This is what killed modern gaming

This is what killed modern gaming

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telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/08/07/playing-shooter-video-games-damages-brain-study-suggests/
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Waypoints and markers can be found in older games

probably part of the problem, they should also get rid of saving/loading and changing difficulty whenever in skyrim as well.

No popularity and too much money flying around did.

And they're all worse for it

There is not a SINGLE game that was IMPROVED by quest arrows
If anything, it makes the level design WORSE, because you don't have to make intelligent maps, just drag the player along

Oblivion had waypoints before Skyrim did

>Players shouldn't be allowed to save progress and they have to start another playthrough in this 50+ hour game if it's too easy/hard

i'd say mass teleportation points is worse

>follow the quest arrow
>it points directly towards a steep mountain
>climb it anyway

It's not the waypoints, but the simplicity of quest design.

Lol yeah they should just take saving out of games too. Actually they should remove regenerating health, aiming with guns, eyesight, the ability to run, and make every enemy one hit kill in games. I sure can't stand muh games being too easy

No, online multiplayer killed video games

theyre just a symptom of gamings broadening audience. stop playing AAA games

i meant replace that system with something else that makes you feel like you have something to lose when you die besides time reloading

looks like a MTG expansion symbol tbqh

You can literally turn them off in most games

>get mod to turn them off
>game is still boring

It's far from the real issue, but it's bad.

Thats the point.Oblivion and Skyrim were shit.Tough Skyrim without mods is better than Oblivion without mods due to not having a completely absurd lvling scale.

I sure did love wandering around aimlessly looking for "that one rock" your journal described before giving up and looking it up on the internet.

>and they're all worse for it

Name 1 open world game that would be legitimately ruined without any sort of guidance system.

>turn them off
>game never actually gives you enough information on where to go without it

part of me wants to agree

another part of me as a 34 year old man thinks that It's actually not that bad. Modern games have a lot more detail and its a lot harder to find things off the beaten path via a journal entry. It doesn't inherently hurt my gameplay experience, and honestly I work 45 hours a week and I dont really want to spend my time in an RPG with my dick in my hand as I bumble around the general location described.

>difficulty options in an rpg

No it didn't. If you consider modern gaming dead, it died from lack of oversight, lack of creativity, apathy from developers and among the player base.

I wouldn't really consider it dead though. I'd consider it in a long ass dip in quality, but not dead.

Not from marginal simplification of gameplay elements.

Thats not a good point. Turning markers off, wont make the npcs tell you to follow the road until the lake, and turn to west until you get to a big stone. they will still tell you "i marked in your journal.". Try playing older games, and you will see what i'm talking about.

That'll just end up punishing players who aren't abusing systems by making them lose progress

Broad appeal is more important then good gameplay, you should know this by now.

Money > your enjoyment

>braindead waifufag is too stupid
shocker

>go to restaurant
>get seated
>need to take a piss
>get up
>see the sign pointing to the restroom
>start walking over there
>your waiter jumps in front of you
>he screams REEEEEEEEEE you're ruining the restaurant by using the signs!

Fuck off, retard

>I sure did love wandering around aimlessly looking for "that one rock" your journal described before giving up and looking it up on the internet.

Well sucks for you for not even haveing basic as navigation skills. Fuck man bet you get lost in highways with how shit you are at that type of shit.

BOTW did this right, they told you about something recognizable and gave you a general area to look around, I don't know how it worked with the bitch hud, but with the PRO hud it made things better.

>game devs don't use quest markers
>forced to actually design creative landmarks for quests
>describe landmark in quest

Oh wow, it's almost like quest markers are for lazy developers.

that might just be the worst analogy I've ever heard

Nono. It's not game mechanics, it's developers and publishers and bloggers (game journalists) who are killing modern gaming.

Pretty sure he's talking about a system where you have to start over from the last time you went to sleep or some shit

It'd give purpose to all the fucking inns at least

Thankfully there are signs on the Highway to help.

>"go speak to the Jarl in Whiterun"
>fuck! Where do I go?

turning off the hud massively improves zelda botw, but i haven't played any other big open world games

That is a shit analogy, you spaz.

