Why didn't they just kill it before it grew into a monstrosity?

>I remember being cautiously hyped about Forces (before it was called that)
>Mania's release trailer already had me soaring and I felt like Sega was honestly making good on their promises to improve and earn the fan's trust back.
> That they were planning on something akin to the feel of Sonic Adventure but brought up to date.
>Not even an Adventurefag but this is honestly welcome compared to the joyless schlock that the modern games have become.
>Maybe it would be something with Love. Something that took itself seriously, but not to a comical degree.
>I wanted to believe that even something as twisted of an image as Modern Sonic could be redeemed.
>Then there's "Classic Sonic"'s inclusion.
>And yeah, Classic Sonic did literally nothing.

>Absolutely NOTHING. and then just fades away
What an amazing slap in the face to the Mania team to force them to include a shoehorned tie-in to Forces instead of letting the game organically and satisfyingly conclude.
And they basically said Mania didn't really happen at all (possibly to cover their asses in case it flopped, which it was never going to).
A mediocre, intelligence-insulting game that will surely age like milk, and the Mania team had the foresight enough to make their game as little about Forces as they could manage.
But that stain will always be there when it could have been something much bigger and better and more natural.

If anything they wiped away any REMAINING trust the fans had in them with this title.

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youtu.be/alydvl9f4DU?t=240
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How can Mania's story even make sense now? I was perfectly willing to accept the Phantom Ruby as something that can travel through time/other dimensions but now it just makes illusions and shit

The more important question is why the fuck Sonic Team hasn't been pulled from SEGA yet. There isn't a singe more clueless developer in the world than them.

Sonic is a fucking awesome character with great potential in his speed based platforming. So far ST hasn't even tapped into half of that potential.

>SEGA of Japan disrespecting SEGA of America

A tale old as time itself.

You'd think they'd have learned by now, what with their hardware department being dead and all

>Classic Sonic did literally nothing
He saved that little cowering bitch Tails from Chaos in a cutscene, saving us the trouble of actually having to fight Chaos in a boss fight.

This may be just me but really feels like ST was trying to make Forces specially for the japanese fans.

>Emphasis on dark and serious story.
>Japanese writer taking the job rather than make it a work of the westerners like Colors and Lost World did.
>Demos made specifically for japanese players.
>They barely showed stuff until Tokyo Game Show, an event mostly for the japanese audience.

Am i just seeing things? Everything about Forces, specially compared to Mania, feels very "japanese oriented"

This is not a defense on ST, but rather something that makes me shout "Why!?" even more. EVERYONE knows Sonic sells more on the west than the east, why the fuck pander to the audience that gives you the less money while alienating the more lucrative one?

The whole "filthy gajin" mentality of some japanese developers must be stopped.

I saw it more like the Time Stones but instead of traveling through time, the Phantom Ruby would make one travel through space.
And I wholeheartedly believe that's what the Mania team meant to imply.
But also consider the possibility that the reason why classic zones were mashed up with other zones is because they were all illusions created by Dr. Eggman....
And that just fucking sucks
>He saved that little cowering bitch Tails from Chaos in a cutscene
Yeah, like I said, literally nothing.

i feel like classic sonic shouldn't be in this game

By that logic, so was Mania.
There are lighthearted elements, but its a game that takes itself seriously and honestly believes the world it is in rather than live outside of it and make fun of itself in the meta sense, and I really treasure that about Mania.

Probably the reason they did Mania in the first place though, I dont know which went into development first but if you already have Mania being done by a western team for the western fans then why not cover your bases and make something for the Japanese fans, or vice versa.

>Everyone thinks Mania is the game that was all an illusion
>When really it should be Forces since the Phantom Ruby came from Mania
Forces is just Classic Sonic's fever dream.

Where is it stated Mania didn't happen?

Also, Classic Sonic tagged along with Tails, who has no real character development beyond being a bitch since Lost World. All the stuff Buddy did could have been done just as easily with Tails by handweaving it as inventions instead of Wisps, and after dropping Eggman has been foiled for decades now, Tails has experience going toe-to-toe with the good doctor's bad inventions and should have more of a backbone by this point.

Sonic Team might see some changes after Forces fails to meet expectations, or it could be a case where they'll get off with a slap on the wrist due to the game being a budget title and possible change of management since the project started.

Classic popped in with the same blocks as Infinite and other things created by the ruby, so who even knows by this point?

Threadly reminder that Sonic Forces fucking sucks and you're a literal retard for disagreeing.

