Why does every 2D fighting game have the same stiff movement mechanics...

Why does every 2D fighting game have the same stiff movement mechanics? Why do they all have near identical 'combo' systems? Why do they all, at a glance, look like the exact same game? I don't think I can think of a genre were literally near every entry is a near carbon copy of each other mechanically

How come there aren't any fighting games where both players have full control over their characters? And movement is super fluid? Imaging a game where characters control like the Mega Man Zero games; dashing, free form aerial movement, wall jumping etc. That seems like it would be a natural evolution of the genre to me. Or at least a couple of games that play like that. But as of now everything really does look like it was built out on top of street fighter 2. Everything. Is it really that deep and that complex and that interesting that it's impossible to do any better?

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They don't. You just don't hear about other kinds because autists only buy the mainstream garbage.

Something something shitpost blanket statement etc

Could you recommend me some that aren't like that?

>anime fighters
>still movement mechanics

??? dumbass

Goddamn you're ignorant about this stuff. If you ever properly learned and played fighting games you would have the answers to your questions.
They're not stiff (except for NRS games), they're not all the same, and they sure as hell don't all look the same.

Sounds like you want Super Smash Bros. Melee.

Movement is much more free-form and includes platforms. You still have just as much control over your character, though.

Combos are more improvisatory because characters have to be juggled differently depending on their percentage, and players can DI to affect their trajectory.

>every thread

Hi, I'm a non-fighting game player! Let me tell you dedicated fans how your games should change according to my whims.

>Why do they all, at a glance, look like the exact same game?
Because a majority of fighting games have the same setup and objective involved with winning. If you only look at stuff at a glance, you find it hard to separate games within genres from each other because you overlook their intricacies.

not him but
>melty blood
>toukidenshou angel eyes
>blazblue
>guilty gear
>kof
>darkstalkers
you gotta be shitting me
this was a request thread

Hi, I'm a non-game developer! Let me tell you actual developers how your games should change according to my whims.

Why do people who have no experience with this genre need to make threads and spew their uninformed opinions. Go start up GG or BB or UNIEL and so go to training and move around with different characters then KYS.

>players aren't allowed to criticize games

Player's sense of balance is usually
>make the thing I like better
>make things that I don't like worse

you can do so just fine, but we can criticize your brazen stupidity just the same

this

Fighting game fans are generally stupid as fuck so it's a good idea to not listen to them

Because you're looking at them at a very superficial level. The same happens if you look at a literary genre, you'll find similar tropes and themes in most works of the same genre but they tend to have different execution. Same with a fighting game if you actually bother learning how to play them.
Play Street fighter and then KoF or Darkstalkers, on a surface level they look like they play the same but even movement is handled very differently and playing those games like SF will get you killed quickly.

>How come there aren't any fighting games where both players have full control over their characters? And movement is super fluid? Imaging a game where characters control like the Mega Man Zero games; dashing, free form aerial movement, wall jumping etc.

Those are called anime fighters and there's like a million of them.

So far I see the opposite. Well informed posts from those who play FGs and stupid posts from op and such.

The problem with that sentiment is that people like OP don't play fighting games. The blatantly ignorant post we get all the time prove that the person didn't spend more than 5 minutes with any given game cause, as people have already pointed out, most anime fighters have these movement mechanics available.

>Why do they all, at a glance, look like the exact same game?
Stopped reading here, you're fucking retarded holy shit

The HD REMIX and ultra versions of sf2 are absolutely horrid looking failures. What is the fucking point. The jarring animation coupled with remastered crisp sprites creates such a mess. What the fuck was the deal with that. Fuck me, what a horrible looking piece of shit

Capcom thought the original team was too expensive and fired them to hire a shitty team which did a horrible job so they had to fire those too and settle with UDON shit.

Great list, too bad barely anyone plays them, I fucking hate the FGC and everyone who made street trash the flagship franchise.

