Would you play an MMORPG with permadeath, Sup Forums? No...

Would you play an MMORPG with permadeath, Sup Forums? No, not the usual gimmicks like reincarnating into a "new" character with the same exact stats sfter you die or having a replenishable number of lives, I mean real permadeath. Oh yeah, also free PvP.

No, that's just fucking retarded.

eve still exists and it features full permadeath.

if you haven't got really expensive insurance

(ie your character is new and doesn't fly a massive cruiser etc tech'd up to the nines and isn't supported by grinder miners en masse to make you gorrilions of dosh to ay for everything)

then when you get suicide ganked by a retard in his (comparitively cheap) corvette he's just gone off and bought specifically to run it as a suicide ship, because he IS space rich and CAN afford it

when he kills your ship and then kills your escape pod, YOU DIE, full stop, BECAUSE FUCK YOU, THAT'S WHY, HOW DARE YOU TRY AND PLAY A GAME EVER.

>would you play an MMORPG

NO

>would you play

NO

You keep your character you mong, that's just like losing your inventory.

If it was not made by blizzard yes. A game like that would need to be more skill focused like dark souls then wow.

Yes, I do vanilla wow ironman with a warrior, you should try it but keep in mind that you can get raped so easily at every moment not only by faggots but also by fucking mobs.

if it featured significantly less grind than most MMOs, sure
otherwise, fuck no

This

>online game with permadeath
enjoy your lag spike deaths

I'm literally playing EVE right now and you don't really know what you're talking about.

The worst is losing implants or maybe strategic cruiser skills if you're flying a T3. Dying is really not a big deal at all.

permadeath with pvp would be just a complete shit show
no one would play it aside from a few autists

Fuck free PvP. Charge full game prize for each new character. Are you hardcore enough?

DLC: The MMO
Only for the most hardcore.

I would, yea, but not with PvP. I find PvP in most MMOs to be aids, and if they have to balance around PvE and PvP, at least one inevitably ends up being absolute garbage.

Realm of the Mad God did this, and I wanted to like it but it was just really poorly made. Something like that, made by competent developers, would be pretty great. Thought about doing it myself, just not sure I have the time.

It just wouldn't work. Eventually groups would conspire to kill everyone not in the groups, and the pop would whittle away into nothing. You'd get stuff like new players logging in for the first time and immediately dying to some rogue guy hiding next to the spawn.

The only way it would work is if you started with a brand new, unrelated character (which is apparently a gimmick, but I've only seen it like twice in my life).

And this kids is why early access survival games die

It really is. These games can work but are just so dependant on people not being douchebags for no reason. Just doesn't happen.

>eve still exists and it features full permadeath.

you literally just lose your ship
you keep your character, your skills, your posessions, everything that wasnt on the ship you lost

I would if the whole game was designed around it - with expectancy that PCs will die and every new playthrough will add something new - for example, maybe you unlock talents that will be available to all new characters on your account. + some amount of randomization in the world so you are not forced to do the same zone/dungeon time after time.
So you feel excitement and desire to replay instead of frustration after death.

Full pvp and permadeath, but the fall shouldn't be too big at any point. More important should be losing land to an invader, but it can always be taken back.

Numbers should always trump quality at one point.

Was thinking about it, it would be great. Just a basic MMO model thrown into a full planet generated from google maps bullshit or whatever.
Just have people exploring it, with no map etc just a compass and directions towards hotspots of loot.
PvP would be mostly avoidable if you just dick around in the middle of nowhere, but you'd never be completely safe.
Give people something permanent they can build up, like a homestead or something comfy in a safe zone to use as your stash and give you a sense of progression.
SWG style camping where you play music/dance and eat or whatever, plan the next move and talk shit. Good times.

Too bad i have no talent or monies, i'd begin making it today. Pic unrelated.

Pretty hardcore, especially if you are playing on pvp server.

I already do, it's PoE. There's no pvp tho.

Of course and it has 5k+ people which is not possible on a blizzard server.