But in a sense Mania barely had a plot to begin with while Forces is much story-oriented.

Because I don't think Sega's management and business heads don't care as well.

*think

I sure am glad they mandated Sonic Mania's good ending have no real conclusion so they could have Mania Sonic in Forces (and do nothing interesting or important)

Am i the only one that was getting homesick from the absence of serious story in a Sonic game? There hasn't been one since Sonic 06(a little for Unleashed though its a more light hearted).

The problem lies in that Sonic as a whole is a much western-favored franchise. There's still a decently-sized western audience that likes the modern takes on Sonic.

Covering your bases is a good strategy, its why I believe Forces, for as much as people bash on it, is not as big of a disaster as the internet paints it because Mania exists. However, they could have done it without alienating the western fanbase as well because, at the end of the day and regardless what their target was, Forces is STILL gonna sell more in the west than in japan, so in a way the focus on the east was all for nothing.

I'm not trying to say that wasn't a bad idea, but rather than regardless of who you're targeting you gotta try to find a balance specially when you know where your core public lies. Mario works everywhere because

Mario's appeal has always been, in a way, international. Regardless of its japanesy quirks, Mario rarely needs to appeal in one way to the east as he does to the west.

Meanwhile, Sonic has always had 2 different looks and styles depending if the west or the east handles him. This goes all the way back to the original classic games and how SEGA of America and japan fought all the time over their personal vision on how Sonic should look, act and play.

When you have a franchise as big as Sonic that still needs to constantly redefine itself to appeal to one side of the globe to the other, dissonance WILL be cerated no matter how hard you try, so might as well TRY to balance it.

You're not alone. I found the last few stories boring and shallow. As bad as Forces is, it at least had a few amusing moments.

It's the illusion of a Sega Saturn Sonic title that never existed.

Personally I don't mind Forces' story as much, in fact kinda like it. Its nice to have a mores tory-focused game after plots the like of Colors, Generations and Lost World. I didn't mind the lighthearted writing but you can only get it so much in a consistant basis before you crave something with a little more spice in it.

However, I feel the story suffers a bit because of the game's design and could have been better.

The way the game is made makes the story feel less exciting, plus stuff like Classic Sonic being shoehorned in and how Infinite's arc just...ends, because we need to have Eggman as the final boss really dampers it.

Also, while I do like the tone, I feel the dialogue is somewhat forced. It really feel less natural and I can really tell a japanese man wrote it first and localization mostly just copied it directly as everyone talks way more stilted and less naturally than Colors or even Lost World.

Not to toot Ian's horn, but I feel the prequel comics so far have the way better balance. It feels like the characters are talking naturally but the tone is still there.

Black Knight had sort of a serious story. I prefer when there's a balance. Like yeah, you can tell "deep" and interesting stories but just remember that the main character is a fucking giant blue hedgehog.

Honestly, I would love to see Ian Flynn try his hand at writing at least one Sonic game.
But it probably will never happen because gaijin scum will never outclass superior japanee man

>Black Knight had sort of a serious story
Knuckles (Gawain) literally tried to commit suicide.

They make good puzzle games to be honest.

Irrelevant.

Sonic is supposed to be like 3 feet tall.

They should have picked another name rather than SONIC Team then.

And Burning Rangers
And NiGHTS
And Billy Hatcher
And PSO
And literally any other game that isn't Sonic-related.

But they make Sonic games...

Ian Flynn is a pretty mediocre to bad writer, his best work has never been more than serviceable and he did best when he was struggling to continue the work of far worse writers in an entertaining way. It wouldn't benefit a video game anyway.

I am the tallest of mountains

I am the darkest of days

>Trusting them with NiGHTS after Journey of Dreams
>PSO
Does Sonic Team even work on Phantasy Star Online 2?

How can anyone have been hyped for this ever? It was obvious from the very beginning that this is exactly what we were going to get.

>Sonic is a fucking awesome character

t. Ian Brannen Something

Didn't Blaze try to throw herself off a cliff as well?

Nah she just fell.

Just like my wife did

Is there more?

Vector's original design is so good because it's shamelessly ripping off the alligators from Fantasia.

I have no clue, honestly. There are people out there who dismissed Mania while getting hyped for Forces instead, and I wish I could understand what the hell the thought process behind that is. It's gotta just be pure contrarianism, that's the only thing I can think of.

