Rogue Squadron III: Rebel Strike (GameCube, 2003) - 333,333 (20 million/sec, 60fps)
Infamous: Second Son (PS4, 2014) - 11 million 30fps
How the fuck was that even possible? I recently installed nintendont and downloaed a bunch of Game Cube games, my mind was blown by the Rebel Strike graphics, it could pass as an early 360 game , I tough REmake was the peak of the console, but boy I was wrong, where is Factor 5 devs now? The guys are wizards!!
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I really want to know how they did the genosis level with all the rocks flying around that you can destroy.
Reminder they made Rogue Squadron Trilogy (all the best levels from all 3 games remade into one giant story) on Wii with this level of technical wizardry.
It was 100% complete but got shelved.
And original xbox too (which was the basis for the wii version)
I thibk it was all 3 games as a whole in one
F-Zero GX - 60 FPS
It came out on the Gamecube. Way less of an install base. Games have grown a lot.
Probably used lots of low-level gamecube rendering hax. I remember the gameplay being pretty mediocre but damn it looked good.
> How the fuck was that even possible?
shaders bro
Factor5, the devs of the game who were also technowizards, saw Nintendo's SDK and said it was shit.
Then they proceeded to write their own SDK, entirely from scratch, in Assembly.
The game is basically made in Assembly, hence the insane shit it can do.
Jesus christ.
Rogue squadron looks like shit
>20 million/sec
20000000/60=333333
YOU FUCKING RETARD
If only they had existed in the age of kickstarter or something. To think such a team would go unrewarded, it's truly a crime against humanity.
The Gamecube had a lot of very visually impressive games for it's time, although some like Wind Waker and Viewtiful Joe just have timeless art styles. The Rogue Squadron games hold up incredibly well still though, they look more like early Xbox 360 era games than Gamecube era games.
>where is Factor 5 devs now?
Dead, killer after Microsoft canned their Wii release of RS Trilogy which they expected for financial injection and after Sony betrayed them with Lair, game was forced a year ahead of planned release AND Sony forced the game to use exclusively the Sixaxis gyro motion controls to control the flight, which everyone hated when the game came out, it got reviewbombed and sold like shit. After that Sony forced them to patch-in optional non-motion controls months later but it was too late, the game was dead and so was the company.
RIP Factor 5.
too bad they are germans and therefore incompetent when it comes go make more than 1 good game
by running at 480i
thats a joke, I dont understand how games these days struggle so much to reach even 30fps in 1080p, Rogue Squadron 3 pulled much more polygons than the official nintendo specification for the console
6 million to 12 million polygons/second (Display capability assuming actual game with complexity model, texture, etc.)
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hey look its battlefront ops no its a gamecube game lol
Mostly because the GameCube was pretty nifty and this was still an era of low resolution textures.
Once everything went HD it knocked game development back a step which it has still never recovered from.
dead after releasing this masterpiece. Less european companies the better
>the absolute state of modern consoles
>too bad they are germans and therefore incompetent when it comes go make more than 1 good game
German Factor5 is a completely different and unrelated company. The Factor5 that made the games was Factor5 Inc. and was situated in California. The German Factor5 was just the parent company that had nothing to do with actual development.
Both games are 480p but nice shitpost.
Read my post instead of being retarded. Lair being shit is entirely on Sony.
based machine programmers
Reminder that they also had a Pilotwings game in development for the Wii that they had to can because Nintendo didn't support them fully - up to and including refusing to even let them call it WiiFly when they were made to rebrand it.
Reminder that this came after the exact same shit happened with Pilotwings for Gamecube.
Along with Rare, Nintendo's treatment of Factor 5 has to be one of the most outstanding examples of them completely wrecking their relationship with a respected third party developer they very easily could have literally owned if they'd wanted to.
>Lair being shit is entirely on Sony.
Negative. I hate Sony but I owned a copy of Lair and it's worse than Hong Kong 97.
The game is not only unfinished but is unplayable either with motion controls or normal controls
And they spent 4 years making that shit
meanwhile second son
11000000x30=330000000
SO YEAH
330 000 000 polygons a second for second son
and only
333 333 polygons a second for your gamecube game
Rogue Squadron III : 480p
Second son : 1080p
its still shit don't get me wrong but resolution is the problem
Can these games be finally emulated properly?
