Who remembers this great RPG? and why hasn't it gotten a sequel or remake?

Who remembers this great RPG? and why hasn't it gotten a sequel or remake?

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Because it got a prequel.

Damn dude I just started playing this last week. I usually don't finish JRPGs because they're long and repetitive but this one has a really cool progression system.

It got a shitty prequel that gutted everything good about it.

>Wrecked the Quest Magnus system
>Wrecked the battle Magnus system
>Wrecked combat by removing spirit numbers and combos
>Removed deck building entirely
>Ruined the pacing by making each random encounter more challenging
>Ruined exploration/dungeons by adding a heal to full HP after each fight to compensate for the more challenging basic fights
>Wasted our time by using mostly recycled locales and being a prequel rather than following up the end of the first game.

It got a shitty prequel that ruined any further chances of the series getting a good game.

ahh... never played the prequel but that explains it.

>game has a perfect ramp up right until the last arc
>ending is absolutely fucking abysmal and pacing goes to shit

>Sup Forums shitting on the prequel

Up until now, I heard the prequel game was the better of the two. Never played any of them, so I have to emulate the original ?

>Up until now, I heard the prequel game was the better of the two.
People who prefer the sequel are nutcases who didn't like anything about the first one that actually made it unique.
>Never played any of them, so I have to emulate the original?
Yes. The prequel wouldn't even have any value for you without the context provided by the first. You won't give two fucks about things meeting a young Emperor Geldoblame if you haven't played Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean.

No huge spoilers but: The first game ends with the creation of a whole new world for the characters/nations to inhabit... Instead of exploring the future we built in the first game, we just get a shitty prequel where they recycle environments the whole time to save money.

I was such a shitter I couldn't finish it. I got stuck, unable to go back and unable to beat this one battle on a boat or something against like two or three story badguys? It was a back to back battle or something.

There's one part of the game where you can get locked into it with no real place to go grind or anything and be underleveled. It's the second or third fight against Giacomo and his underlings.

You CAN win, but it's gonna be hard and you'd need to be lucky too.

That or it's the first Giacomo fight and he didn't use the Blue Flower to level up before it started. It's really hard if you don't level and rank up first.

That one. I got stuck on it and it was pretty much impossible for me. I don't know why it was stupidly hard when the rest of the game wasn't tough until that point.

Last arc is pretty darn par for the course. Oh no, villain is trying to ressurrect an ancient god of evil. Oh no god of evil came back. Oh look we have to fight a god now.

It's not bad, it's just not altogether creative or unique. Lava caves sequence is the best part of the game obviously. I remember some of the sidequests to get the final special move cards were cool.

Lyude is best character

It's not an amazing game by any means, but I loved it anyway. Definitely recommend searching for an undub, though.

Love the plot twist

Oh, maybe that one as well. I don't remember using a flower to level up, it has been a long time though. I don't think I ranked up.

The real trick to that fight is selecting the best order to take out the henchmen as well as using combos to maximize damage.

Yeah that part is pretty crazy. You can just fuse sacred wine to rez a character or heal 500 health, and that trivializes the fight. It's somewhat poor game design though.

that's some godawful taste you got, user

I tried replaying this, but the extremely slow beginning sucked the wind right out of me.

>go here, talk to this guy, walk to this area, talk to this guy, repeat, did you talk to everyone yet?

Love all those arguments and rebuttals.

The first couple hours are a bit slow, but it takes off pretty quickly.

Must be your first JRPG if you're put off by a slow start.

I liked it the first time through, but I didn't enjoy the game a second time through. Baten Kaitos Origins' battle system spoiled me.

i dont like games where luck plays a big part of the battle system

Love the dungeon designs, especially Mira's. The soundtrack is IMO Sakuraba's best.
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I enjoyed the prequel's gameplay and story more. I don't believe I'm a "nutcase"

Don't take a couple of outliers on Sup Forums take on it as gospel.

Yeah, you probably failed to use the leveling system. You were early in the game and hadn't recruited anybody except the blonde fairy chick.

You gain EXP from fights like any other game but you have to visit the Cathedral via Blue savepoint flowers in order to actually level up using that EXP. You also need special catalyst magnus to rank up there, and ranking up is HUGELY important, because it controls the size of your hand and how many cards you can play in a combo.

