The great debate

The great debate,

Other urls found in this thread:

neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/hakpak/combined/nwn2-kaedrins-prc-rof-spell-fix-and-spell-improvments?qt-recent=2&qt-top_mods=0
neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/script/script-spell-fix-compilation
tamrielfoundry.com/topic/the-ultimate-baldurs-gate-experience/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

i keep hearing that the second one is just the first expanded threefold in every way, so unless you were looking for some sort of short tight experience wouldn't the second one be considered objectively better by most people?

why not both?

Use the Tutu mod and play BG1 in the improved BG2 engine and then roll right on in to BG2 and TOB.

Fuck that re-release garbage.

second one is all over the place, very confusing at times. first one is more focused and it's got a better RPG feel to it, cause you start at the bottom and make your way up to the top.

You're meant to play all 3 games for the cinematic experience.

Cause Sup Forums feels the need to compare everything. Like comparing Divinity OS vs Pillars of Eternity for some goddamn reason.

yeah that's definitely retarded to compare those and I haven't even played them, they have very different combat systems and very different art direction

More like Baldur's Gay

>It's retarded to compare games in the same genre
haha, yeah...

BG1: A basic RPG, with a focus on exploration and combat, it lays out the foundation for the series (combat/basic plot/setting).

Shadow of Ann: A more linear, story focused game that doesn't feel as dated graphically and mechanically. Characters have much more dialogue.

Depends on what you want. A more free form adventure while exploring the country side? Baldur's Gate.

A more story focused, "traditional" RPG, then Baldur's Gate II.

Can I pick Icewind Dale 1 and 2 instead?

At least you actually get to fight shit in that game, and feel powerful

2E is dogshit for a cRPG because you can't lawyer with the GM.
cRPGs in general are dogshit because you can't interact with the party as you would with friends around the table.
So unless someone comes up with an AI that can perfectly simulate both a party and a GM that you can freely interact with have it dynamically respond to whatever you just did and change the game accordingly there will never be a good replacement for a PnP campaign.

The only alternative is to go in an even more restrictive direction, the story driven and character focused AAA RPG, but at least that one can deliver the interactive movie feel with the right production values. A lot less but much better fleshed out options.

Holy shit Sheldon, calm down, its a video game.

>At least you actually get to fight shit in that game, and feel powerful
>he never played a mage in BG2

ok Insomnia, but just because cRPGs don't replicate the tabletop experience doesn't mean they can't be something good that's different.

obviously it's bg1

a ton of remarkable characters that are not genre stereotypes
>they are onedimensional
they are but monty is still a hobbit that says suck yer blade, while korgan is very very devilish dwarf that killed its comarades and drank a lot

the fights are more fun
>git gud
everyone uses fucking cheese tactics

Exactly. That's why it's shit. 2E was built as a free form ruleset. You can tell the GM what you want to do and the GM would consider it and, if possible, make you roll skill checks. Wanna shove and enemy? Opposing strength checks. Wanna pay extra attention? Perception check. Wanna hide something from the party? Thievery check. Think a character is bullshitting? Insight + intelligence. Unless the conversation in that cRPG was programmed to allow for such a check, you can't do any of that.

But what can they deliver then? A bunch of murder hobos walzing around the forest getting into random encounters, looting shit, leveling up so they can explore higher level areas where they can kill tougher shit and loot better gear? How is that a fucking RPG?

Both are terrible. Good luck not being overcome by boredom and falling asleep.
Planescape: Torment at least has the story to keep you interested, and Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 have much better gameplay.

Planescape

A dedicated single player experience that lets the player customize a character and take their own approach in a reactive digital world. I agree that some RPGs just end up being adventure games with bad tactical combat tacked on, but some like Fallout and PST got it right, and are actual role playing games. They don't have the flexibility of pen and paper games but the tradeoff is that they are streamlined experiences you don't need a group for and they can tell a better defined story since they don't have to account for infinite possible player actions.

Exactly. And the AAA RPG is only the logical consequence of technological progress. You don't get 5 vastly different responses in every dialogue scene, but those 3 that you get are actually fleshed out in a way that shows your character interacting with the environment. Which is the best we can hope for until we actually reach that point where the AI can respond to the players choices in real time and create assets on the fly.

A better debate would be the Baldur's Gate series or the Neverwinter Nights series, but that probably just comes to down to whether you prefer ad&d or 3.whatever.

I agree, but I think they're very different in tone and aim as well as ruleset.
Real patricians know NWN II is the best anyway.

>static loot every playthrough
>the slog that is the first third of the OC
>the significant lack of user-made content especially in comparison to its predecessor
>only positive is extra races/classes and quick spellbook
Fuck you for making me remember how disappointed I always am that it's not as good as it could be.

