All this manufactured outrage over loot boxes

What, did Sup Forums never get into trading cards as kids?

How are loot boxes any different?

because the things in loot boxes dont actually exist
cards do, and you can resell them for a fuck load in about a decade or so

>trading cards
>trading

They are not tradeable and they are not cards.

But they do exist, they exist digitally.

You can't trade things, but that's cause there's no system in place for that. But I'm sure people would find ways to exploit it if you did.

Lol, you can't trade away most cards either. A bunch of commons aren't even worth the paper they're printed on most of the time.

Yes, but by your definition, trading cards are gambling too, and should be outlawed. It's the same exact system in place, and both "trigger the exact same psychological responses."

>op trying to act smart by regurgitating the ESRB's opinion

Well if that was the ESRB conclusion, why the fuck are you still throwing a fit over it?Fuck off back to Reddddit with your bullshit you virtue signalling cucks.

Those are some fine ass buzzwords buddy

Not an argument.

Please more buzzwords I'm making an album

Still not an argument.

Thread derailing.

trading card booster packs are gambling.

I got your 5 right here and I'll turn it into a 2

I don't remember Yugioh charging me 80 dollars up front just to be allowed to buy packs.

Trading cards are stuff that should be available in game in the first place, and you can't trade it

Cant trade lootboxes.


Not the same. Dont try to change this.

You're talking about the point of a TCG (even though cards have always been available outside of boosters) vs developers deceptively twisting the player's arm into spending money on top of the $60 they charged you for and the $20 season pass they also want you to buy, by making things a boring grind, knowing full well that it's not enjoyable or intentionally creating a scenario that gives people penis envy over other player's equipment.

The next step is to sell the game box for $60 with 1 in 100 actually containing the game or making you buy randomly generated codes that may or may not contain the game.

What I want to know is where has this sudden outburst come from? Did a Youtuber remind everyone that a practise in the video game industry is bad again?

The new Middle Earth game forces you to choose between literally a weeks worth of grind or buying lootboxes to finish the game.

I could've sworn lootboxes were announced for the game prior to its release?

Obiously the extent of the Jewing wasn't advertised pre-release.

so?

>lootbox gets announced prior to release
>game comes out
>people buy game knowing there's gonna be some shady shit where the devs try and jew money unless those people are literal retards
>people get angry at the lootboxes for trying to jew them
The simple solution is don't buy the game. Shadows Of Mordor was mediocre anyway.

>Players complain about nothing to do after story in the first game
>Devs add a bunch of stuff to do after story for a bonus ending
>WHAAAA GRIND WHY DO I GOTTA PLAY GAME
>Add boxes to help the lazy fucks
>WHAAAAAA JEWJEWJEWBOXES
No winning with you faggots.

BECAUSE THE STARTER PACK DIDN'T COST 60 BUCKS AND CARD GAMES ARE DESIGNED FOR MULTIPLAYER.

The issue at hand is power play in multiplayer, not cards and strategies.

Trading cards were terrible too. I was just too stupid to realize how much money I was wasting as a wee lad.

SSSSH DONT LET THE GOYIM KNOW HE CAN'T TRADE WITH HIMSELF

>>people buy game
No, you don't have to have bought the game to want to stop it becoming common to have single player loot boxes.

>Can't even finish the game without grind or paying extra

Cards are exclusively PVP and all TCG are pay to win.
Who said it's ok? It's fucking awful, the amount of money some people spend to get a better deck in some games is fucking crazy.

This is a red herring. How does the fact that trading cards can be traded make it not a gamble to buy a pack of cards?

Vote with your wallet and don't buy shit games. Problem solved.

That's what they said about Horse Armor.

Now look at us.

No one is batting on hearthstone so it must be okay.

That's what's happening, doofus.

Why do I give a fuck about trading cards? Are trading cards bought after you have already paid for a fully priced item? Non-cosmetic loot boxes in fully priced titles are fucking terrible and inherently make a game worse by design. If you actually defend those then you're defending publishers making your games of even lower quality for some extra side cash

How does the price affect whether or not buying loot crates/trading cards is gambling?

>CARD GAMES ARE DESIGNED FOR MULTIPLAYER
So is poker

>Non cosmetic

You don't need this disclaimer, cosmetic loot boxes and DLC are AIDS too.

>lubok good for game

>How are loot boxes any different?
They aren't. Doesn't make TCG's ad their power creep any less cancerous, however.