Static screens didn't even look that bad, it wasn't until seeing it in motion and realising that the fucking rate of animation was the same as the original from the fucking 90s that you realised... My god. Fucking hell

Anime fighters still have stiff movement. They just have a stiff air dash as well

You can find people playing BB, GG and KoF without too much effort though. I play GG and KoF every weekend online.

It's hilarious how you can just read someone's post and immediately tell they play Smash.

Fighting games are dead since online play doesn't work in any game that has hitstun.

Are there any popular, competitive fighting games that are radically different than what most people view as fighting games? Besides Smash

Because you need commitment in your actions in a competitive game. MMZ is singlaplayer, so there's no issue with having a mobility system that allows you to cancel any movement, this just doesn't work in a competitive game since the player can just cancel everything and it would make even Marvel games blush in terms of how broken it is.
Also, the air dashes in MMX were """""stiff"""" too. As I said, the guy asking for a fighting game without "stiff" movement doesn't really know shit about why fighting games work this way.

Gundam VS but those are only popular in Japan.

Then why -do- they work that way? I don't understand why you can't have competition and also fluid movement

I'd say Tekken considering it's the only 3-D fighter on the market since no one pays any mind to DoA5. Outside of that, not really, unless you consider For Honor or something like Arms fighting games. They count, but they're far from what most people think of.

Pretty much

legit autism

That's just arcsys, melty blood air movement for example is much less stiff. But then it has it's own problems, my issue with fighting games in general, if you combined a lot of them you'd get something great but every one I play feels flawed to some extent.

Funny enough, 2D fighters these days stray pretty far from SF2. I'd like to see more games like ST. I'm pretty hype for Arika Fighter EX.

but I've played gg and bb and they feel pretty darn similar. Same stiff movement, same stiff jumping. You have charge cgaracters, you have grapplers that all have the same inputs that other charge characters and other grapplers have in other fighting games

sure it has its nuances but on the whole it's pretty similar to every other fighting game. I think what op means is more like why isn't there stuff like gundam vs or smash or things that operate on a completely different structure

What do you even mean by "stiff"? In GG you can cancel both your runs and your airdashes by using barrier to stop your shorten either movement. With meter you can even roman cancel movements and attacks while, in certain situations keeping that momentum. You can dash at different points in your jump to come in at different heights to maximize the effectiveness of certain air to grounds. You can instant airdash to to move immediately from the ground to the air. And this is just one games specific movement options.

NUNS and Xenoverse sell pretty well.

he basically described marvel 3
this bait is dumb

go tell the 'fgc' that those are fighting games and see what happens

>Street Fighter 2 has the same combo system as Killer Instinct
Your eyes are fucked desu

You already have fluid movement. Try watching high level matches and see how crazy movement can become.
If all your mobility options are cancellable at all times then there's no reason not to play in the safest way possible and every single attack would be extremely easy to dodge or the first one to touch the opponent would gain an extremly huge advantage since he would be rewarded with an endless list of options after during wake up(you would need to rework entirely how wake up or even stunning your opponent works). Try watching Marvel VS Capcom 2 on high levels of play and how impossible to react the offensive can become, now imagine it on crack to get an idea why a movement system without commitment is bs.

It doesn't matter. It's what the OP is requesting, not the FGC.

>western fighting games

lol, no one counts that garbage

The problem with them as fighting games isn't that they're different, it's that they're broken. Xenoverse is just zwee-mash-zwee-mash-zwee repeat until the unlucky one dies. Or you use create a character and make one with some broken combination of ultimates.

>I think what op means is more like why isn't there stuff like gundam vs or smash or things that operate on a completely different structure
See
You need to recreate the entire system from the ground up if you wanna make games with movement that works totally different to a 2d fighter. And the result are games like Gundam VS and Smash which a lot of people don't consider fighting games and work really differently.

you can still have commitment in the form of attacks that are separate from movement options. You could also place a larger emphasis on stage control and build character movesets around it. There's tons of ways to adjust a design philosophy around those sorts of mechanics

Meant to post
* See

>You need to recreate the entire system from the ground up if you wanna make games with movement that works totally different to a 2d fighter. And the result are games like Gundam VS and Smash which a lot of people don't consider fighting games

And here we have the root of the problem

fucking this, an it's not limited to game. every entertainment medium has these bozos in it

>every fighting game is an sf2 clone! t. smasher

I wish we saw more sf2 clones, as an ST fan. They play nothing alike.

be the change, user.