>Ruined the pacing by making each random encounter more challenging

Not sure why you think this. If anything Origins is easier. The quick pace means you're not a sitting duck, waiting for enemies to just wreck you. You can quickly take out bosses and enemies with the right setup and strategy. And of course it's going to have some of the same locations, it's a fucking prequel set in the same world. Sagi and his friends aren't from the mushroom kingdom user, they belong to the same universe Kalas does.

>I enjoyed the prequel's gameplay
All they did was strip out everything that made BK unique and replace it with generic systems that would be at home in other JRPGs.

>it's a fucking prequel
Yeah and that's a bad thing because it's fucking boring to just retread the same fucking environments a second time. They just wanted to save money.

All those things were garbage though

>Not sure why you think this.
It was a clearly stated design goal from the devs that was mentioned in magazines and interviews leading up to release.

>rare discussion of the baten kaitos games gets quickly ruined by original vs. prequel arguing
goddamnit you guys

>All they did was strip out everything that made BK unique and replace it with generic systems that would be at home in other JRPGs

But they didn't? The combat system is still pretty unique. It's just more refined, fast paced, and less luck based. Battles in the original felt agonizingly slow at times when you got nothing but defense cards.

See? People who prefer Origins are nutcases who didn't like anything about the first one that was actually unique or interesting. They stripped out every unique feature and basically made it into a really generic JRPG.

That music, that atmosphere, that character design.
It is truly saddening that a new entry to the series will likely never be made.

I think the IP might be co-owned by Bandai and Monolith (so Nintendo), which always complicates things.

Well it ended up being the opposite, at least for me. I found the battle system to be rather lenient, allowing me to cheese through a lot of shit. I don't know, maybe I'm just more used to it, but I was able to more easily tear through bosses and enemies thanks to the real time aspect of it.

>. Battles in the original felt agonizingly slow at times when you got nothing but defense cards.
That's your fault for building your deck wrong.

The worldbuilding really was fantastic.

Welcome to literally EVERY Baten Kaitos thread user. This time it's just unique because the fight wasn't instigated by fans of Origins parading around talking shit about Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean.

>great
the only reason this shit is remembered is because gamecube didn't have many JRPGs. this would be Shadow Hearts tier at best on PS2.

Not really. I mean, they changed the way a lot of the maps were set up, and even added some new enemies. If anything I liked going through them a second time and seeing what they were like 20 years ago. Prequels aren't necessarily going to be entirely different, and I think you're just nitpicking and trying to desperately find something to complain about. There were enough new locations to differentiate it from Eternal Wings.

One thing to hate a game, but bitching about a prequel similar is just stupid. It's like expecting not to see koopa troopas or goombas in Yoshi's Island. You're going to get something similar, it's a prequel, set in the same universe. What the hell did you expect?

Granted, my reason for getting it was to play some sort of RPG on the Gamecube, but I think it was a legitimately interesting game with a unique battle system.

If I don't like a game, I don't like it. I'm not going to judge it based on how many RPGs are on a system.

I don't know guys, I like Origins as much as the original. Probably my favorite RPG series of that generation along with Shadow Hearts.

I'll admit I'm sad that we'll probably never see a new entry since Monolith has Xenoblade now.

Not really, you can definitely get fucked by RNG pretty hard in the original. You need a decent chuck of your deck to be comprised of defense/misc cards to make it through battles. You can easily end up with a hand full of shit you can't play and be hoping to top deck something useful.

I liked the original overall but origins is simply better, especially when it comes to game-play.

Shadow Hearts 1 and 2 are some of the best PS2 JRPGs so that's pretty high praise.

Not him, but while I liked Eternal Wings, I'm actually happy it did streamline some stuff. The wings of the heart were a nice new addition. Being able to fly around, at least for me, was preferable to walking. I'll admit, I wasn't happy to discover that you got healed after every battle, because that took out the resource management aspect of Baten Kaitos. But I must admit I do like that battles are more intense.

I think people can like both games for different reasons. There's no need to have this huge schism.

>Not really, you can definitely get fucked by RNG pretty hard in the original
Only if you build your deck badly. If you do it right, bad situations will be the exception, not the rule
>You can easily end up with a hand full of shit you can't play and be hoping to top deck something useful.
Only if you build wrong. Maybe I was benefiting from my experience playing TCGs like Magic the Gathering and Pokemon, but I understood the value of proper deck composition.

