When the game designers focus 100% on fun gameplay and nothing else...

When the game designers focus 100% on fun gameplay and nothing else, you get a completely sterile and forgettable experience.

Pic related.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=F9ZNhMq0B6s
youtube.com/watch?v=tqO884a0ByU
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

(you) (you) (you) (you) (you) (you) (you) (you)

fuck off sunshinefag

When game designers focus 100% on fun gameplay and nothing else, you get a fantastic and unforgettable experience

Pic related

Galaxy had story and overarching themes. 3D world didn't

But Galaxy had story that complimented and made the game feel like a big adventure. Peach being kidnapped is actually treated as some catastrophic event. Rosalina's storybook was great too.
youtube.com/watch?v=F9ZNhMq0B6s

Galaxy had a pretty art style and an amazing soundtrack too though.

I'd argue that the stories for both of these games were pretty lackluster, the real difference is atmosphere.

Nintendo stories have never been that deep, even the RPGs are pretty basic. But there's been a huge shift in atmosphere. Everything is really sterile and has that boring Fischer-Price look to it now, that's the real problem.

I think it's problem is it stuck to close to the chest. When Mario games get experimental is when they seem to be the most fun. It's cool to go back to the familiar vibes, but when they don't is when it sticks out the best.
>Yoshi's Island
>Sunshine
>Galaxy games
>soon to be Odyssey

>focus 100% on fun gameplay
>a downgrade to every 3D platformer before it
Whatever you say, OP.

>focus 100% on fun gameplay and nothing else
If they did 3D World wouldn't as forgettable as it is. The level design and movement options are 2 steps back compare to the previous titles.

>nintenqueers will say this game is hard

>waaaaah I can't immerse myself in this jumping game so its bad regardless of its excellent level design and gameplay
you're a gigantic faggot who should leave this board immediately

3D World is the peak of linear obstacle-course style design in a 3D platforming game

>Ladies and gentlemen, the current state of Sup Forums

Movie games ruined the industry

>fun gameplay
but where

>jumping isn't fun
why even play mario games

nigga fuck you 3D World is the best Mario game not named Super Mario 64 or Super Mario Bros 2.

>peak of linear obstacle-course style design
Galaxy and Crash are far superior.

it was boring and repetitive

it isn't fun, they took away everything that made 3d platformers work, and at that point why even play it when you could play a superior 2D mario

I think the problem with Mario 3D world is that it didn't have any more mechanical depth than a very default, minimal 3D platformer. I don't remember many moments where I was thinking about shit or trying to pull something off.

Mario is the one series that figured out jumping alone wouldn't do it, it needs to be coupled with complex physics. The lack of that and the mediocre isometric level design are why 3D Land and World suck.

>Galaxy
not even close, the game is supported more by its gimmicks than a core of focused platforming. you can't build up momentum because of how reliant the design is on the spin jump, and there's too much waiting in the game. seeing mario blast off dozens and dozens of times breaks up the pace way too much.
>Crash
you've got a better case for this one, and crash 2 is one of the better 3D platformers out there, but it's less intuitive than 3D World and doesn't really have any momentum to speak of.

>make the 2D series mediocre so your faux-3D platformer can shine in comparison
Brilliant.

>it isn't fun, they took away everything that made 3d platformers work
false, it just changed the design philosophy back to what it was in the 2D games
>at that point why even play it when you could play a superior 2D mario
why not play both?
>Mario is the one series that figured out jumping alone wouldn't do it, it needs to be coupled with complex physics.
all you need for a good jumping game is momentum and interesting level design, and 3D World has that. the 2D games are the same, and they're all highly regarded.

>superior 2d mario
you mean NSMB in which enemies literally pause for seconds at a time to BAH BAH at you?
or do you mean NSMB in which you can spend 3/4 of every level flying above the ceiling of the level because of how generous it is with helicopter hats?

...

Except the gameplay was shit too, pretty bad example OP

NSMB series has some challenging late game stages but the issue is that they reuse the same hazards in every game, which gets tired fast

3D World was the Mario Team phoning it in. We could've had an Odyssey-tier 3D Mario that saved the Wii U but instead they made a safe as fuck party platformer.

It was fun don't get me wrong, but it is necessary for a system-seller to be amazing. Galaxy comes to mind, for example.

It's funny to me that you think that.

because the design philosophy of 2D mario doesn't work in a 3D setting, especially when it has a shitty isometric camera. that's the whole reason the difference in gameplay and control decisions were made for 64

no I mostly mean every entry until NSMB 1

>false, it just changed the design philosophy back to what it was in the 2D games
...So it took everything that made 3D platformers work.

>all you need for a good jumping game is momentum and interesting level design
Also inertia, all things 3D World lacks.