>The game is not only unfinished but is unplayable either with motion controls or normal controls
Sony forced the devs to release it year ahead of internally planned contractual agreement, ergo Sony's fault.
Sony forced the devs to release the game with ONLY motion gimmick controls deliberately telling them to REMOVE the fucking normal control scheme, causing the game to get shat on in reviews and bombing, again Sony's fault.
Fuck off you literal Sony shill, Factor5 got fucked sideways but literally every single company they worked with.
They have been for good 2 years now, you need a beast PC though to play them without stuttering.
>It was Nintendo's fault that Factor 5 went downhill
Is this what that faggot Liam Robertson from Unseen64 is telling people? Kek.
Factor 5 sealed their fate the instant they partnered with Sony for Lair. They simply did not have the talent to match wtih their ambition the way that, say, MonolithSoft did.
Rare wasn't third party, by the way. They were second party. What happened with Factor 5 is more similar to what happened with Silicon Knights. A company believes that they are too good for Nintendo, tries to make the jump to the 'real' consoles, and crashes and burns as a result.
meanwhile A SINGLE CHARACTER, the Thunder jaw in Horizon: Zero Dawn has 550 000 polygons
A single character in that game has more polygons than the entire scene in your gamecube game
Also don't know why I wrote Microsoft, meant to say LucasArts.
>SEETHING
and it still looks worse somehow
Yes, OP is spewing some bullshit and Sup Forumstards are eating it up because they're retarded.
>in different timeline, Factor 5 released their Rogue Squadron trilogy on Xbox and Wii, Lair wasn’t fucked my Sony, and made a prequel era Rogue Squadron along with leading development for Star Fox Zero
maybe, but OP sure doesn't know the difference between a frame and a second
Considering how unimpressive that game looks in comparison, it seems more like a waste of resources than anything else.
Is anyone even considering Horizon for GOTY 2017?
>and made a prequel era Rogue Squadron
They actually did this in current timeline, it's called Battle for Naboo.
>Sony forced the devs to release it year ahead of internally planned contractual agreement, ergo Sony's fault.
Citation needed. Besides 4 years is enough
>Sony forced the devs to release the game with ONLY motion gimmick controls deliberately telling them to REMOVE the fucking normal control scheme, causing the game to get shat on in reviews and bombing, again Sony's fault.
irrelevant. The game is shit regardless, even if it had proper controls it would be a 5/10 at best
wish this game wasn't so bad though
whose brilliant idea was it that they should put foot missions into a rogue squadron game?
>whose brilliant idea was it that they should put foot missions into a rogue squadron game?
LucasArts'
Fucking lucas
Lucas =/= LucasArts
>with leading development for Star Fox Zero
FUCK
That's where you're wrong, kiddo
dunno but it's the best looking open world
Which company got fucked over harder, these guys or Free Radical?
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>being incompetent
>dude it was an evil malicious corporation full of white fascists that fucked them! they are innocent
Normies that don't own a Switch and Zelda
you completely invalidated your entire post by showing you've fallen for the 'second party' meme
>Factor 5 sealed their fate the instant they partnered with Sony for Lair. They simply did not have the talent to match wtih their ambition the way that, say, MonolithSoft did.
In their defense, the failure of Lair wasn't entirely the fault of Factor 5 and more the fault of Sony and the architecture of the PS3. The PS3 was notoriously difficult to program for and came with a steep learning curve and as a result, many of its early titles suffered for it because the devs couldn't figure the damn thing out in time to meet releases and had to shove their games out the door anyway. Eventually, most devs figured it out and the PS3 wound up with a pretty strong lineup by the end of its lifetime but Factor 5 didn't stick around long enough to learn because Lair was such a shit show.
