptions. Almost as embarrassing

Didn't they hadnwave this away by saying "uh yeah whenever you transition to a new zone you're actually traveling far away and we just didn't show it"

>Dark Souls 2 was a different game that was later renamed to Dark Souls 2

source?

I was obviously referencing geography you dumdum. Do you think I was falling in love with the precision and shape of a bunch of triangles forming a polygon?
Alright, I'll never use the word geometry again in my entire life.

>originally Earthen Peak was set just before the undead crypt

this is all fan theories tho

a more popular idea was that there was supposed to be a mountain leading to IK that we've seen in the first trailer where the assasins attacked the cursed undead but it was cut out.

Still it's a small thing, people aren't even complaining about the level design gameplay-vise but just muh realism

>Look down from the dragon bridge in Dark Souls
>Can see my own bloodstain all the way down in the forest

>Look anywhere in DaS2
>??? DOESN'T HAVE TO MAKE SENSE TIME IS CONVULSIONED XD

you fags will never cease to amuse me.

I haven't played a lot of DS2 so excuse me if this is a stupid question: How do all these "convoluted spacetime" things work in the game? You can get to No Man's Wharf from Heide Tower without a loading screen or anything inbetween, so how come you can't see it?

>expecting basic logically connected areas is "muh realism"
Christ you're retarded, no wonder you eat this shit up.

>muh explanation
I explained exactly why it's not realized to be a literal explanation by the majority of people when they hear those lines, and why even when presented with this as an explanation most people will reject it. Read nigga.

>design world poorly
>make npc comment on the bad design
>it is now good design

They don't. It's literally an excuse built into a couple of lines of dialog to explain the layout not making any fucking sense because the game was made by hacks.

You are pretty dense aren't you? You think "lets rehash everything because its souls 3?" Isn't a lame copout?

Do you think not being able to jump through rubble to theend of the game or going from heide to moans warf is worae than having no original ideas? Having a shitty corridor with Anor londo in it is better than the branching paths of Souls 2?

Yes, you actually have to thinl about how you use it, instead of chugging it like a casual shitter whenever you want.

>it's not bad if we call ourself out
This shit continues even in level design where you can't go down a path because there is a ledge in your way

That's not my point. I wanna know how the areas are aligned in the game so they make no sense. Like, how can you have an area layout where you can reach the next area without loading screen but not have it visible anywhere in the old area? That's like not being able to look down into the Burg from the top of the belltower in DS1

>You think "lets rehash everything because its souls 3?" Isn't a lame copout?
That's not what I said at all, but your head must be so far up your own ass that you couldn't have noticed.

Dark Souls 3 rehashes a lot of areas from 1 because it's a direct sequel to 1. You're fixing the problems the climax of 1 started. That's not a copout of an explanation, that's the premise of the fucking game.

Yes and that is why I found the use of "amazing geometry" amusing. Because taken literally it's humorous and unexpected in the context of the discussion. Why are you getting so butthurt over this? I wasn't calling him autistic just that it sounded a bit autistic. I wouldn't even had noticed his post if he just said what he meant that the level design was logically consistent or that it made sense spatially. Geometry is more closely associated with the literal 3D mesh than it is to the design. That is why I posted a gif of Michael Jordan laughing. Chill out my dudes.

How are people still this retarded

Dark Souls 2's entire world building is designed to subvert expectations from 1. "If I can see it, I can go there!" well in 2, you don't know what the fucks coming.

It's literally built like a David Lynch film intentionally. Time is Actually convoluted. You can travel in one real time sitting without ever seeing a loading screen yet you're traversing manipulations of geometry that would be seemingly impossible.

The wrap around at the Castle ingenious for this. they literally make you go this way and then loop you around back the way you came yet now you're facing a castle.

The entire thing is intentional to fuck with you.

The Windmill > Volcano transition gave everyone a "what the fuuuuuck??" surprise reaction the first time. That was the point. If you could see it coming or could even comprehend getting there, it wouldn't be a surprise.

It's not like dark souls makes complete sense but in a way this is the surrealism people are talking about done good.

It's okay to admit you're new (or at least have never discussed Souls on Sup Forums before). People call the layout geometry all the fucking time
Lurk moar

The level design is DaS2 is just shit, at least in DaS1 there were real obstacles in your way, like a locked door and not a bunch of rocks or poop or statues.

The whole point of DaS2 is to fuck with players who enjoyed DaS1 is one of the reasons why it resulted in being inferior. Enemy/combat design is also suffering because of that

>lord souls reincarnate after the chosen undead EATS them

uh no. that's dumb and B-Team was dumb.

>expecting basic logically connected areas is "muh realism"
>muh logical and realistic das1 was totally not like this with it's zelda-dungeon-like level designs like the catacombs or sens fortress, it was a completely realistic euro-medieval game and that's why I liked it
choke on a dick

>dude, some elements of the world geography are inconsistent
>better make the same thread about it every weekend for 3 years

Which area is that?

Oh, on a technical level. You never have the entire gameworld loaded at once, only the area you're in and maybe connected areas, and the game streams in the information for new areas as you travel to them. When you see stuff that's far away, in say DS1, you're usually actually seeing distance models which are attached to the area you're in, not looking at the actual location as it would be if you traveled there. DS1 simply lays everything out so it makes sense, which is much harder way to do shit. The backgrounds to each area in DS2 are just whatever that may or may not depict other areas you can go to.

>fan theories
no?
check the original maps dude, it's pretty clearly evident.

never actually seen the trailers for any souls games after 1

>Dark Soul 3 rehashes
>"but that is the fucking point so its ok"

Lad, are you trying to ruse me?

He already said it's not realism he's after. You specifically quoted that part of his post, then once again cried about DS1 not being realistic either
You lose

>he doesnt know nordic and celtic mythology

dark souls followed its own established rules, dark souls 2 did not.

What are you even saying anymore? You are the only one bringing up realism. DS1 had a variety of interesting fantasy locations which it tied together in a neat, logical, and interesting to explore way. That is a large part of why people liked it. Where the fuck does realism come into this?

> in DaS1 there were real obstacles in your way, like a locked door and not a bunch of rocks or poop or statues.
is das1,2 was your first fucking video game?

I mean you already have to accept shittons of "video game logic" in DaS1 yet you can't accept shit like unrealistically blocked pathway in das2?

Ah I understand, and people complain about stuff like an elevator taking them up to a lava area, and from a technical standpoint the lava area is just floating in space and gets loaded once you get there?
Thanks for the explanation

>Caring about autistic shit like lore
>Caring about geography
>Muh world building
I bet you fags actually read item descriptions and shit, just play the damn game. Dark Souls 2 was a disappointment but I unironically and wholeheartedly had more fun times playing that game than the boring snore fest that was Bloodborne or the absolute abortion that was Dark Souls 3. Souls did nothing but get worse and worse the longer it went on and I'm glad it's dead, would have been better that it never existed truthfully.