>the 2D games are the same, and they're all highly regarded.
The 2D games are 2D. They also have much better physics than 3D World.

3D Mario isn't a gangbuster, it can't save a system, only give it pedigree.

The problem with 3D Land and World is that they were manufactured to pander to the New Super Mario Bros. crowd. For a good awhile, 2D Mario games drastically outsold the 3D ones, and I guess this made Nintendo mad, so they tried making 3D Mario more appealing to that audience by radically simplyifing it in terms of movement, level structure, story elements (I don't think there's a single line of dialogue in 3D Land/World, in comparison to 64/Sunshine/Galaxy), etc.

Odysessy feels like Nintendo raising the white flag, acknowledging that they'll never get 3D Mario to sell NSMB levels (not even the last few NSMB have sold those levels) and just making a game they envisioned that embraces the strenth of what 3D Mario is, rather than chasing someone else's dream.

This is the only Mario game I didn't like. It was like soulless; much more a collection of bonus levels than a game.

>no i mostly mean every entry until nsmb1
point taken

>because the design philosophy of 2D mario doesn't work in a 3D setting
the existence of 3D World proves you wrong, the game is designed to be a tight as fuck focused-platforming extravaganza and it works. the camera is always pointing where it needs to be, you have easy access free momentum to keep yourself moving, and the stages are clever and bite-sized like SMB3. it's a fantastic video game and the only reason it gets shit on is because people are so damn attached to the SM64 formula.

Coming off of 3D Land I was alright with it. Also, I'm always game for playable Peach.

Your movement options are incredibly weak though. Compared to Galaxy, 3D World is stiff and sterile and never tries anything new or interesting. The only time the level design gits gud is in the last section of the game, the secret worlds.

What a complete non argument. How do you even measure "soul" in a video game?

>hey this looks cool i guess
>buy wii u
>finish in a day
>well that was uh...
>return wii u

Nintendo is the worst

>it's great because it's an anti-thesis to 3D gameplay and momentum
???

I'd argue 3D Land had a much stronger identity.

>Also inertia, all things 3D World lacks.
nigger do you even know what inertia means?
>They also have much better physics than 3D World.
only thing that makes mario world's physics better than 3D world is the gradient on its run button, which is smooth instead of 2-stage. there is still a gradual increase in speed in 3D World, but having a huge jump in top speed is inconvenient and probably the only real mechanical flaw of the game.

I wonder how they were able to transplant Nu-Super Mario's brand of mediocrity into the 3D plane.

I'd love to see you argue that

it really says something about the quality of your games when another studio takes a character youve practically forgotten about and made a better 2d platformer than anything youve done in the last decade
DKC Returns and Tropical Freeze also rayman though hes not a nintendo boy

So far, every flagship Mario game's quality seems to be synonymous with the overall quality of that console. It could be a huge coincidence but I think 3D Mario is one of the biggest reasons for someone who doesn't automatically buy a Nintendo console to consider buying one. To dismiss this trend wouldn't make a ton of sense since Mario's the first thing people look at when considering a Nintendo console.

Eh, I just saw it as a set of bite sized 3D Mario levels. Good for a handheld Mario fix, I suppose.

The GameCube wasn't THAT bad user

>Your movement options are incredibly weak though. Compared to Galaxy, 3D World is stiff and sterile and never tries anything new or interesting.
the game isn't really about movement options, and even then the only technique that's lost from galaxy is the triple jump (which is a shame, but it's mostly useful to have a more consistent jump in a game where you'll be jumping far more) and the spin attack (which is awful and only hindered galaxy's design). on the other hand, it actually adds back in the propeller jump from sunshine and the suits add a lot of versatility to the moveset.

Eh, I think it even works for Gamecube. Sunshine was much prettier and had flashes of sheer brilliance but as a whole wasn't quite as inspired as its predecessor.

I disagree, I found the camera particularly bad for accurate platforming and the game just isn't very fun imo. the game would at least be improved if it had proper analog stick support

This a thousand times

>it's great because it's an anti-thesis to 3D gameplay and momentum
the antithisis of momentum? the game has momentum. are you retarded? also it's only a different kind of design philosophy.

The developers didn't focus 100% on fun gameplay, because these games were not fun.

not the user you replied to but 3d world has extremely weak momentum if you compare it to sunshine or galaxy 2

>Nu-Super Mario
Don't you mean New!-Super Mario?

>and the spin attack
Rosalina has it.

>arguing over kiddie games

You're adults now you'll never get those feels back. You're better off playing adult games like dark souls where you can still have a sense of wonder and accomplishment.

I enjoyed SM3D world. But thinking back on it I can't remember much of it because like others have said, it's sterile.