>Skyrim is too simplistic guys
>I can’t figure out where to go without the markers
Which one is it user?

What killed modern games' design is the mainstream appeal of games in the last decade.
The masses are too brainlet to appreciate any semblance of depth and passionate game design, and instead are obsessed with cheap thrills, consequently coathanger aborting genres like the RPG.

Not an argument.

brainlets killed games.

>Cherry picking
There are hundreds of times you're told "go to faggot cave" and given no other information.

He's right though, even if the NPCs gave you directions everything looks the same.

Morrowinds gives you clear direction to where to go.

They never give you direction outside of quest markers, because they want you to use them.
The only way to know where to go without markers on is to know in advance.

a diamond ghost coming out of a train tunnel?

one of the things they just turn the game into autopilot busywork
while is about action games (cod) it still applies to the blanket modern design
telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/08/07/playing-shooter-video-games-damages-brain-study-suggests/

The hud in BotW doesn't even do what this thread is complaining about.

This is a valid point. The Oblivion/Skyrim marker take it too far, but some general map/UI pointers would be fine, a hybrid system for some types of quests.

Now if I had to choose one, I would go with no quest markers, but there can be a compromise here.

the dialogue never expands upon the location, they just say i'll mark it on your map
so without the quest marker and the location marked on your map you'd have no idea where to go

Yes, but not all the time. Nine times out of ten you'd be given clear directions which are recorded in your journal, but gods forbid you fucking stumble into someone on the road and they want you to RUN WEST AND FIND THAT WICKED WHORE WHO STOLE MY CLOTHES, leaving you scanning empty hills for 20 minutes before giving up.

Skyrim.

user, we both know if there was a faggot cave you would be there right now

This. Played BotW on Wii U with HUD, then now playing again on Switch with Pro HUD and I'm finding new areas and overall just feels more comfy.

You can't just take out markers without making changes to the game to compensate for it. You would need NPCs to give a good description of where you are supposed to go based on landmarks, compass directions, and approximate distances. You should then need to plot a course on a topo map that doesn't even show your current location in addition to not showing your destination.

you really couldn't find that witch? jesus

Talk for yourself, nerd.

This logic is so dumb. You could have a beautiful and intricate level with a quest marker pointing you to the end of it. On the other hand you could have a straight path with the most beautiful journal entry telling you how to get to end of that hallway. One does not cause the other shitheads.

is there a mod for skyrim that

1) removes all game-generated quest markers
2) removes identification of significant areas as soon as you step foot in them

These are the worst parts of the game IMO, at least for exploration.

Hi Todd.

maybe because game has no clear objective?

nothing wrong with rpgs but these new rpgs are barely rpgs at all
they never give you directions so you can't actually find anything without markers unlike morrowind or gothic which will give you general directions to follow

You didn't say anything worth arguing.
Everyone in the thread that sees your analogy will know you're wrong.

It worked the exact same.
The "pro" hud just moves things like temperature to the menu instead of being displayed all the time.

Oh, I found her.
She was half buried through the ground for some reason.

Why not just say "Here, i'll mark on your map where you need to go" along with a vague description and put the waypoint on the map but turn them off in the hud
Therefore the player knows where to go specifically but isn't given exact explicit directions unless they ask for it

I didn't find her either. I'm sure if I had guessed the right direction it would have been pretty quick, but somehow I got completely lost and just ended up doing other quests.

you could probably do both of those in an .ini
you could for oblivion with locations and essential characters, which was actually really good because it still showed the crown marker when you initiate dialogue to say they're tied to a quest but they could be killed

>people defending quest markers by whining that lack of quest markers would force them to explore the open world RPG they're in

How to make a good quest
>Enter in a town and see that they have loads of bear asses in every house
>Meaning there are bears everywhere
>There are people talking about a legendary bear whose ass is massive
>Go talk to the mayor who is not interested to talk to you
>Mention the giant bear ass that you heard from villagers
>He asks how you know it
>Dialogue options based on what the game has detected you to experience comes up, with some locked away because your character hasn't experienced them
>Convince him to let you find this bear ass... for a reward
>He agrees and tells you of the three common locations of the legendary bear, although he says these are just rumours
>Villagers talk about where they have seen the bear sometimes, other locations you can explore
>The location of the legendary bear is a cave that has a mini dungeon inside of it that you can explore after you complete this quest which gives you a good reward