What, The Legend of Dragoon? It wasthe most generic piece of shit on the PS1. It really was the CoD of jrpgs.

Would that even be possible though? When Baten Kaitos was made, Monolith Soft was still owned by Namco. Who technically owns the rights to this franchise? Fuckin A this is what I hate about capitalism. It does a lot of things right, but this constant changing of hands and buying up companies really complicates shit.

Shadow Hearts is fucking awesome so cool.

They quietly announced a sequel for DS a long time ago that was then quietly cancelled and never mentioned again.

Baten Kaitos user

I liked Origins but I never played the Eternal Ocean so I can't compare them. I thought Origins had a pretty smooth battle system so if the one in Eternal Wings is supposed to be better I need to give it a go someday.

Shame really. Wish it could have happened.

Was that when Namco still owned Monolith? I forgot, when did Nintendo buy them?

Because Kalas is the traitor.

BK got me through my parent's divorce... I was fucking super hype for a DS sequel. I remember thinking about playing it in bed at night and getting hype as fuck. Baten Kaitos DS was one of my first experiences with vaporware.

I don't know for sure. I think Nintendo bought them because BK was such a hit for them. Remember: BK1 is full of Namco references, so it figures they were still owned by them at that point.

At this point, is there anyone that doesn't know this? Has anyone not already played Baten Kaitos? Or is it like a Snape kills Dumbledore sort of deal?

Next you'll say The Last Remnant is good.

I'll always remember the night I bought Baten Kaitos. It was raining, and my car hydroplaned, tapping the bumper of some 50 year old dude's car. No damage done, but it was the first "accident" I got into as a teenager. All things considered that was a great night. Got this game used for cheap at Gamestop and played it.

Shadow hearts 1 and 3 (yeah THREE, fuck off faggot) are solid 7/10 games while Covenant is a 8.5/10 gem.

Kill yourself if you think otherwise.

No I won't, but I will extend praise to Shadow Hearts whenever necessary, especially Covenant.

When I was a 12 year old shit kid I saved up money to buy this game then Star Fox Assault came out and I bought that instead.

Assault was a genuinely good game all things considered. My cousin and his friends were playing that game with each other for years and years. Probably my most played game next to Melee that generation.

Though, if you didn't have friends at the time, I imagine it was probably a solid 7/10.

>I mean, they changed the way a lot of the maps were set up, and even added some new enemies
Yeah but again, I'll refer you to what I said before: Eternal Wings ends with the dawn of a brand new world, but we went ahead and looped around back to the sky nations for a second time instead of exploring that new world.
>What the hell did you expect?
Nothing. You aren't listening. The problem is that they chose to make a prequel in the first place. Of course being a retread is inevitable when you choose to be a prequel.

I tried it once and couldn't get into the card combat

epic spoiler dude ;)

There's nothing wrong with the fact that they made a prequel. They managed to make it fresh even given the fact that worlds were reused. On top of that they gave us some great new locations to explore. If you really liked Eternal Wings that much, then you wouldn't mind seeing some of these locations one more time, in a new light, played in a new way. It takes everything we loved about the original, and breathes new life into it. There is nothing wrong with that at all. Why the fuck would I not want to go back to Mintaka? I loved that town.

>It takes everything we loved about the original
>and breathes new life into it.
No. It fucking clumsily wrenches every defining and unique gameplay and world mechanic and replaces it with nothing.

Sorry user. You might have a point if the game itself hadn't been mangled too, but the original was defined by all it's various magnus based mechanics and the followup removed an upsettingly large amount of them for no valid reason.

Motoi Sakuraba best soundtracks and no one will ever know because no one played this game.

youtube.com/watch?v=_B64f48ewdo
best vidya music

Is that Sagi Verde?

Nothing was mangled. It took everything from the first game and streamlined it, including the battle system. You may not like the changes but they're objectively for the better.

One of the best plot twists in vidya.

>and why hasn't it gotten a sequel or remake?

It literally got a prequel, if you cared enough about the game you would know.

>Nothing was mangled.
The first game was all about cards. You built decks of cards for each party member, each card was unique and had a identity and flavor to it through the art and names. You captured items and carried them around cards around for quest purposes, with this mechanic sometimes enhancing and adding to the main dungeon design. You bought cards for healing outside of battles and to wear as armor You used cards with other cards to create new cards. cards could age and change over time, some even taking most of a playthrough to reach their final form. cards could vary based on spirit number.

