How long do you think a day/night cycle should be in a survival game?

How long do you think a day/night cycle should be in a survival game?

youtu.be/8yytpOTxo98

I'd say 2 hours for day and 2 hours for night. Maybe 1 hour each if the game is more fast paced.

Night should never last for more than 30 minutes, its honestly just irritating to not be able to see shit.

usually day time last like an hour and half that for night time

28 minutes

true, though not all nights will be pitch black

I believe the day/night cycle in Rust is 45 minutes for day, 15 for night, which makes sense because night in Rust is so fucking dark you literally can't see in front of your face. Kind of like night in real life when it isn't a full moon and there aren't any street lights.

Also, isn't the survival genre fucking dead? Why the fuck is someone wasting their time developing another survival game?

>2 hours for day and 2 hours for night.
Brainlet
In what part of the world are the days and nights the exact same length?

pitch black is god tier as long as the player has a source of light

Go the simulation route in terms of the length of light/dark period, depending on latitude and time of year

As for real-time duration of a day, an hour or two seems reasonable enough.

Current titles in the genre suck, yes. That has nothing to do with me

You could also spend the night, you know, sleeping

Close to the equator, in environments such as this map
there will be light sources but not everyone will necessarily have one

nah it's online multiplayer

open world with crafting?

That is something that entirely depends on the game
What a dumb question

No plans for crafting. I can't foresee a use for it, it just adds a grind. Nothing about it is difficult, challenging or meaningful. It works for some games but not this

maybe in skyrim where death has no consequence but in a rust clone its just a (sometimes crippling) annoyance.

Oh, so you're the creator of this game?

So, tell me, how are you going to deal with 14 year olds running around killing everyone in sight? How are you going to deal with gigantic clans running servers and ruining the game for everyone else? What are you going to give players to do besides roam around the world and shoot each other? What is the goal of the game besides "survive"? What are the consequences for dying? Why should I play this survival game over the tons of others that have been being actively developed for YEARS and still haven't released? How are you going to deal with a bunch of dickheads camping outside of your base for over an hour, making the game unplayable?

>So, tell me, how are you going to deal with 14 year olds running around killing everyone in sight? How are you going to deal with gigantic clans running servers and ruining the game for everyone else? What are you going to give players to do besides roam around the world and shoot each other? What is the goal of the game besides "survive"? What are the consequences for dying? Why should I play this survival game over the tons of others that have been being actively developed for YEARS and still haven't released? How are you going to deal with a bunch of dickheads camping outside of your base for over an hour, making the game unplayable?
Is this from you personal experience?

bruh forget all that shit, how about the fact that in all rust clones you play basically one day with some buds and all your progress is gone the next day because of hypertoddlers with tnt.

Okay, if there is no crafting in the game, you're just supposed to find everything out in the world? Then what makes the loot meaningful? Why shouldn't I just find guns and go kill every single person I see for their guns? Couldn't I just go play a Battle Royal game like PUBG?

Yes, this is literally from my personal experience playing Rust over the last weekend.

Gigantic clans who can play 24/7 run basically every single server, they get the first bases up, the camp all of the monuments that good loot spawns, and you have no chance of taking them down unless you're also a massive clan with the resources. These clans consist mostly of 14 year olds who have no empathy for other people, especially not older people with fucking jobs.

In Rust, there isn't any end goal, so all you can do is get weapons to go fight people with in the open world. There is no reason to work together with other people because it's so easy to stab each other in the back, and voice chat is proximity and you can't tell who people are from a distance. Even if someone seems like a cool guy or is naked with no resources, they could still just be relaying your location to some guys in Discord for them to come fuck you up.

In Rust there are no consequences for dying besides losing the stuff that you have on you, this means if you are low on food and completely naked, you can just suicide to start over.

A group of 14 year olds with no empathy camped outside our base for literally over an hour and didn't let us leave, which made the game unplayable and literally quit to go play something else.

The game balance (loot table, AI spawn rates and behavior) will be geared towards making reckless play styles more dangerous and difficult, as they would be in real life. Player healing times and weapon scarcity will play a big part in this.
The whole game is geared towards PvE so there will be plenty to do besides shoot other players. PvP will still occur of course, but it will be an afterthought to initial survival (aside from incessant griefers but they will struggle).
The consequences for dying are self explanatory.
Why should you play this game? I haven't said you should, I don't know what kind of games you like. Where this game might sit above others is (1) Game engine (2) visual quality (3) gameplay balance and mechanics.
>Base campers - there are no bases

Probably some pretty good life lessons that you learned there user. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

Because it's not an empty world where you can easily walk in anywhere you want and freely take loot as you please. Gunfire will attract a lot of unwanted attention and healing isn't instant so constant combat will take its toll on you. To do what you describe would be exceedingly difficult. Also a free roaming sandbox PUBG is not.