PoE has something neat, but i lose interest once my character starts to get good gear. I think D2 nostalgia ruined me for other games in the genre.
As stupid as PvP was in D2 it was still fun, especially in HC because of the gamble. That alone kept me playing for a long time.

>no one mentioned Haven and Hearth
newfags

>trial and error game with permadeath

Only if it's REAL permadeath, as in if you die the game blocks account and your IP address and never lets you play again. If you try to log on it'll just be a black screen.

HC Ironman OSRS?

T. Casual redditor

no, I don't want to waste my time

Yeah.
Roguelites are on a good way of making permanent death valuable by unlocking new content or starting options.
That's a good way to do permadeath imo.

In many online games the permadeath makes playing the game even worthwhile.
All those "strategy browsergames" based on tribal wars do that, but most of them are turned to shit by relying on being carried by whales aka p2w.

The game doesn't have to feature full permadeath to create this point of interest. It's sometimes good enough to make the loss just hurt, but not discourage to play on.

Haven&Hearth would immediately improve if they introduced lifespans on characters so there wouldn't be infinite stat bloat.

No, because there's no way to guarantee that desync or other server issues won't occur. The level of community backlash if the servers fuck up for even a few minutes would be so intense that it would kill any attempt to make this a reality outside of a handful of indie projects like Never trust game developers to do their job properly.

This is also true. I'd go back if this were the case.

No, that's fucking retarded. You may think it's a cool concept, but it's not. Nobody except a select few deluded autists would unironically enjoy this.

>online with permadeath
But cheating or exploiting could be really fun, also please add a mandatory webcam feature, I want to see those hundreds or thousands of playtime hours concentrating in never ending tears.

You can't have perma and free pvp nowadays and also have a solid fanbase to sustain the game.

It will not happen. There will be a group of renegades who go around killing new players nonstop and the population/fanbase has no chance to grow at all whatsoever because those people will always be around now. And if you police them, it ruins the purpose of making the perma/free pvp game to begin with.

Yes I love permadeath.

I want Ultima Online reimagined with semi-current graphics.

PoE is not a fucking MMO.

That would be stupid. MMORPG are long terms game.

>do raid and die because of retards
>lose character
nice, sounds fun

You're right, it's completely retarded
But it's so retarded that I would legit want to play and see how it goes

Well, I obviously wouldn't play just any game with permadeath, but it is a workable concept, at least for sandbox MMOs.

For example, in certain types of game civilian professions can have high half life even if you could in principle be murdered at any moment, and even most soldiers may survive battles as losing fight turns to a rout before the lesser force is annihilated. Moreover, there can be mechanics in play that make starting over less of an issue, such as new characters being capable adults who can start participating in relevant activities from the beginning. Or suppose you didn't spawn as a nobody but would instead assume a position of a random NPC or inherit the position of a deceased player (minus taxes and all). You can also have mechanics like earning more points to be used in character creation.

Personally, if a game like "Mount and Blade Online" existed, I certainly wouldn't mind pursuing some comparatively safe civilian activities like trying to become a renowned blacksmith, or trying to survive as a mercenary always ready to jump ship if things turn foul (I would imagine that most players would be happy to accept the surrender of high-end characters and recruit them on the spot, or take them as a hostage if they're members of wealthy guilds). In such a game becoming a character of note would really mean something, and in the end, starting over wouldn't be too bad.

It's not exactly the same thing but it kind of exists in the form of all those survival games on steam. They are a shit show.

You can do PvP permadeath but it needs dignity, not chaos and nigger gangs.

H&H already exists for me bruh.

It is tho

>a game is an MMO if it's multiplayer and has many players
That's really watering down the term "MMO" because it can be applied to any multiplayer game then. It's like calling any multiplayer game where there's PvP a moba. Stop acting like you don't get it.

Rumor is that the (canceled) VtM MMO was supposed to have permadeath.

Combined with your character getting much, much stronger the longer you play, it was supposed to accurately simulate vampire politics, where low level neonates are basically slaves to the old ones until they can sneak and murder their way up the ranks.

