Established franchise with millions of fans

>established franchise with millions of fans
>117,871 owners on steam
>cheaper than cuphead
>a fifth of cuphead's steam sales
Why did it flop?

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But it was a massive success. And everyone bought it on consoles.

Do you realize how small the development team for this game was? It sold well on consoles people were just asshurt over Denuvo on the PC version.

>But it was a massive success.
Based on what? No official figures have been released so it probably didn't even reach 1 million. It is definitely a flop.

so fucking delusional

>But it was a massive success
Then why haven't they released any sales figures?

Sure thing bud, PC was easily the lowest selling platform because of the delay and Denuvo.

>there exists no evidence to support either of our views
>therefor I'm correct
But this is clearly shitposting. Why does the game price matter? Games all have different values. And steam sales are a poor indicator of success when cuphead is largely a steam game and sonic came out on consoles first, and was quickly cracked when it released on pc.

I have a question, why do you care? Both games got great reviews, and mania made many fans happier than sonic team ever has. What's wrong with Sonic Mania in your eyes? I find it hard to believe you actually want to have this discussion when you entered it so clearly biased. What's your beef user?

cuphead got a lot of sales on steam because you can't get it on ps4
sonic mania was split between switch/ps4/pc

Why are you so angry dude?

>2 week delay on PC to add Denuvo
>Which got cracked in a couple of days
>Most PC gamers have a Console & just got it on there instead of waiting

I wonder why

Because it's an antagonistic thread that serves no purpose. This attitude is bad for all of us and not conducive to actual discussion.

That's pretty damn good for a Sonic game that got a two-week head start on other consoles.

>implying the Steam sales matter in any way

You're on the wrong website, retard. Kill yourself.

Cuphead was only on Xbone and PC, while Sonic Mania was released pretty much everything. It makes sense that Cuphead's PC sales would be better; I seriously doubt that most Xbone owners are interested in games like Cuphead.

>Delayed from console release
>Given fucking DRM which was the only real addition
>Apology bonus was Sonic 1 that a literal potato calculator can emulate.
>Sonic stigma while sheep and actual children never heard of the dozens of good run and gun games already on Steam

Wow, so unexpected.

Because it's a digital only game

>denuvo
>coming out two weeks after launch on consoles
>mainly sold on consoles regardless

Sure thing tough guy

sonic was never good

>Released on steam 2 weeks later than consoles
>DRM controversy made it the worst version initially
>Sonicfags traditionally buy more Sonic games on console if available, especially if its a nintendo console

It's not hard logic.

cuhead had at most 20 people working on it.

>hurr we should only call eachother retards on Sup Forums
fuck off

express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/843992/Sonic-Mania-Nintendo-Switch-PS4-Xbox-One

>However, Sega told GI.Biz that if the charts did encompass digital sales then it would have been number one by “quite some margin”.

it flopped on PC because of denuvo and the two week delay
on consoles it was a big hit

Just make a mania thread. You don't have to pretend to be retarded to make it successful.

>You have to unlock the insta-shield
>You can only use it on a no-save playthrough

What the fuck?

>wanting to use insta-shield
LOL

they nerfed it too

How the fuck would Sega know? The UK charts don't list units sold. So I'm inclined not to believe someone who's talking out of their ass.

Oh so you would know more than the publisher then?

No but I didn't go on the internet and fucking lie. Not today at least.

But why wouldn't Sega know the digital sales count? Or are you saying they are the ones that are lying

I'm not disputing they know how much their games sold, but to say they'd be at the top of the chart by a large margin is saying they know what their competitors sold which they don't.

OP, why does it annoy you so much that Sonic Mania is a success? Do you enjoy deluding yourself?

I was surprised at first but the game doesn't take into account the insta-shield at all, there is like one orbinaut-like enemy and the drop dash is just more useful all around.

>Why did it flop?
Who said it flopped? Cuphead is only available on Steam and Xbox One, whereas Sonic Mania players had two more options (Switch and Ps4).

Sonic 3 Complete > Sonic Mania

Ah okay, I understand you now.

Not as much marketing.

Sonic was never good.
Which is why it sold poorly.
Sonic Forces will though as it is less shit than Mania

I have no idea why the Super Form Transformation was a fucking afterthought for the Mania team.

>It didn't get GTA numbers so that means its a flop!
Considering its $20 and made with a 15 man team, it probably didn't cost all that much to make.

Mania is so pretty tho :3

I hope they were just overwhelmed by making their first real game, and if there's a sequel it will be more polished.

Honestly this.

Personally I wouldn't even of gave the game a chance seeing how most of the advertising was focused on nostalgia pandering.

I only bought it on a whim because my gaming group wouldn't shut the fuck up about it and nothing else looked interesting at the time.

Honestly I enjoyed it, but Sega should've marketed this better instead of presenting it as an optional prequel to Deviantart Forces.

3&K was consistently among my favourite games for years.
Compared to Mania, it has the better story and ending climax, but Mania is the better game.