>These clans consist mostly of 14 year olds who have no empathy for other people, especially not older people with fucking jobs.
To clarify on this point a little. I understand that people who have more time to dedicate to a game should be rewarded and it's understandable. If I don't have as much time to play the game as other people, I shouldn't be able to make as much progress as those people, but it's still super annoying that because I didn't get a base down within 10 minutes of the server starting (because it wipes while I'm at work) I am basically fucked unless I get super lucky.
Also this. You can offline raid people so easily, because if you are asleep, the raiders have infinite time to gather resources to fuck your base. No mega base is offline defendable from someone who has infinite time and resources to go hit enough rocks to blow your shit up. You just have to hope no one finds your base, and no one finds it enticing enough to raid.

and that is why basebuilding is survival game cancer.

>Gunfire will attract a lot of unwanted attention
This is exactly what it's like in Rust too. I don't see how this is even a point.
>To do what you describe would be exceedingly difficult
Walking around the world and picking up guns? Are you going to make there be AI NPCs like wolves or zombies or something to stop players?
>Also a free roaming sandbox PUBG is not.
"Free roaming sandbox" basically is code for, "There is nothing to do, so make your own fun!" and without anything to do, players will quickly just take to killing each other on sight. Do you have any incentive for players to work together and not just kill each other for their loot?
Okay, but what are you supposed to do if you don't build a base? I haven't played many survival games besides Rust. If you don't have a base, it seems like you'd just kill people on sight even more because there isn't a frame of reference or anything to do besides kill people and get loot.

Are those trees from that free snow scene UE4 project?

I want to create them in SpeedTree, but I don't know where to find proper textures and how to add snow on them.

That's why it's best in mass multiplayer survival games to have no safe storage, no bases and no spawn return points.

Sounds like you really, really need to try more games than just Rust bro...

Okay then, but the loot you get doesn't matter then. You would lose it as soon as you log off. I'm serious, if it's a "survival" game, what are you supposed to do? What is the goal of this game you're trying to create? What am I supposed to work for and what is my... forgive the pun... ENDGAME?

>not 24 hour cycle depending on what time of day you play
Anything else is dogshit.

No, you keep what your player has on you, you just don't have a place to horde gear. Hording hear is what makes death meaningless because you just wake up in base, access a chest and restock. When all you have is what you have with you, you value your life.

>forgive the pun... ENDGAME
Why do you think that's the title? :P

The goal of sandbox survival games is simply to survive. Different people find different ways meaningful and entertaining, that's what is great about the genre. Exploration, looting, shooting, hunting, offroading. I can't tell you what you will enjoy

none lol! you make your own fun, why should dev hab to baby u lol?! u make ur own fun u entitled milenial now give him your money xddd

hording gear*

to clarify, yes as a dev it is my responsibility to create an environment that is interesting and challenging. How you choose to interact with the world is up to you.

Wasn't this the initial purpose of DayZ tho? Because when you died you lost all your shit and you couldn't just simply quit the game and come back another time because it would forfeit said gear.

I dunno, man. I just can't fathom why I would want to play a survival game like this and I have 800+ hours in Rust. I enjoyed Rust for the interesting social interactions I would have with other players, but this stopped when I found out that everyone just kills each other on sight without saying a word. There is no incentive for random people to work together when there is loot that they can get for killing people.

With that out of the way, the reason I enjoy Rust is for the interesting PVP encounters that come from some people having the advantage over others. Taking down people who have revolvers while you have bows is interesting and rewarding. Just running around a world with no base and shooting at each other with guns you just found and losing that when you log off just seems boring to me. It doesn't sound like there's anything to do.

What do you want the average player to experience when booting up this game and playing to the point when they're done? Sorry if I am being mean to you, but I just want a game that I can enjoy and a lot of indie developers aren't critical of their own vision.
>The goal of sandbox survival games is simply to survive
But the easiest way to "survive" is to literally sit still and have a stockpile of food on you. Like holy shit "survive" is the objective in every videogame, idiot.
Also this. Unfortunately, I used to like sandbox games, but when players find out the most optimal way to play (shoot on sight) the entire "sandbox" element is kind of ruined. Especially if there isn't even base building, so you can't set up a shop, hotel or SAW inspired trap base to have fun.

I believe when the DayZ mod didn't save your gear that was merely a technical shortfall, not an intentional game design aspect.

I agree, in most if not all current survival games there is no incentive to work together. PvP is fun, and this game allows PvP, it just simply isn't the only thing to do.

You would have to attain said stockpile of food, forcing you to engage in other aspects of the game.

KOS or shoot on sight is not the optimal way to play this game.