>get trading card pack that doesn't have what you want
>trade what you got with someone else to get what you want instead

>get loot crate that doesn't have what you want
>you just wasted $5

Loot boxes in full priced single player games is the problem.

I don't buy shit games or loot boxes and there are not more than ever. Your 'suggestion' is useless and you know it. You just say it in some vain attempt to placate people who have issues with the concept so they'll stop pushing against it and things will continue smoothly down this natural course we've been on since horse armor

>Now look at us
Speak for yourself. I'm not the one playing games with lootboxes.

there was an attempt. 5

Yeah let the people who don't mind spending 1,000$ on loot boxes, that'll teach those greedy dev's.

I mean the state of the industrty

See, I understand that analogy, but it's flawed. In a card game, there is no big starting price. You just buy a pack of cards and get going. For AAA games, you have to pay an admission fee of $60, and then have to pay additionally on top of that to get loot boxes at a decent rate, or you run the risk of being undergeared, which directly impacts the gameplay of a game you already paid full price for.

Now, if AAA devs started charging less up front ($30), I'd be more accepting of loot boxes as they are, but they're charging full price while still engaging in F2P practices that fundamentally lock content or skew gameplay in favor of those who invest even more money than the price of admission.

There's no changing their minds. I have friends who play Fifa and they know full well that EA are greedy bastards but they buy into the game anyway.

I accept the concept only for multiplayer games and only if they provide just cosmetics and all other updates to the game are free. It keeps the community from getting splintered and a developer can justify continued work on a game well after it's prime selling point. However publisher clearly can't be trusted to hold that line and fuck anyone that crosses it.

Loot boxes in anything but that and free2play games can fuck right off and anyone that supports that shit needs to get the fuck out.

>But they do exist, they exist digitally.
They have no actual use or worth in the real world.
Youre better off doing some actual gambling than buying randomly earned textures/3d models

And take the rest of us down with them.

Shit games have shit practises. Fine by me just as long as good games don't start adopting them in a way that's not totally ignorable.

There does though, because the seconds you say "all loot boxes" you get the corporate apologists saying "LOL DUDE JUST DON'T BUY LOOT BOXES, NOT LIKE IT CHANGES THE GAME AT ALL XD". And while loot boxes in general are trash, this move toward what amounts to a real cash slot machine for in-game items that offer power and abilities that are arbitrarily sectioned off from the FULL PRICED GAME you already paid for is consumer butt-fuckery at it's worst.

If I had to choose one or the other, I'd give cosmetic loot boxes a pass before I'd let any developer include loot boxes with legitimate game items in them.

>The goyim are actually defending it

So, using your logic, it's only gambling if you get something you don't like? The fact that you can trade the prizes literally has no affect on whether or not something is considered gambling. You can't go to court and argue that lootcrates are gambling but TCG packs aren't.

I never could get into the whole "buying up packs of trading cards to get Rares" thing as a kid. Guess being poor had its advantages sometimes.

>as good games don't start adopting them in a way that's not totally ignorable.
But they have. That's the problem

You're right. Boycott the publisher/developer, don't buy the game, complain until they change it, and convince others to do the same.

Name one good pay-to-play game with loot crates.

Name five.

Name fifty.

Any game with DLC?

Why would I do that?
That system is what's hurting games. Or rather, hurting customers.

>all DLC = shitty practises
Nice meme.

Is Fire Emblem Heroes gambling too?

>He literally can't name one good base game that has a loot crate system
Crisis averted.

>Nickel and dimeing you for things that could have been in the game from the beginning or added later for free, or in a much more substantial expansion pack
It's become so ubiquitous that you've accepted it as normal.

I'm fine with loot boxes. I don't think they need to be banned. They should be reigned in to some extent though. There should be a disclaimer that pops up before you buy them that acknowledges that you're about to be gambling real money. They should also be required to disclose drop rates.

Shithead devs would be less likely to railroad you into the casino in order to progress if they were forced to acknowledge that's what they're doing.

Trading cards can be resold, end of argument.

There will never be a post that actually states what loot boxes do that is so great for everyone other than gamblers who are being exploited. They can make comparisons all they want, they cannot say exactly what makes loot boxes a good idea outside of milking addictive personalities.

Cards are physical property that you can do as you please with. When you purchase them they are yours. You can get information as to what the probability of getting a rare card is, you can even get a fine scale and weigh packs to determine if certain types of cards are in them as in the case with MTG foils.

