heres something i dont understand
why would someone play a game that allows you to boost to the max level instantly?
doesnt that defeat the entire purpose of a mmorpg and grinding to get levels and stuff
what in the literal fuck?
a game where you can pay them to get to the end of the game isnt a game.......
why would someone play this shit
You're retarded if you think level 100 is where a WoW character ends, it's where it starts
That’s not the max level.
Some people have more then one character. When your playing a MMO you dont really wanna replay the story on a ALT which purpose is to be a ALT,
ya but why would you defeat the purpose of playing a mmorpg
does runescape say
BOOST TO LEVEL 100
YOU WILL GET 26 MORE LEVELS TO DO FOR YOURSELF
no. that would be a fucking retarded game that doesnt make any sense
so youre lazy?
in old school games if you made a new account you had to play through it all again
Because leveling a character for 12th time is so enjoyable, right?
You would think so right?
Here's the catch, modern WoW has got the split backwards.
It's 10% leveling, 90% endgame now. Actually 5 and 95.
yes leveling is supposed to be the main point of a mmorpg
if you remove it then you dont have a game
For many people; endgame is where the game starts because that's where the build you work on shines.
The leveling process is meaningless and a waste of time.
"endgame" whats the point of even having a leveling system then just make it a non mmorpg without levels
and make everyone the same power as 100 or whatever
how is this a game that makes sense
you have lvl 2 wolves sitting there nobody will ever touch
It's really only fun to level a character up once. Then it becomes repetitive.
And you only get the freedom to build a character however you want at max level.
Well I mean, the other option is to just stock up account bound gear and smash your face through random dungeons and not learn shit anyway.
nobody ever said runescape was too repetitive because you have to level for so long you little faggot
if this is endgame the game then why dont they just remove the mmorpg parts and make it a regular online game without any of that other stuff
remove it all. have whatever your stupid end game is in a standalone client where everyone is the same level
Leveling has been broken for years. So why not charge people to skip the slog? Because blizzdrones are dumb enough to pay it.
Fix it? PFFFFFFFT. Nothing can be remotely challenging for the newest generation of ultra shitters. We are talking about kids raised on regenerating health and quest arrows.
Thank satan classic is returning.
Raiding, PvP, topping the leaderboard in a given category.
For some people its the journey, for some its the finish line.
Point being, its trying to appease both kinds of people. Except that after a while, the majority of people will sit on their hands with multiple max level characters and nothing to do with them. Thus, a ton of endgame content.
And that's also why RP servers exist.
>nobody ever said runescape was too repetitive because you have to level for so long you little faggot
But everyone says that.
so youre a bunch of degenerate fucks
you have no reward of gaining the max level on your own like a game is supposed to be
>Raiding, PvP, topping the leaderboard in a given category.
whats the point when everyone is the same level instantly
why would i choose to go kill a raid in WoW when i didnt even have to work for my character and i have nothing invested
you would rather play league of legends which is actualyl made for battling people
not this weird mix of things that makes no sense
The levels are simply a relic of the past, wow changed for better or worse. Leveling was part of the journey and something that people bought the game for, but now nobody buys the game to level up.
Things are not better or worse just because they are different from the past
It has to do with RPGs. Those games used to be a virtual version of D&D and seeing your character grow was the most important thing. Now the most important thing is raiding.
>Reddit spacing
>raiding
whats the point of raiding you can kill monsters in literally any other game in the world
go play skyrim or whatever the fuck kids are playing nowadays
you can kill monsters in any other game
why would you choose to do it on a weird hybrid game that literally doesnt provide anything better
but leaves you with a confusing history of what once was a game
>why why why why why why why why
Why don't you stop being such a fucking whining faggot and go play a game you like instead of complaining about a game you don't?
Go to bed, kid.
because i want you to know how retarded you are for playing a mmorpg that lets you boost to almost the max level
ive never heard of a mmorpg that allows that\
that would be called hacking
Why does a game have to do things one particular way you autistic ESL spaz?
the game starts at the beginning of the latest expansion
This is WoW's eternal flaw
mmos honestly become boring when / around you hit level cap
hasn't wow """content""" just been doing increasingly dumb gimmick dungeons ad nauseam until you get your 0.02% drop sword that'll be made garbage with the next update
Its not always instant, just a service. And the gearing is part of the process. But since its only accessible at a given level, the rest is worthless trash not even worth trading.