>The goal of sandbox survival games is simply to survive. Different people find different ways meaningful and entertaining

yes and, there are people who draw like this then say its their """art style""", congratulations. you now identify with this type of person by subscribing to their methodology when creating content with no meaning while using personal preference as an excuse for laziness as you cannot come up with any meaning beyond,

I dunno, uh you just uh, survive lol, like as long as you can untill you die.

look at all this meaningless garbage you can look at while doing nothing! you can... talk to people! no other game lets you do that!

Real time you fucking casuals.

>KOS or shoot on sight is not the optimal way to play this game.
BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS?! Do you have TONS of people playing the game right now? I bet that the developers of Rust, DayZ, Ark and H1Z1 felt that the optimal way to play the game wasn't shoot on sight either until people started fucking doing it.

I can't think of what you could possibly do to make shooting people on sight not rewarding unless you limited player freedom to not allow PVP. It's going to fucking happen.

Seriously, tell me right fucking NOW how "KOS or shoot on sight" will not be the optimal way to play the game. How are you going to incentivize strangers to work together?

Realtime for where?

You know in saying that its not the most optima way to play the meta will change to KOS being the aim of the game right? Pretty much every survival game with multiplayer turns into a free for all shitfest, every game has gone down that way. DayZ, Rust, 7DTD, ARK and a laundry list of other titles all fall the same way. PvP is fun always has been, always will be.

Wherever the game is set, of course.

It doesn't sound like you'll enjoy survival games. They aren't for everyone.

tbf they are pretty much for no-life autists with time to burn desu. I'm looking at you ARK

Of course PvP is fun, I enjoy it too. There's a difference between it being fun/possible and being the only thing to do and ridiculously easy. Most of those games you mentioned barely have any AI threat, hence players turn to PvP as the primary challenge.

Ignorant retard

>no-life autists
yeh well it's a video game, so...

So, you think having AI animals being a threat to the player will deincentivize killing on sight? Wouldn't people just deal with the aggressive AI and also if they see a player, kill them too? Also, I haven't played ARK but doesn't that game have dangerous aggressive AI too?

>using koolas free tree
>watching a youtube tutorial for day and night use of color curves
>already making Sup Forums threads to idea guy a bunch of ideas and show off his one hour of progress
>not making his survival game two years ago
Not gonna make it.
Not gonna make it.

I'm just saying since the user above with a job complained about being shat on by said autists. Not all games attract them but the survival genre reels them in like flies to shit desu. Anything that discourages them from playing is a good thing for everyone.

ARK is a completely different environment. Suffice it to say not all games are the same just because they're survival games.
In ARK you create weapons from resources gathered from the map, this can be done anywhere, so players can simply isolate themselves from AI hotspots. This can't be compared to having to enter an AI infested town/village etc in order to collect loot.

>So, you think having AI animals being a threat to the player will deincentivize killing on sight?

Yes, the game will be geared to make such behavior counter-productive

You underestimate the sheer power of autsim desu, they will find a way to shit on your barriers. Its been done so many times before.

>Yes, the game will be geared to make such behavior counter-productive
Okay, but how? I don't get why having to fight difficult AI would make me also not want to kill other players for their shit or especially work together with strangers. I can't think of a single reason I would trust anyone to get close enough with me to talk when we both have guns and can easily shoot each other.

actually no, I love survival games when they're done right,

Don't starve is an incredibly good example of a good survival game and Don't starve together is a great example of how to turn an already solid experience into a great multiplayer experience.

the devs meticulously planned out at every and stage of the player progressing and surviving with new challenges that require different resources and knowledge of how the game works to actually survive. just when you think you have one problem solved another presents itself to replace it and is almost always just as dire as the last.

first you need food, okay you got food so what okay here comes winter, try not to freeze to death, oh whats that your crops won't grow cause its mid winter and on top of that a giant moose is tearing apart your camp? the environment actually poses a threat and idle hands will kill you just as quickly as human error.

these fucking stupid dayz wannabees piss me off to no end because its blatant the devs who work on them have no fucking clue what makes a "survival" game

Dwarf fortress, cataclysm, and fuck even zomboid end up providing more depth and actual content than these shits because they devs of these games dare to ask what the player will do when he's sitting on an endless pile of meat and water to fill his two bars up.

but no, survival game is lololol i pvp u xddd

For real, man. We've been burned so many times before by other survival games. These "Sandbox" multiplayer games are just that. They're sandboxes that allow players to play anyway they want, and how the game is played is determined by the community.

As soon as one person kills on sight, EVERYONE does in fear that they will be killed on sight first.

I'm a gamer, I know how it works. Players can play however they want. Whether they flourish is up to the game design.

Yes and so far nothing in your game design is directing the players to play the game how you want them to, which is to not kill each other on sight.