If attacks have commitment but movement doesn't then the first one to attack is at a disadvantage. And again, you need to rework entirely how the entire game works like with Smash and Gundam vs so it's not a matter of just "making movement less stiff". And then you have that this is just theory, from what I see a movement system like this would be incredibly broken and the proposed solutions are very idea-guy tier so far.

yeah that really stopped smash from becoming popular. super huge problem boys.

>And again, you need to rework entirely how the entire game works

that's the whole point

Forgot to add. Believe me, day dreaming about this type of mechanics is easy as fuck, actually creating a game that works isn't. One of the reasons why fighting games still have so much SF2 DNA in them is because that game was extremely well designed for it's time even if it's broken as fuck for today's standards.

that fighting is clone for sfclone?

You don't think there are already characters in fighting games that control the stage and limit the opponents movement options? Do you even play fighters?

It isn't. The proposal is "make a fighting game that moves like MMZ" and I already gave countless of reasons why this doesn't work, you would need to address all the possible problems this present first because as I said in the post above, day dreaming is the easy part, actually getting it to work is where this idea is going to most likely fail in a couple of steps.

>You don't think there are already characters in fighting games that control the stage and limit the opponents movement options? Do you even play fighters?

What? When did I say that? What does that have anything to do with what I was talking about?

>You could also place a larger emphasis on stage control and build character movesets around it.

FIGHTING GAMES HAVE DA SAME MOVEMENT!!!

ST:

>fast walkspeeds
>no dashing

GG:

>iad
>super jumps
>double jumps
>airdash
>different jump arcs for walk/run

arcana heart:

>homing dash

marvel:

>tri jumps
>iad
>button dash
>super jumps
>flying/unflying/refly

vampire savior:

>double jumps (bulleta)
>hop dashes
>ground to air dashes (jedah, morrigan)

They don't.

The movement mechanics between "anime" fighters like BB, GG, arguably MvC etc, and "traditional" 2d fighters like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat are entirely different, and even between each franchise there are differences, even if they may not be obvious to you.

Pokken's mostly a 2d fighter as well, since the meat of it's gameplay exists inside the 2d phase and the 3d phase is really more of a specific mechanic on top of the base 2d game, and Pokken's movement physics and stuff is pretty different from either of the above groups of 2d fighters even if it's still very much in the vein of them in terms of mechanics and systems

Yes. In a game that isn't deigned like other fighting games. So how does that translate to "you can't have zoning characters in traditional fighting games"?

in how many of those games is there a separate jump button that acts independently of a directional input and allows free form aerial movement in the style of a typical platformer?

the op is wrong and there's lots of nuance between fighting games but there's a definite similarity between most fighting games and they way they feel when it comes to humping, aerial dashing or no

I'd love to see a new darkstalkers game that isn't horrible just to see how many people that keep mentioning it would actually play it. Fucking 3rd strike gets nothing but shit talk (not without reason) but at least the playerbase is loyal.

In none of those because they're not designed like shit.
Free form aerial movement like that would let you avoid absolutely any attack. Games that have this sort of mobility are pretty much always single player only because there's no issue with a single player game in which the player can always react to everything and avoid it if he's really skilled.

Also Huitzil's jump, which I don't think any other fighting game character even comes close to resembling.
>can hover in place in midair at apex of jump for a variable amount of time
>can change direction at apex of jump; jump straight up then drop back, jump back then drop forward, etc.
>can even waggle back and forth a bit as you drop ala ST Honda and Balrog
>can air dash multiple times per jump

>ever saying "street fighter clone"
Found the smashcuck

just because you can maneuver in the air doesn't mean you can't have attacks that punish or dissuade players from being in the air

Anakaris had also some pretty unique way of moving.

honestly some of the gems are actually cool ways to advance the match but it's going to get annoying so quickly after grinding the game out. it looks like fun though, reminds me of kof.