Again, some people like to level, some people don't. It makes sense when WoW has been going on for such a long time, many people have dropped it, come back to make a new character when something new releases, then drop it again. They just want to get into what interests them. And Blizz is a service provider, they lend a helping hand. Not for free, of course
There's really not much to it. Blizz offers a service, shortcuts for those who want them, and opportunities to enjoy the game as you want.
Doing it with other people, and having engaging encounters. I don’t even play wow anymore but surely you must realize that raids are far more fun than fucking Skyrim out of all the games you could choose
Also some people just like wows combat style and that is something that only ffxiv offers as far as I know
>wah wah wah I want 12 alts
>blizz plz remove lvling kthxbye
One of the many main reasond retail is shit
>he doesn't know exp boosts exist in thousands of games including single player ones
lmaoing at ur life
Generally in older MMOs the leveling process was used to teach you how to play your class as well as force you to mingle with the other players on your server and build up a community.
Modern MMOs don't really have this as the games are mostly single player and even at endgame you just follow button rotations so there isn't anything to teach. While it does go against what a MMO should be about it really doesn't matter in WoW if you boost to 100 or whatever, people will be bad at the game either way.
No other MMO has as much content as WoW does at this point
I started playing in Cata back when levelling was still kinda a thing and it was a bit frustrating having to spend two months grinding through old content just to get to a point where I could do things with my mates. I enjoyed it at the same time, but now that there's three more expansions on top of that it really is too much for new players.
The game is too broad. The adventure of getting from 1-60 meant you would see a lot of other players as the number of zones and dungeons was relatively few so you would be able to experience a lot of it together.
Players are too spread out now and the only way to keep them together is in the 100-110 bracket as that's current content.
>yes leveling is supposed to be the main point of a mmorpg
No, it isn't.
>intentionally being dense
>does runescape say
>BOOST TO LEVEL 100
>YOU WILL GET 26 MORE LEVELS TO DO FOR YOURSELF
yes, it's called treasure hunter
Runescape and WoW are two very different games. Comparing them is pointless.
>when u realize blizz will sell instant boosts to 50 when classic serves come out
>The leveling process is meaningless and a waste of time.
Thats just the result of bad game design.
because its a sloppy mess of a game
its like me going on grand theft auto to play checkers
to go on WoW to pvp or kill monsters thats not the intended platform for doing that
a mmorpg is all about leveling up and getting somewhere
when everyone has everything it defeats the games genre purpose.
maybe people keep dropping it because they lost focus and its not a recognizable game but a sloppy mess like ive been pointing out
and giving people free level 100 isnt going to help
>nd opportunities to enjoy the game as you want.
you cant enjoy a mmorpg when youre given free end game
that makes no sense
i dont play video games so i dont know what game would be best for having fun killing monsters
but it certainly isnt wow
that combat system actually is incredibly shit when you actually compare it to what exists
no they dont
they have exp weekend where you can level a little faster
but those also hurt the game
and cause inflation of levels
actually leveling IS a mmorpg
its not about teaching
you sound like a WoW cuck.
Leveling is just not to the taste of most modern gamers. You are not better because you like how things were in the past, you are just nostalgic.
To be fair to him it was, during the early mmos. Unless you were a hardcore player you didn’t care too much about endgame.
Leveling a new character fresh for the fun of just blowing through shit with OP heirlooms. I did a 5 level stint without them and I still raced through zones getting gray quests before finishing their story. Dungeons also give almost 1-2 levels each with the quests.
It all leads to this really weird rushed experience where nothing makes sense and feel like you're being pressured to move along to the next attraction.
It's not really enjoyable.
This is the flaw of modern "mmo"s.
They are glorified single player games with optional multiplayer built for instant gratification. The rpg is all but removed from wow. The only thing left to stand out with is your clothes and titles.
>making everything that isn't the brand new content irrelevant with catch up mechanics.
You sound SALTY dude
Like, seriously you gotta chill my man
then what's the point of wow?
what entertaining gameplay does wow have
...
You do realize that all Blizzard has ever done is cater to trends, right? All Blizzard games were trendy, why are you surprised that they doing what their modern audience wants?
>Unless you were a hardcore player you didn’t care too much about endgame.
WoW endgame was unique to it and only subsequent mmo's tried to follow and replicate it.
The mmo's that WoW was based off had raiding as an afterthought tho world building, with perhaps the most notable exception being late luclin era EQ.
It's just a shift in target audience. Instead of having a living world, the more mainstream audience wanted concrete goals and clear paths to achieve them.
>why does this game do things in a way I don't like
The game starts then because you still have to find the gear, do the relevant quests to obtain what you need, and do the endgame content that relies on having the proper gear to do it all over again.