>As soon as one person kills on sight, EVERYONE does in fear that they will be killed on sight first.
Rust was pretty funny when the playerbase started dividing themselves based on their randomly chosen gender, height and skin color desu. Rounding up all the women, shooting the blacks etc. Shits funny as fuck.

I'm keen to get my counter-autism on.

that sun has horrible lighting, looks like dusk the entire day

about half

that's just fog dude...

If you actually want to make a good game, you need to take a hard critical look at the various games that populate this genre before you progress any further. Having these things be multiplayer based is a fucking death sentence, if only because of the type of player that they inevitably attract. No matter what your intentions going into this are, hordes of unbearable faggots will flock to it and turn it into a resource hording, base building, fort raiding simulator as the many groups of faggots attack each other non-stop.

Single player survival experiences are a pretty untapped market, outside of The Long Dark I can't really think of one.

generally in video game a full 24 hour period is broken down into 72 minutes. That means each hour in game is only 3 minutes in real life

as in whatever length the day is, the night should be half that length ?

Sounds like a fucking blast. I wish I could have experienced it, but unfortunately, there is no going back.

I even tried to open a store and people instantly came up and started pickaxing the roof because LMAO EPIC RAID KIDD SEE U IN MY FRAG VIDEO

day should be 10 minutes, night should be 4 minutes. that's the most realistic.

no.

day sould be 1.2 seconds night should be .9 seconds.

yea that's what I meant.

Those are my instincts also - I had 4 hour day, 2 hour night in mind. It's always good to get differing opinions though

Real time.

Just set the game in Finland during winter.

You haven't seen the game design, soooo...

Sounds like you already know what you want to do.

>Calling others brainlets when you don't know that yourself
lmaoing @ your life

Not really, that's just what I'm accustomed to. People here have overwhelmingly suggested a much shorter cycle.

20 minutes day 7,5 minutes night but make that shit pitch black. Doesnt matter what game or genre, if you bother making a night, make it black and scary with different mobs and events otherwise there is no point in adding cycles in the first place

Well I look forward to showing you how

Hey, I remember you from that gore thread!
yikes, my interest lowered immensely, is there any single-player aspect to it?

>No being on a planet in a binary system
>Not being on a tidally locked planet where the sun never moves

Zomboid was fucking great when it was in alpha and had a different pixel artstyle. The combat was better, the map was smaller and semi static so you could plan your adventure and shit got out of hand pretty quick thanks to more zombies in one tiny space that was the map. It didnt had clip issues or a shitty mascot noone asked for. No shitty crafting mechanics either where you could build a fort. It was just you, the resources you could gather up until that point and the constant fear of asshole zombies somehow spotting you through a nonbarricaded window. This game is so fucking shit now i dont even know how he managed to fuck it up with every update. Really sad

is it possible to go back

Maybe the dev offers earlier builds (i still higly doubt the demo version of pz is still available) or maybe the pirate bay. i remember playing it when that one indie platform still existed before greenlight on steam was a thing. It was the game that actually got me into survival genre and minecraft. What a shame ill never be not bitter about all these desciosions. Im 87% sure its reddits fault and that they should die in a liquid bomb attack for ruining one of my favorite games

>Spess Engine will never have the budget of Star Citizen
>mfw all these endless possibilities lost because cucks keep giving money to conmen

yeh there'll be private servers

Yeh the night will be very dark. I'm trying to upload a pic but for some reason it's failing

If it is going to be very dark you dont want it to last more than 10 minutes. You want tension build up via sunset and seom escalations here and there without completely unnerve the player so he drops the game. I consider myself a vet but even darkwoods nights, which are very intense, felt quite to long albeit being only around 5 minutes long. If survival is your main selling point, you really want the nights being intense and sunrise being a relieve and an opportunity to gather materials. Cycles are the most important thing to balance since all the other mechanics erruipt from balancing around these cycles. Its really not just aesthetics but a serious gameplay mechanics. Consuklt darkwood for a really good surv horror game whcih does the cycle balancing quite well (albeit oo limited since you cant really survive nights outside of your savehouse)

*or it getting too booring or resource intensive. 5-7,5 minutes can be an eternity

1-2 minutes per hour

No wait the other way around. 0.5-1 hour ingame in 1-2 minute realtime

...

Nice to know brainlet posters are consistently retards.

Every region can have a 50/50 split depending on the time of year. Equator just has a less significant deviation between seasons.

yeh I meant to say close to the poles but you're right, 6am sunrise and 6pm sunset is common

so many people in this thread

Dying Light had a good cycle. An hour for day, about 10 minutes for night. It doesn't seem a lot, but night is pitch black and the enemies are powerful.

it should use your console or PC's clock to determine the time. if you want to play during the day then you have to play during the day.