>static loot means you always have a good equipment progression for every build rather than having to rely on random loot like in the first game
>playing as a melee class instead of a caster obviates having to rest between every encounter
>full party control from the outset, unlike the first game
>frenzied fucking berserkers
I'm sorry user, but NWN2 is objectively nowhere near as good as it could have been, I agree. The lack of great fan-made content compared to the first game really hurts, but if you know what you're in for the OC is still enjoyable and MotB is a glory.

cRPGs become good when they become post-RPGs and focus on the strengths of video games instead of adapting tabletop rulesets
see something like Deus Ex

i'll just keep telling this,
both game add to each other because of the story following and the feeling to go from lvl1 to lvl 20+.
starting with 2 is basically being amnesiac but at level 10

>relevant shops shouldn't have class specific items so that you can be surprised with decent items that may influence how you play your class
That guy's mod that randomizes loot is fucking garbage. It technically works, but it's so fucking shit, worse than everything being the same.
>implying resting is what makes it a slog and not the generic "kill, talk or kill leader, return" of every quest
I'll give you full party control, that was sorely needed.
And frenzied berserkers.

I'm sorry too, user, NWN2 is a completely and utterly decent game, just ignored a lot of good from its predecessor and made a lot of mistakes.
MotB is what the OC should have been. Why are the OCs always such generic garbage?
Although I loved NWN's OC even though it was trash. I don't give a fuck.

I played this through with an entirely created party. Did I miss out by doing so? I always see people talk about dialogue

BG1s story and character moments barely exist. You didn't miss much.

Both are overrated. There is no debate

Baldurs Gate 1 is the crpg, with the most memorable characters ever, imho. And no game comes even close to the wide variety of interesting characters, that BG1 offers.

Sadly, there's almost no party banter or companion interjections in the game (can be fixed with the increidble BG1 NPC project mod though).

>Why are the OCs always such generic garbage?
Because NWN 1 OC was tech-demo so show-off the capabilities of a module creator kit.
NWN 2 OC was 2deep4you parody of a generic fantasy story. And Old Owl Well was a parody of an average NWN 1 hack-and-slash module. Totally. It's your fault for not understanding Obsidian subtle genius.

both trash

That sums it up pretty well, honestly.

You missed out on being called a queer fellow hundreds of times in BG1 and the opportunity to listen to an autistic gnome ramble about turnips in BG2.
Damn right, you missed out

Both games are laughably badly written, but still a great adventure if you overlook the inappropriate tabletop mechanics and fanfic-grade writing. But the first game has the problem of completely removing the freedom and adventure halfway through hen it starts to literally teleport you between locations and railroading you through the story--the story being completely fucking stupid not helping either.

BG1 sucks because its low level dnd. BG2 benefited massively from starting your character out at level 6 or whatever it was. The writing in BG1 does not in any way compare to BG2. Its not a debate at all.

1 is nearly freeform adventuring and exploration.
2 is a linear story-heavy romance simulator.

You can literally see when Bioware took over from Black Isle.

What debate? BG2 is vastly superior to the first one in every way. BG1 is good but nowhere near the second one. I'd say it's better to play it first to see character progression though.

>but that probably just comes to down to whether you prefer ad&d or 3.whatever.
Not neccesarily. NWN has an engine that's not complete dogshit for it's time, for instance. Now, don't get me wrong it's not even slightly a GOOD engine, but it, for its time, is golden compared to how shit the Infinity Engine was for its time.

Ultimately my point wasn't just to shit on the IE but to note that there are many changes that could cause players to prefer NWN over BG other than just which D&D rules were (poorly) implemented by the games.

Of course, I completely understand where you're coming from.
That's really why I said "probably" because, really, most players aren't going to look that far into it and just go with which edition they prefer.
Casuals gonna casual.

BG2 is clearly a better game, but BG1 is my favourite. It's a perfect low level d&d adventure.

>perfect low level d&d adventure

get the fucking spellfix. UGH. do i have to spoonfeed you assholes every gods be damned thread?

the spellfixes WITH kaedrins shit.
neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/hakpak/combined/nwn2-kaedrins-prc-rof-spell-fix-and-spell-improvments?qt-recent=2&qt-top_mods=0


the spellfixes standalone
neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/script/script-spell-fix-compilation

The fuck are you talking about?

>install the fix
>decide to play some module
>it has its own files that aren't compatible with the fix's files
What's the next step of your master plan?

Me on the left.

the widely known shit that fixes every complaint people have with the base game and expansion campaigns

that's the module makes fault. at this stage, bnot using kaedrins etc is for retards who shouldn't be making modules anyhoo.

This. You start with BG1 and export your character into the next game, anything else is doing it wrong.

Apart from that, BG1 is quite different. It's fully open world, more focused on exploration and more grounded D&D adventuring with kobolds and gnolls instead of demons and shit everywhere.

BG2 already had a lot of the cancer that eventually killed Bioware - Romance shit, corridor levels, isolated locations instead of a fully explorable map.