How quests are done now
>Walk into Village #225
>Guy runs up to you
>"Hey, we need help to kill this bear and grab his ass, help"
>Good guy response, neutral, Bad response
>"Great, the bear is around here"
>Gives a marker right on the bear's ass
>"There is also a cave you could also explore, I heard there is [rare item] in there, good luck!"
>Find and get bear ass before the game makes you go through the entire cave

This is completely different, there isn't something that you can see at all times to point you towards the bathroom. You had to search around and find a landmark to point you in the right direction.

meanwhile in morrowind
>have to go to place for quest
>put on boots of blinding speed
>cast levitate
>fly up in the sky directly to my location ignoring any side content, can't even see it either

>Create large map meant to be explored
>Make people play the game by going from point A to point B

I'm ok with games designed around a challenge with an optional easy mode. However most games are the opposite where they are designed around an easy mode and harder modes are carelessly put together with little thought for balance. Just turning of the hud in most games will not make them more fun or allow for more complex navigation methods.

>Turned off the quest markers with a mod
>never had a problem finding a location
You guys don’t get it. You’re attacking a symptom and not the core
problem. The problem is the quests in this game fucking suck because they’re simplistic as hell. Therefore they only need quest markers. The quest markers didn’t cause the quests to be simple in the first place. It’s backwards logic.

Dumb Todd poster

I'm guessing elder scrolls 6 will prompt you to literally teleport to the quest marker if you wander around for more than five minutes, kinda like how nintendo games tell you to take a break all the time.

>"You've been haven't progressed in this quest for a while. Would you like to transport to the quest marker?

You can make this ability available at any time with the dragon transport ability, available for purchase at the BethStore."

you didn't read my post faggot
i said quest markers AND location markers
no shit you can still do quests if the game marks the location of the place on your map, you still know exactly where to go

That's not true, at least not completely. Finding a key in Morrowind required me to search the belongings/furnishings of a certain character. I actually had to look around and you know, search for it.

In Skyrim I would go directly to the container it is and pick it up.

Gta does this everytime and is the most profitable and the best selling game of all time.

Don't give them any ideas

yeah good luck finding a place like punabi or some shit without knowing beforehand where it is when you're also literally blind.

>How to make a good quest
tldr; endlessly talk to NPCs with terribly written dialogue until you trigger an action

>GTA is an RPG

You can see with the boots on.

We aren't discussing how to make the most profitable game.

>levitate to the general location in a beeline
>go on the ground and find it
fuck off retard your game is shit

Op said quest markers killed gaming.

gta v sold 90 millions of copies

fucking
delete
this

You just described real life, which is bretty gud for an RPG to do so. It's more natural than "Hey random guy I have never seen before in this village, can you do thing that our village needs?"

Didnt ALttP have those too?

>more equals better
You retard.

Why are you just repeating yourself? Do you want me to repeat myself too?

finding the general location still requires you to read the directions in the quest, which is more than skyrim or oblivion ever requires you to do.

So in your opinion Skyrim would be significantly improved if instead of marking the location on the map the NP. gives you a short little text blurb about where to go? Because I don’t think it would.

Yeah I’m not defending Skyrim okay?

of course but morrowind's levitate system still fucked the game similar to flying mounts in burning crusade for WoW

Some jrpgs have this system, strory quest goes like "explore the town", "talk to people" and its pure shit. You just click all npcs and run rounds until something pops off, sometimes it requires backtrack

yes the game would be better if it didn't treat you like a baby and tell you exactly where to go

I'm not saying you are defending Skyrim. I'm pointing out that some quests intrinsically become more interesting without the pin point quest marker.

So in your analogy you had to look for clues in the world to find out where to go as opposed to just having the intrinsic knowledge of where the bathroom is. Games feel more engaging when you have to do this too as opposed to things like Skyrim where you have an arrow pointing out exactly where to go all the time. When there are waypoints you tend to not have to think about where to go and how to get there and most players don't explore on their own as a result so devs often don't put as much work into the level design.