If you're bad at games, then games that do not have a storyline are garbage to you

You think you're baiting, but we actually are better off playing adult games like pic related.

It's another "retards who barely even know how the games they "enjoy" work argue about game design" episode.

Koizumi vs Miyamoto

It was based on the 3D gimmick for starters. It wasn't mostly wide as fuck level design on empty void backgrounds for the multiplayer meme. It didn't pretend to be a fully fledged 3D platformer at times and instead embraced what it set out to do.

Classic case of Nintendo thinking their franchises are godsend and stand on their own requiring minimal effort to develop.

You didn't play the game if you think it is sterile and forgettable
I bet you think the same about DKCTF

>sunshine
sure, though FLUDD is basically a momentum killer
>galaxy 2
lmao what. there's hardly any momentum in galaxy 2, and the spin attack is even worse than FLUDD at killing the pace.

if 3D World didn't have momentum then how would shit like this even be possible?
youtube.com/watch?v=tqO884a0ByU

>Sunshinefags trying to deflect off onto one of the better 3D Mario's

3D World is Koichi Hayashida's work primarily, he's the one who pioneered its design style

>Compared to Galaxy, 3D World is stiff and sterile and never tries anything new or interesting
Jesus you got so fucking blown the fuck out earlier today you needed to make a separate thread to cry about 3D World?

My fucking sides do. Genuinely pathetic.

I think 3D World's 8-direction movement as opposed to pure analog control is what brings it down.

I'm not baiting, my choice of game might not appeal to everyone but the sentiment is true. Adults play mario thinking it'll make them kids again and it never works

3D Mario should be about movement options and only World and land lack that. Your moves are vastly limited and useless, spin, long, triple, etc are all nerfed in range and speed. Watch any speedrun and the only way to increase your basic speed is to use the cat suit drop, which is the only thing you will be doing. Watch a Galaxy speedrun and Mario will be using all kinds of crazy tech because the level design complements it well

Galaxy is literally slower 3D World with waggle.

What the fuck are you talking about?

SeeYou're quite literally wrong. It has significantly better movement than Galaxy

>It's another galaxyfag giving unpopular opinions
1/10 made me reply

Not really, it's just another symptom of its aggressive streamlining. You'd still have garbage movement options, simple wide levels, "easy access free momentum" and so on.

True.

>06yssey
>experimental

bowser kidnap peach again
bing bing wahoo forest world desert world lava world ghost world etc...

yawn...

What do you think of the Wii?

>3D Mario should be about movement options
why? just because Mario 64 had great movement options? why can't great levels support a game?
>Watch a Galaxy speedrun and Mario will be using all kinds of crazy tech because the level design complements it well
Galaxy speedruns are slow and boring as fuck

...

>galaxyfag
>unpopular opinions
Are 3D World fans THIS delusional?

Mario 3D Land has the fucking excuse of being a handheld game, It promised to combine 2 and 3D marios in a single way, It was charming and it did what it promised but is weak, 3D World has no excuse to be what it is.

That 3D Land is even considered a 3D mario is even astonishing given he fact that it was "just" a handheld game

>Sup Forums thinks Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World are bad now
this place really does try hard to play the contrarian

Galaxy speedruns just look like a normal person playing the game. They're molasses slow.

>aggressive streamlining
you got it, that the point of the game. it is streamlined mechanically because it's focused on delivering tight level design above all else, and its mechanically suited for that. no other game in the 3D series is so focused.

Why not? They had only tried that formula once and wanted to expand on it with 3D World

Nah, it's a mix of the exploration of 64/Sunshine and a prediction of the "3D ____" entries' linearity, it just depends on the stage you're in at the time. It's a midpoint of sorts bolstered by a gravity gimmick, though I'll admit it's closer to the latter in general.

>increase your basic speed is to use the cat suit drop, which is the only thing you will be doing.

3D World hate literally boils down to "Reeee it's not 64-like"

Every.
Single.
Time.

Now that Odyssey is coming out flagrant overblown hatred of 3D World is relic. It's at least better than Sunshine and Galaxy 1.

But 3D World isn't fun at all. And Odyssey looks like it'll be even worse. Why can't they just make another masterpiece like Sunshine again?

3DWorld is objectively better than Sunshine.
Galaxy is better than both.

Yes is gret that they were trying to replicate what they did on 3D land but they did id with both upsides and downsides that's why it hasn't no excuse

even without it you're still way faster in general and have more movement options, plus no spin-jump crutch for the level design to be built around

No they didnt
They focused on a family friendly coop game.

"Flagrant overblown hatred of 3D World" has always been around, it's just that discussion has been reignited considering a new 3D Mario launches in 2 weeks.