You foolishly assumed Sonic Team can still make good games.

correction. I foolishly thought they could turn themselves around after being humbled by all the hate they were getting for their recent titles and getting a wakeup slap from SegaSammy Holdings or whatever it was that told them they kinda suck now and are a shadow of their former selves

>pro developers who've been in the industry for years get UTTERLY BTFO by a group of fans whose only previous work was fangames and ports
Sonic Team won't recover from this.

they'll likely disband after this,

All the passion lies with the fans.
Its kinda the only reason Sonic is still going at this point.

>saving us the trouble of actually having to fight Chaos in a boss fight.
Fucking seriously? why even have him in the game? they could've shown his 3rd and 5th forms instead of doing nothing.

Fuck sonic team.

I'm surprised he hasn't said anything regarding forces.

It was just revealed that sonic has sold 380M games
Its no wonder they keep pumping them out regardless of quality

>implying sonic team won't get super butthurt and never collaborate with taxman again

I think they do but they don't want to slap the Sonic Team logo in anything that isn't Sonic related for some reason.

>He saved that little cowering bitch Tails from Chaos in a cutscene, saving us the trouble of actually having to fight Chaos in a boss fight.
Fucking serious? They brought back Chaos for that?

They're proud enough to slap Sonic Team's logo on Puyo Puyo
See for yourself
youtu.be/alydvl9f4DU?t=240

>Implying Iizuka isn't eternally grateful for Mania for saving his career
He pushed for it so he can take credit. If all he had was forces then he'd probably be fucked

I have one major question that determines if I buy this

Can you make your OC have a body type like Rouge?

Can someone bring me up to speed on how the sonic franchise became a deviantart fabrication series? How do you fuck up such a simple design to this degree?

No you waifufag. Every OC has the same stupid body shape.

The real reason is they needed a quick replacement for boom sonic

They are all flat, regardless of species

Good to see Eggman continues to be too good for this series

>it has been over 10 years since we could play as the other characters in a mainline sonic game

no one disagrees except for literal children and autists at /sthg/, when even twitter and leddit don't like it you know it's fucked

>when even twitter and leddit don't like it you know it's fucked
that actually means its a decent game tho

>autists at /sthg/
Please tell me they're aren't defending the game.

They defend everything.

Most of them are at least depressed as well.

>implying anybody would have cared about Iizuka if Mania didn't exist

the game would still sell like hotcakes and at the end of the day that's all Sega cares about.

>the joyless schlock that the modern games have become
Are you kidding? The light-hearted story approach did wonders for the last few Sonic games. We don't need super serious edgy shit on a game about a cartoon hedgehog

>/sthg/
These guys are stuck 24/7 running in circles in sanic threads, if they weren't fucked up in their heads when they started you can bet that they lost it long ago.

So what was the deal with Infinite? Was he Tails or it was nothing and he just goes away?

He appears unmasked and with a sword in the leaks for the Forces prequel comics, but is basically just sort of there in the actual game.

He wasn't real. Literally Eggman's OC as a solution to get rid of Sonic.

>The light-hearted story approach did wonders for the last few Sonic games

I bet you laughed at all the food """jokes""" and LULMETAHUMOR.
Pontac and Graff are a joke and their writing shows for it, being lighthearted is one thing, but writing stupid and talentless scripts that clearly show the writer has no idea of the source material they're writing for can never be defended

>He appears unmasked
Wait is he not a robot?

He's a Bio-Android. He's made with the DNA of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Espio, and Fang.

someone please just start posting Sonic the sissyhog

From a Famitsu interview with Iizuka

>Q: What is the nature of this extremely powerful villain Infinite?

>A: Iizuka: He was not always evil, but unlike Chaos, Infinite was not born by mutation, he’s animal character like Sonic’s team. The reason why he becomes powerful and why he becomes evil… you’ll get your answer in Shadow’s free DLC.

>The more important question is why the fuck Sonic Team hasn't been pulled from SEGA yet.
Because the games sell, Sonic Team can shit out a turd fanboys will eat it up regardless of quality.

this

>He's made with the DNA of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Espio, and Fang
user, we're not talking about your deviantart OC here.

Are we not talking about Infinite?

man i miss Hyper Sonic

>waaaah sonic mania's story never happened
>muh furry hedgehog lore

It's a fucking video game you turbo autists, none of them actually happened and none of this shit matters

>It's a fucking video game
And where are you right now, user?

I can accept that Mania only took place in a hallucination, but this also kinda means Hard Boiled Heavies are confirmed never ever coming back unless they do some extreme asspull shit, since they "don't exist". That's what really upsets me.