>the widely known shit that fixes every complaint people have with the base game and expansion campaigns
Oh really, so it randomizes loot without the garbage that other one does?
It makes the OC not shit for the first third?

Go back to getting people to jerk you off in the forums, your shit sucks.

Man I was so disappointed last time I did that.

I suspect that the installation order of the mods I used caused problems when transferring from Shadow of Amn to ToB.

First the dialogue with Sarevok bugged out, manage to fix that, but I could never get past the first fight in the pocket dimension.

After the Drow wave I had to face Sarevok, Bodhi and Irenicus at the same time and it seemed like it was the full strength versions of the previous fights not a toned down version of them.

Really tempted to give it another go at some point though. Its great fun to do a complete 100% run from BG1 to end of ToB though I rarely reach the end since it takes so fucking long to do everything.

Gameplay and mechanics: 2
World: 1

I think that's due to Stratagems/BGT if you are using those. You need to import a save game into ToB instead of directly continuing SoA.

For some reason I never played the baldur's gate games when they came out and I finally got around to it this year. I really don't understand why BG1 gets as much shit as it does. I don't really want to pick a favorite. They're both good games but BG2 definitely has its flaws (the lack of urgency for saving Imoen floored me). I dunno, I guess I just don't dislike low level d&d.

I had both of those and that's how I got around the bug.

I suspect the problem was related to choosing to have Watchers Keep be the starting point instead of going straight to ToB.

Just found out that I still have BG1-ToB installed and fully modded and a save that is at the start of BG2 so I know what I'm going to be doing for the foreseeable future.

I remember I had no issues at all with this install so hopefully it works out better.

If I remember correctly I followed this, instead of winging it and hoping for the best.

tamrielfoundry.com/topic/the-ultimate-baldurs-gate-experience/

I have used that guide before with minimal issues but never used the Watcher's Keep start. Keep in mind that the guide is fairly old and doesn't make use of the newer fixpacks and such. Ascension for example is bugged in that it spawns way too many enemies during the final battle.

I recall there being a few updated versions of the mods recommended, but hopefully it works out in the end.
I can't be arsed to reinstall, but cause it takes fucking hours to get it done.

I'll take my chances. If I end up doing this it will probably be a couple hundred hours before I get to ToB since I have a tendency of doing every single side quest available when playing Baldur's Gate.

baldur's gate 1 goes to shit during chapter 7

Is the Imoen romance mod good? I have Immy with me in every party, so she gets her fair share of use.

I kinda agree, like a lot of BG1 it suffers from a lack of time to really flesh it out.

I really enjoy the Sarevok fight with stratagem mod installed though. Its a lot of fun even though I had to cheese it a bit with wand of summoning ect to keep Sarevok busy.

all the insane comments or battlecries

>YEA
>and the rivers run red
>better part of valor, b better part of valor
>we all doomed
>luck, be a lady
>magic, is impressive, but now minsc leads, swords for everyone

i think my autismo level reached a new height

The Sarevok battle is the high point of the BG experience.

You missed out on a lot of NPC banter, especially if you used mods. BG1 doesn't really have a lot of interjection between party members and PC compared to BG2.

I really enjoy doing the "canon" party from BG1 all the way through ToB while having the 6th slot open to rotate party members you get that are part of the side quests.

But that is just my strange way of playing Baldur's Gate. Not like you way is inherently wrong.

Yes. Especially if you play as a girl. Even fi you don't plan on romancing her, the added friendly banter and character interaction is great.

It's really comfy above all else, even if you don't want to romance her. I consider it a much better written than any bioware romance.

I thought that mod had a reputation of being incest fanfic.

Never bothered with romance mods besides the one added in the NPC project for BG1.

Does it start in BG1 or what? Doesn't give a lot of room to develop in the BG2.

Incest part is not even prominent, it's more about Bhaal blood fucking both of you up and you finding solace in each other. She does cute pranks on you with Aerie, has some good banter with another party members, comments quests. It starts in BG2 but doesn't feel outlandish.

Does the flirt pack add anything of worth or am I thinking with my penis again?

Let's put it that way - Flirt pack is compatible with Imoen Romance Mod. And IRM explicitly asks during the installation whether you want to enable Multiple Romances component. You can also add here Nothing Kills Romance from the Tweak Pack. Congratulations, you have pic related happening and accounted for in the plot and endings. Also, make sure you have plenty of charisma and full waifu brigade for catfights and full immersion.
Add on top of it No Gender and Racial Requirements from the tweak pack for your lesbian harem if you so desire.

If its like what the BG1 NPC project adds its probably decent enough.

Instead of dialogue only being initiated only by the NPCs, you can talk to them ect as well.

Personally never used the flirt pack though. I generally only add the NPC mods for BG1 and 2.

Can't say no to that.