Oh right I keep forgetting that existed, unlocking the Darth Maul level was so satisfying, but I meant one that included Gunships, prequel v-wings, torrents, and arc-170s along with unlockable separatist ships like tri-droids and vultures
>we have a butthurt sonybro
>Muh 2017 game is more complex than ur 14 yo old
Grow a pair of balls kid, 20m per scene is what the gamecube could store and process in real time on memory, and sorry THATS FUCKING INSANE by comparing to current PS4 technology , also ur game is 30fps only
>muh post process instagram filter bullshit
>muh AA that ends up being more performance hungry than downscaling
>muh libraries that i dont know what the fuck to do with them so we spaghetti code all over the place
>muh console raw power actually cut in 6 and with luck we have 1 of those cuts if not half of it
>muh deadlines to rush things up
>muh shareholders who dont give a shit
>muh retard consumers who will fall for it over and over again because we have them by the balls with names like star wars and such
>muh journos that has less knowledge than a toddler and we still have them in our pockets
Why?
What does this have to do with anything?
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>being at all surprised that the games industry has moved away from being skill-focused to being marketing-focused
Just waiting for the crash like I was 10 years ago.
Factor 5, Pandemic, Obsidian, and many more competent devs will get shitcanned to keep publishers afloat.
Things like normal/bump mapping made it possible to make very highly detailed models with fewer polygons.
>defending Cell architecture
>ever
>at all
We should have learned this from the Saturn. Multi-thread dependent hardware is a mistake
German engineering isn't just a meme.
I can't believe Pandemic are still underrated. Every time EA kills another company their name is brought up.
>is a mistake
Not really, it just isn't always implemented well. When it is, it's clearly superior. Also, if you want to make a supercomputer, it's a necessity.
Consoles aren't and will never be a supercomputer. Console design philosophy should be just to package the best available hardware in a simple system at the best available price point. Anything more complex than that and you're fucking over your devs, who will be largely incompetent in advanced computer sciences and will end up making your product worse.
Look at Sony, the PS1 was graphically terrible but very simple to program for with C libraries baked-in. The PS2 and PS4 were just well-budgeted computer builds. Only the PS3 actually stood the risk of flopping and it was entirely due to the atrocious launch lineup and lack of competent developers.
Texture resolution, post-processing, lighting, shadows, AA. There's a lot more that goes into graphics other than polygons.
>PS2
>computer build
It had 128bit architecture that was just as complex as Cell back then
you're writing complete mumbo jumbo
I don't know if this was mentioned, but infamous second son can run at an unlocked frame rate. In action scenes it is usually 40, but more calm scenes it is 60fps.
V-sync may be on by default.
Also next Gen changes have more than just polygons to compute. Photo realistic textures, particles, post FX.
But I do agree it is kind of annoying that most games target 30fps and shiny graphics. I guess it is easier to still a game based on how great it looks than how great it plays.
And the graphics are usually downgraded anyway...
>post-processing
>literally ever good
Lol, no. And texture resolution quality is artstyle dependent, a game with good style can overcome having very limited textures, even to an extreme degree like with Cel-Shading. High resolution textures are only super important for trying to achieve a 'lifelike' look, which is all the rage these days because devs are frauds.
actually
330 000 000 and
200 000 00 but yeah
Actually, GameCube architecture sucked with textures. That's why both Rogue Squadron and Metroid Prime opted to have more details in the models and utilize the sheer polygon pushing capabilities of GameCube, while having noticably worse textures that didn't look that bad thanks to important detail being in the models themselves.
DigitalFoundry even explains this in their Metroid Prime video.
No it wasn't. More bits does not equal more inherently complex. Hell, Nintendo jumped from 16 to 64 bit systems and aside from some hardware wankery the N64 was fairly easy to work with.
If you don't understand why the Cell was an abomination, go read a book and stop shitposting.
Post processing and AA (which in itself is post processing as well these days with FXAA, SMAA, TLAA and their derivatives) is one of the prime reasons why modern games run like shit, and most of it is straight up awful.
Every time I play a new game on PC, the very first thing I do is go into options to disable post-process cancer.
>where is Factor 5 devs now?
They're dead, Jim. They went bankrupt trying to develop a Superman game of all things.
Cell was an abomination because it wasn't a true multicore CPU. The threads couldn't operate separately, all information had to be ran through the first core, which is primarily why Cell is such a piece of shit.