Digital items are the property of the publisher and you sign an agreement that says as much and in almost all cases forbids you from doing anything with them. At any time the publisher can alter the items, remove the items, ban you and remove your access, close down the game and the items will be lost forever. They can alter the terms of the agreement and make you sign it again to gain access into the game again.

Loot boxes are far worse as they represent a gamble where you only receive a consolation prize and nothing more. They control the RNG and keep it as a closely guarded secret. It's like putting real money into a slot machine and only getting tokens in return for worthless trinkets you're not allowed to take out of the casino and that can be forcibly removed at any time. It's like the casino having the right to also say that that particular game has ended so all the tokens and trinkets no longer exist.

It's worse than gambling, you never actually own the items. The publishers are relying exclusively on there being no clearly defined laws as to consumer rights for digital content in games and definitions that do not fit their adaptation of gambling. They rely on users having to sign a contract in order to access the content and the vast majority of individuals being powerless to actually do anything about it.

The ESRB is a publisher funded institution and will parrot opinions that the publishers want. The laws likely will not change in the short term as with any industry making large sums of money they enjoy a privileged status at the expense of consumers.

It's not stopping until someone changes the laws and definitions.

Killing Floor 2, I guess?
The fact that they decided to sell out halfway through early access still pisses me off

>devs potentially work months on something after launch to add the game
>"it should be free"
Free would be nice, but paying for a product that people have worked hard on is fair. Also, expansion pass is just another term for DLC.

They can, at best,make and argument for loot boxes not being as bad as people claim. There is no possible argument for them being good, or even better than just straight up buying the object you want.

I'm guessing the militant loot box defenders have probably bought loot boxes and enjoyed the experience and don't want to acknowledge they've been exploited.

Either that or they're upset that muh SJWs TB and Jim Sterling are the ones heading the anti-lootbox crusade and this triggers the Sup Forumsack.

But in the east they can't hide the RNG. How can the west be so stupid to fall for it then? They'll be in deep shit if it's bad.

Card games are cancer too

Honestly shit like MTG, Yugioh, and Hearthstone should be regulated too.

g2a sell you random games loot crates.

>expansion pass
Expansion PACK.
As in an extra full campaign actually worth buying, and not just a new map or level with a couple aesthetic pieces.

I'd bet (haw) a decent amount of them make good money off of loot boxes and want the status quo to continue so they can continue making easy dosh

>esrb's opinion
Retard the ESRB only said "We don't have the authority to declare this as gambling that's a lawmaker's job."

If the things in a loot box have no value, doesn't that technically fall under scam laws?

That's not at all what they said.
>“ESRB does not consider loot boxes to be gambling. While there’s an element of chance in these mechanics, the player is always guaranteed to receive in-game content (even if the player unfortunately receives something they don’t want). We think of it as a similar principle to collectible card games: Sometimes you’ll open a pack and get a brand new holographic card you’ve had your eye on for a while. But other times you’ll end up with a pack of cards you already have.”

If there is a specific card you need, you can usually just buy it standalone.

Most games have a lootbox system where you MUST get it completely at random from the box, with no other means of obtaining it, or they have a currency system to buy certain things, but you can only obtain the currency by opening loot boxes.

Sorry, I meant pack.
Also, no matter how you cut it it's still additional content that's released after the game is released that costs money. It's literally just good DLC.

The problem is that modern DLC is overpriced for such small content.
That's why people where so upset by Horse armor in the first place.

>If there is a specific card you need, you can usually just buy it standalone.
Yeah from somebody else who bought it out of the pack. Just fucking face it, there is no way you can argue one is gambling and the other is not. They both have all the legal elements of gambling, uncertain outcomes, prizes, and risk. Sup Forums just cannot cope with the cognitive dissonance.

>The Witcher 3's expansions
>Bloodborne Old Hunters
>Not A Hero
Bad DLC is bad. Good DLC is good.

There is far more money to be made here, far less savvy consumers, and far more corruption when it comes to changing applicable law. Money talks when it comes to what's right and wrong. The only money western gamer's seem to have is money to spend on stupid trinkets.

Season 0 is best season

I'm not arguing against bad DLC. I'm just pointing out the practice took over and now everyone dips their fingers into the honey pot.

Bottom line: Lootboxes in a single player game are outright inexcusable.

And I'm saying that may be the case, but all you can really do is not buy the game or the lootboxes.

And in the meantime, I'm going to try to dissuade others into supporting it.

this desu

Booster Packs are cancer too.
I purchased all my cards online as soon as I reached high school.