The sequel fucking gutted everything. I'm sorry user, just because it's arguably more "streamlined" doesn't fucking change the fact that it's fundamentally neutering and removing the defining feature of the first game. Baten Kaitos is a really unique game about cards. Origins is a by the numbers JRPG set in the same universe.

>tfw I actually loved the cheesy ass english dub

It's still about the cards, I don't know where you're getting this shit from, but the cards play a huge fucking part in the battle system. The battle system is simply faster and more streamlined. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean it was mangled.

>the cards play a huge fucking part in the battle system.
Except there's no spirit combos [this is huge] all the unique weapons and items got replaced by "Melee III" and shit, magnus no longer age or change with time at all, you can't combine them to create new things, there's no camp magnus anymore and you only manage one deck that the whole party shares.

completely agree'd. I can see what they were trying to do, by streamlining & speeding up fights, they were trying to make battles more exciting. But it failed super hard because they ended up taking out everything that made the first games combat system interesting.

One of my favorite parts about the first games combat was how it evolved over the course of the game. At the start, it was very slow paced and you could only pull off small basic combos. But by the end of it you were doing massive chains of hits and the pacing was kicked up to 11. It felt like they were trying to emulate the later pacing of the first game without letting the player earn it by progression.

>It felt like they were trying to emulate the later pacing of the first game without letting the player earn it by progression.
That was one of their design goals. I recall the Nintendo Power interview quite clearly. They wanted to try and pick up the pace in the new game where the first game left off. That's part of why the random encounters are designed to be stiffer.

There's still unique attacks like apotheosis, the stacking system, relay combos, and there is literally nothing wrong with the group sharing a deck. You can discard what you're using, reorganize it in-battle, instead of having to waste a turn drawing a bunch of cards you can't use. It was annoying as fuck having to sift through a bunch of shit you couldn't use. And magnus is still affected by time to a certain degree. The cards do still play a part. Yes, the rng factor is not as heavy as in the first game, but it's still there, and you can get unlucky and simply not have the magnus you need at certain points. But it's much, much less tedious because you're not sitting there drawing a bunch of magnus you simply can't use.

>Origins didn't shit all over the combat system

>sitting there drawing a bunch of magnus you simply can't use.
IF this happened to you, it's your fault for building your deck wrong. I'm serious here user.

I can see why the did what they did when making the second game, because apparently brainlets can't even begin to into deck building.

Doesn't matter how well you build your deck, you're going to be drawing ones you can't use, this is not something you can completely avoid no matter how well you set it up. You can get unlucky and have a bunch of healing items show up when you don't need them, and don't tell me you go into battle without healing items because you're full of shit if you do. You cannot tell me you fought Malpercio without any. Discard simply cut out this annoying middle man that made battles more of a slog.

>Winglets

When will they learn?

>you're going to be drawing ones you can't use,
No, not necessarily. Your deck should be 70-80% attack cards. there are nuances like finisher attacks and elemental balances to consider too though, and that's part of the appeal. You should be cycling away cards you don't want at every opportunity. You'd get laughed out of /tg/ user. Deck building matters a lot and you're clearly not somebody who understands that. All I can give you is that it's a fault of the game for not teaching the player better/proper deck building habits somehow.

Yeah, its obvious that's what they were going for. But like I said, they failed hard (imo) because they removed all the interesting parts in the process.
There isn't anything wrong with the pacing being fast at the beginning, but the core issue with the prequel is that they got scissor-happy with features & aspects that made the original great.

I suppose it all works out in the end though. People who prefer a very streamlined experience have the prequel. & people who prefer a deeper system with more intricacies & flavor have the first game.

It's a shame the series hasn't continued yet. We can hope, but I bet we'll see another Xenoblade Chronicle or spinoff because Nintendo will probably just want to grow their "Xeno" brand.

I very, very much preferred Origins mechanics to the original game. The combat overall was just a lot better and I enjoyed the pacing and challenge relative to the first game. The random encounters felt like they mattered more and I enjoyed the boss fights a lot more on average as well. I also like RPGs with smaller parties, part of the reason I don't care for FF6 is that there are too many fucking party members.

its like you pointed the problems with the first game and not the second one

>>I can see why the did what they did when making the second game, because apparently brainlets can't even begin to into deck building.
You're basically saying that pro magic players that get mana flooded on occasion are to blame for running lands at all.