Yes. There are fantastic texture packs for both of them too. Google it.
shit like FXAA has practically no impact on performance
How well does it run on Dolphin?
Rare was so sold by their head owners , not Nintendo.
And what makes you think that's in any way comparable to 128 bit architecture, assuming you're that user
Used to not work at all until like 2015, now it runs pretty damn well.
>shit like FXAA has practically no impact on performance
It does have impact on performnce depending on preset used by devs and amount of shit it detects on screen actually and it can range anywhere from 1 fps to up to 5 fps, but that's not the core problem with FXAA. The core problem is that FXAA like all post-process AA forms is literally just an "intelligent" blur filter and will always smear the image and give you this siganture soft "vaseline" effect.
Go play Killzone 2 and 3 on PS3 which are especially good examples of that shit, they use extremely aggressive post-process AA and the image just looks as if looking at it through a glass of vaseline jello.
There isn't a single instance in any videogame where FXAA/SMAA/TLAA would be preferrable over downsampling if you have the power to do it.
I am that user and I'm aware PS2's case is not the same, but what I meant with that comment about PS2 is that it was still radically different architecture that the devs had to learn.
The problem isn't in devs having to learn, it never is and it pisses me off that there's people saying we should stick to x86 forever because "it just works" and we know how it works. The problem with Cell wasn't having to learn it, the core problem was with the major architectural flaw where all information done by all the threads still had to be ran through the first core, that piece of shit was simply incapable of true multithreading.
I meant why do modern games not necessarily need as many polygons as old games to look better. I know the GCN didn't do that stuff. The Xbox was the only console that could do it at that time.
Normal mapping is the main reason. Shaders in general help immensely, but good normal maps pull most of the weight.
Rogue Squadron 2 and 3 do have pseudo bump mapping actually, though this is basically just Factor5's assembly wizardry.
Devs this based don'r exist anymore.
Yeah, stuff like that was hacked into the PS2/GCN by clever devs. Using stacks of textures to make grass and fur on Shadow of the Colossus is a good example.
I know, that's what I said, I just worded it very poorly and didn't realize it.
>but good normal maps pull most of the weight
This, Crysis actually has extremely unimpressive textures unmodded, but its Very High setting (which was exclusive to DX10 back then) adds Parallax Mapping and that's what truly makes the game shine.
Pic related is random screen of Crysis with Parallax Mapping enabled I just grabbed from google, note how the completely flat rock texture appears entirely 3D up close, only becoming completely flat farther away from the screen. That's because Crysis shaders didn't allow to Parallax Mapping and Anisotropic Filtering to work in tandem, you could only have one or the other, so using Parallax automatically disabled AF. Someone later made modded shaders that enable 16x AF with Parallax and the 3D illusion is thus preserved at farther distances.
Also as a matter of fact, Witcher 2 has the exact same problem with using normal maps but its shaders not supporting AF, which is why ground textures look like muddy shit few meters away from Geralt no matter what you do unless you point the camera directly top down. They fixed this in RED Engine for Witcher 3.
Didn't it use to have framerate problems, though?
In what way did I defend it? I was pointing out that it was stupidly hard to develop for and because of it, most early PS3 releases sucked dick and most ports were broken as fuck. It wasn't until midway through the system's life that devs started to figure the damn thing out and it started getting more consistently good games and functional ports but that quality had nothing to do with the system itself. The strong lineup was just because there were good devs willing to stick around long enough to learn it. In the end, it didn't do anything that 360 couldn't do but it wound up with a better lineup than 360 because all of the good developers chose to stick with Sony. I don't know why they did but they did.
We need more Star Wars space games like this. No idea why EA are just sitting on the licence producing like one title.
I'm not saying we need to stick to what works out of principle, its just an issue of practicality. We live in an era of increasing technological mediocrity, why would a business pay someone who knows how to run advanced computer systems when its flat fucking cheaper to dumb things down?
Once the crash happens and an outside company decides to enter the console scene, maybe we'll see a move away from the poor practices.
Because EA's publishing philosophy is tied to single-branded yearly releases with DLC and lootboxes. People won't buy that twice yearly.
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it has no perceivable hit on game performance
Neat