>Armchair developers saying fighting games are all the same
>VS
>Armchair developers saying fighting games have to have specific features otherwise they simply can't work

Oh my goodness this thread

Am I the only one that genuinely likes USF2?

And those moves only require you to get out of the way, they don't actually punish you. They would need to be xbox hueg to actually stop you from jumping with said mobility, otherwise the opponent is just going to avoid it easily or worst yet just become a "don't jump in the meantime" scenario with no actual nuance or high risk/reward to it.

>dashing, free form aerial movement, wall jumping etc. That seems like it would be a natural evolution of the genre to me.
Well all of these things are in street fighter so I guess we're done here. Another fucking retarded thread OP

>autists
>mainstream

Something here doesn't add up.

You can just said "hey add this shit that change the metagame entirely" without reworking almost the entirety of how the game works too. Not rocket science desu.

this

*can't just say

Some retard in another thread said it was the best version of street fighter 2. Must have been a literal retard but you're not alone that's just who you're stuck with since not that its bad most people would rather just play one of many forms of super turbo or new fighters available

can you show me a video of a character in street fighter moving in all of these ways thank you

Why is huitzil named after an aztec god but in universe made by mayans, but his actual design is based on acient japanese statues?

>without reworking almost the entirety of how the game works too

I think that's what OP wants though. No one is saying "Take the base formula and just add all of these movement options"

There's no point in making this argument, fighting game fans are minecraft-tier autistic, any kind of change sends them into a fit. Just accept that the genre sucks and move on

Why is that so bad though? It's been re-balanced, basically rebuilt from the ground up. It's not like HD Remix anymore. The only real issues I have with it are the price and online.

Why does every Smash Bros. stream monster do nothing but bitch? Why do they go online and make retarded threads like these instead of just playing their game? I don't think I can think of a fanbase where every player does nothing but bitch and moan because their main game got outed as antiquated, broken trash.

How come there aren't Smash fans who still play video games? And don't dickride Twitch streamers? Imagine a game where characters control like NES Castlevania, movement is super tight, spacing plays a key role, platforming elements are implemented heavily in a way where your every action must be well-thought-out, etc. That seems like it would be a natural evolution is competitive video games to me. Or at least a couple of games that play like that. But as of now everything really does look like it was built on top of super mario. Everything. Is it really that easy and convenient that it's impossible to shut up and go back to Smash?

Chun Li can do all of these things in street fighter 4 you mongrel

Because the story/setting in Capcom fighting games is largely an afterthought. Most of the work goes into creating the characters' overall images and theme, their movesets and animations, etc. since that's what's relevant in a fighting game.

It had no need to be? It was just another reason to sell street fighter 2 and you bought it lol

youtube.com/watch?v=27FRN227TNw

i'm not seeing it

Yes but as other posts have said, the easy part is day-dreaming about a game like this since the idea seems to have a lot of flaws already if it's not going to be multiplayer.
Capcom made both SF and Mega Man and never experimented with the idea of a hybrid of these two despite making like dozens of different fighting games, it's not as easy as it might appear.

SF2 wasn't perfect, it had its issues. Shit nigger it was re-released for the PS2. I don't know why it's suddenly such a problem with the game is released on a Nintendo plat. Suddenly it's unnecessary and horrible, but just fine on any other platform.

>It's not like HD Remix anymore

Its graphics are 100% identical. Is there a changelist for it somewhere? Or could somebody tell me what differences there are from it and HDR or ST?

Theres no way that you see last blade, 3s , GG and think to yourself that it looks the same and plays the same.

Unless you are a complete retard that is.

>Makes a post bitching about people bitching