No, because it would suck nuts for a number of reason:
1. MMOs have shit combat/gameplay, and Diablo does too.
2. If it was a dyed-in-the-wool MMO, tons of situations would arise where no amount of skill could possibly save you due to how combat works.
3. Diablo only worked with permadeath because it's piss easy.

The only way I would play a permadeath RPG would be something like Dark Souls Online or some shit, where you can actually save your own ass.

>t. someone that's never actually played eve

Why the fuck would you just make a post stating facts about a game you've obviously never even played?

Would just lead to people who change their IPs to being supreme.

only if it's actually balanced to make sense instead of having people as strong as Havel but you can't be that strong even if you've slain a million Dragons or NPC phantoms who are ridiculously durable. Shit, if the player had the stats and gear of one of those phantoms or Havel the game would be easier than Kirby even with permadeath.

>Dark Souls Online
>permadeath

modern H&H does not have permadeath
modern H&H rewards you for dying

Well the credos make death a lot less punishing. It still sucks though. Once they fix the satiation and hunger level system death will actually mean resetting back a few weeks instead of a couple hours.

Dark Souls is perfect for a "slow burn" permadeath, you give a few lives to simulate hollowing:
>Die once and become undead (NPCs behave differently).
>Die twice to become hollow (most NPCs attack on site except for firekeepers and your covenant leader).
>Die a third time and can only spawn as a Dark Spirit Invader (all NPCs attack on site).
>Die a 4th time and delet.
>Humanity restores you one level and you no longer have a humanity counter.
>Automatically absorbed from bosses and Dark Spirits, cannot be farmed from mobs or purchased.
Sounds great.

>jorb or loftie actually fixing the satiation or hunger level system
lmao

yeah it's sad, devs finally gave in to carebears, the new combat system is shit and there's probably not gonna be any games similar to old Haven/Salem in the future

The term still works here. What you're looking for specifically are probably "open world MMORPGs" which don'c sum up all of the MMO games out there, especially with the properties described in the OP

>devs complain that combat is nothing but running and drinking
>2 years later
>combat is again nothing but running and drinking
>but now the combat is more shit too
>oh yeah and nidbanes lmao
great stuff 10/10 I'm eagerly waiting for that furry H&H porn MMO ripoff just for the combat

PoE is an APRG not an MMO

Just because it has multiplayer doesn't make it an MMO. Or are you gonna say Diablo 2 is an MMO?

What matters is the scale of players ivolved. You can team up with anyone from a playerbase that's bigger than most MMORPGs out there.

What matters is how many you can have on screen at one time, and whether the world's persistent. In an MMO it's hundreds or thousands in a common world. In D2 and PoE it's like 8 people in a server you create.

PoE is not an MMO by any metric.

>What matters is how many you can have on screen at one time

Said no one ever. That was never a metric by which MMORPGs went by.

So is Diablo 2 an MMO or not?

Not an MMORPG, because that implies it comes with all of the trappings that make that entire genre absolute trash. Otherwise fuck yes.

No, because the instanced sever you're playing on can't hold "massive" amounts of players. Besides mutiplayer was ever just an aditional game mode for that game.

m&b warband 200 vs 200 server is mmo

Sorta? In a sense it is.

>that combat is nothing but running and drinking
It may have looked retarded but it actually had a pretty deep meta behind it and required a certain level of skill, especially if we're talking pre w7 combat.

"Additional" is subjective, all the years I played D2 I only played multiplayer and never played singleplayer.

PoE party is up to 6. That's even less than D2.

Not sure if you're being facetious or not, but there are mods of M&B with factions, diplomacy, economies and crafting which would certainly qualify.

A fucking staring contest can have deep meta and require a level of skill if you and a friend have literally nothing else to do for a month m8.

>PoE party is up to 6
Sure, but you have access to and interact with many more than that on a constant basis.

running did not have a deep meta
there was quite a few cool concepts that revolved around movement combat, but running was certainly not anything near complex or skill required, and all it required for you was that your inventory was full of buckets, a flask of some sort and potentially high energy food so you wouldn't die of starvation in your 10 hour runs

"Constant basis" isn't good enough, it needs to be simultaneous.