>mania is the better game
How? Not saying that Mania isn't a damn fine game but it's not as consistent or has as much content as S3&K.

>Mania is the better game.

How so?

It didn't.

Out of meme potential

insta-shield is pleb filter

Not him, but in my opinion it's like comparing DKC 1 vs DKC 2. They're both great and while one could be higher than the other, it's almost not worth comparing.

It came out in much more platforms than cuphead I'm sure about that.

A flop is if they don't break even, you are telling me that 2 million dollars wont break even for this game?

>not consistent
Debatable. Mania hops through different zones without much continuity, but the levels itself are fine. I'll give you the story is inconsistent.
>less content
This is wrong. The number of zones is the same since hidden palace and sky sanctuary are the same, and quite short too.
All the Mania levels are also bigger compared to their original counterparts, this is a fact evidenced by the level maps.
Perhaps did you mean original content?

Pirated it because it denuvo

Widescreen + drop dash. Mania's more like best of then it's own standalone game though. 3&K has a better narrative and all original levels. The way that only some zones in Mania have transitions makes it feel a bit rushed. In terms of gameplay though Mania's better

I really didn't like the way Mania reused so many levels. It wouldn't have been bad once or twice to show the time fuckery, but damn.

At least a million is surely a lock for Mania at this point. Why Sega doesn't want to reveal the numbers specifically is anyone's guess, but I'd guess it has to do with Forces.

They originally wanted to do all original levels (Studiopolis was used to pitch the game) but Iizuka wanted it to be like Generations for the 25th anniversary. It doesn't really have the same effect when you did the same thing five years ago and just comes off a lazy. They did their best to at least add variety to the reused levels.

same

>Sega meddling makes things worse

Not big surprise.

I like them both. 3 Complete just barely wins for the fact it feels like one big adventure while in Mania you can tell the zones were swapped around at points and that's why some lack transitions.

I actually heard the exact opposite

It started off as a 3&K port and Iizuka demanded new levels as well

>You don't have to pretend to be retarded to make it successful.
we all know that's not true at this point well over a month after the release

according the Whitehead the 3&K port hasn't been worked on since the proof of concept in 2014 while Mania started a year later.

>game released on 4 platforms
>PC version delayed further increasing sales of other platforms
vs
>game released on Xbone or PC
Wow, I wonder why Cuphead outsold Mania on PC.

Cuphead is replacing Witcher as the most annoying fans

The game isn't even presented as a prequel. The story itself is, sorta, but nothing in the advertising tried to even hint at its tie-in nature to Forces.

>levels are fine
I'd say this is even debatable. Hydrocity is pretty bad with act 1 being slow as shit unless you know the level well and act 2 being mostly a rehash. Mirage Saloon act 1 with sonic and tails is just as good as sky chase. Titanic monarch and chemical plant act 2 are fairly linear. This one is personal opinion but I don't like metallic madness act one at all, I feel like they didn't go anywhere with the level gimmick.
I can only say arguments for bad levels are valid towards sandopolis and marble garden. Carnival night's fine, except for the barrel, which is a pretty big oversight.

The games bosses in general weren't that amazing, with some of them feeling like time wasters on repeat playthroughs (Chemical plant act 2, studiopolis act 1, Flying battery act 2) and some of them at Palmtree panic level of easy (Oil Ocean). Final boss was pretty meh too. Though looking back on it, S3&K didn't have an amazing boss list either.

The game also has a bunch of tiny things that as a whole sour the experience. Large amounts of rings, can't turn super off, no multiple bonus stages, you don't have a real reason to visit the bonus stages once you get the medallions.

Again, the game's still great, but I wouldn't call it better than S3&K
>less content
You're right, my mistake. I don't mind most of the rehash stuff personally because I haven't played the game religiously like some people so I'm not tired of all of the sections that were borrowed. Hoping taxman comes back with a 10/10 sonic game

I bought it on PS4 so I wouldn't have to wait
Otherwise it would have been a PC buy

the time attack leaderboards working yet?

I feel like sonics popularity and influence has just been gone since 2010 started. I can see the series just releasing 3-4 more junk games like Forces within 10 years and then just dying off with no fanfare. Sonic will never have that peak popularity of 2000-2008 again. Im not a big fan of Sonic so its not a big deal for me, but it still is sad to see a major gaming icon just silently fade into the background.

Because Sonic is garbage.

Not at all what happened. They pitched Studiopolis as a single new level and Iizuka told them it was good and to make more new levels.

I thought that was the case

So Mania DID start off as a pure port of sorts, didn't it?

Cuphead is meme status, streamers are selling the game in a similar way to how Dark Souls sold really well on Steam, also Mania release on consoles first and Mania released with Denuvo.

From what I've seen, most people bought it on either on Switch (for portability) or PS4. Steam came out way late and had DRM.

It was never just a 3&K port. It was going to just be like Generations. Iizuka pushed them to add more original content.