Again, the same applies to Diablo 2. Declare if Diablo 2 is an MMO or not, and if not, what is the distinction?

This thread is a grim reminder that Sup Forums is not qualified to discuss video games let alone make them

No, no I wouldn't, sounds like pure masochism and frustration and that's coming from a person that likes classic roguelikes.

Told you already, the distinction is how many players are ther on a server at the same time. Even in WoW you team up and play with small groups despite there being thousands besides you.

No, i would lose my shit

There was an MMO that was "in development" fucking ages ago that read about once that was going to implement this. Can't recall the name though so not sure if it was vapor or ended up releasing without that certain piece of the puzzle.

It was described as having permanent character death. As in you died, your body hit the ground with all your loot for someone to take, or not. Certain choice items would be available to your next character IF they were left in your bank (It was explained as hand me downs from previous family generations). The catch here was the killer. If you killed another player character you would receive a bounty on your head. If you did it within line of sight of a guard in an area that cared, they would attack you. The more kills the higher the bounty. Any player could collect this bounty by killing you and killing a player with a bounty did not count as a negative toward you. There was a bounty board available in all towns that listed the players, their current bounty, and the last time they were online. Most area NPCs would kill PCs with a bounty on sight. The idea was to make the life of a player killer very difficult, but also a valid form of play.

I was super excited about this plan and wanted very much to play this game. Never happened.

I don't even know what point you're trying to make, or if you're even the same person. Yes or no, D2, PoE, MMO's or not?

Nah. Too many faggots and kids will get me killed.

Not him, but clone levels used to be a thing. They were phased out a few years ago. A good while back, if you didn't keep your clone up to date and you got podded, you could lose tens of millions of skill points. We're talking might as well have a fresh toon kind of loss. It's true you only lose the ship, fit, cargo and implants, in terms of material loss, but it used to be a LOT worse.

I've told you already before that yes - PoE is an MMO, D2 wasn't an mmo and YES, they're simmilar in the way how their multiplayer works HOWEVER D2 multiplayer is a largely scaled down version of it in comparison and simplified by much.

Scaling something down and simplifying it wouldn't change it's GENRE. Checkers and chess are both board games.

PoE is Multiplayer and Online but it is not MASSIVE. You play with at most a handful of people. Is Dark Souls an MMO? Is EU4? Is Left4Dead?

Just because there's multiplayer doesn't automatically make it an MMO.

The MASSIVE part of the equation is JUST and ONLY the scale of it.

Are you trolling or are you having mental problems?

>The MASSIVE part of the equation is JUST and ONLY the scale of it.

Can you reword that in a way that makes sense to people whose brains haven't been deformed by anime?

Dunno ma, I'm at a loss here because you seem to sidestep logic like a pro.

How would you know when you haven't even used any?

If PoE isn't an MMO than neither is Guild Wars 1. You can have dozens of people in a town hub at once in PoE and play with up to 6 at a time. Not much different than guild wars.

D2- multiplayer rpg, it's multiplayer elements and interactions are simplistic and on a small scale

PoE-multiplayer rpg, it's multiplayer elements and interactions are far more complex and on a much bigger scale

One is an MASSIVELY multiplayer online RPG, the other is not.

MORPG vs MMORPG

Do I have to draw a graph as well?

bajate del caballo amiguito
boludazo, gordo papitas

Yeah, try drawing me a graph where 6 people is a more massive number than 8.

the difference is that those 8 are all you're going to see during your session unless someone else joins you from THE LOBBY

That's not the case in the other example.

I honestly don't know if you're talking about D2 or PoE because they both work exactly the same. Which makes sense because they're the same genre; online ARPG's.

PoE doesn't have a lobby, it has hub towns. Like guild wars 1 did or DDO. Both which are MMORPGs. (incidentally DDO has the same team size of 6 during questing)

I rest my case

Would explain the e-celeb threads.