There's a game during which you level, and there's a game during which you seek a certain sort of satisfaction. WoW does both, for better or worse.
To each their own, and all that.
Now I'll stop responding to you bait.
You are wasting your time friend. These people don't understand the concept of effort for reward.
because blizzard games didn't used to be hyper casualed piles of dreck and polish (or lack of polish, in wow's case)
warcraft was such a robust game that the people who liked it made a mod for it that has unfortunately become one of the biggest genres in video games, one they've even tried to capitalize on themselves
meanwhile look at the amount of things a player has control over in overwatch
Exactly. Again, this is because earlier MMOs were a digital extension of tabletop RPGs and their audience cared about the world and growing as a character. Players back then even used to only have one main and self insert as them. This streamlining has only continued during the years, and now wow is a completely different name under the same name. Tabletop RPG players are not the audience anymore, it is normal people. They don’t give a shit about the things that early MMO players cared about
well no its not about me not liking it
its about you guys being retarded and playing a game that makes no sense
why the fuck would i want to play a game that you do a few quests and then do their ""end game"""?
the end game isnt fun if you arent like one of the only people with access to it
you are literally shooting a dragon and nobody gives a shit
OMG U KILLED THE BLIZZARD DRAGON, BTW HERES ANOTHER 5 MILLION PEOPLE WHO ARE ALSO DOING THE SAME EXACT THING
XD THIS IS FUN
Wow is not polished? Kill your self my man, I can’t stand modern wow for other reasons but polish and attention to details is one thing that wow has never lacked
Literally not a person on planet earth who doesn't find runescape leveling boring who doesn't have autism. People level so they can access pvp, bosses and minigames, and get a cloak and feel cooler than other people.
Blizzard game designers used to be fucking amazingly talented passionate people.
Now it feel's like anyone left designing games for them is either terrible at their job or tied down with some bullshit marketing research telling them to remove certain mechanics cause testers will bitch about it or something.
> People level so they can access pvp, bosses and minigames, and get a cloak and feel cooler than other people.
and these things are only cool because you are one of the few who has the good stats to kill everyone or to kill that boss
if you could log on and get instantly 99 everything nobody would care that you can kill that boss
and nobody would want to do it
why would i kill bandos when everyone else can kill bandos
it becomes the same as killing a cow
I agree, MMOs should get rid of the leveling phase because it's boring and pointless.
Mythic raiding is the hardest it's been in years and the top guilds are complaining about it
You’re not necessarily wrong. Your mistake is thinking that everyone else ought to enjoy the same things as you, which is false
Every single expansion has damaged the leveling part of WoW to the point where it is actually unplayable.
There is zero challenge, zero communication and nothing matters at all. because of it there is no reason to play it so skipping it to the 'real content' which is raids is the only way to actually 'play' WoW.
Thats why everyone is shitting their pants over Classic. It actually offers something other MMOs dont which is a good leveling experience. The only reason people still play WoW is because its got more generic raids than any other MMO.
Just consider this. When leveling in WoW you start at level 1 (excluding DKs and DHs) in whatever zone is relevant to your race. You'll spend the first 10 or so levels in that zone and within a two hours even without heirlooms it'll be time to head to the next zone and so on and so forth. You will struggle to see more than a few players in each and if anyone was typing in general chat it would be nothing short of a miracle. Within 14 hours you'll be level 60. You then head back in time to Outland and then Northrend and step forward back to Cataclysm. That 60-80 gap will last 10 hours and once again you'll probably see no one. You'll barely be able to blink as the Cataclysm and Pandaria experiences go down within 5 hours in total. You'll go through a heavily instanced scenario to access Draenor which features a heavily instanced garrison. With little effort you'll hit level 100 by gathering treasure chests.
Finally at level 100 you will start noticing people as everyone is forced to level any one of the Legion zones.
Point is the leveling experience is an absolute clusterfuck which features at least 95 zones and 50 odd dungeons. Unless you knew someone else who was going to level with you it is very unlikely you'd talk to a soul throughout this entire process. It is simply a means to finally get to the actual MMO. WoW is far too fucking large and needs a reset to zero.
raiding as an endgame is a design trap that WoW put itself in. MMOs are not synonymous with raiding. The fact that raiding is used as a crutch for content direction is only evidence of a lack of any proper direction by the development team.
If WoW was meant to be a raiding game then it does not need to be an MMO.
even if people claim runescape leveling is boring the reason why they are still playing is because of the grind
and it still causes people to keep playing and get addicted even if they say that leveling sucks
its the hard work that actually makes it satisfying even though it kinda sucks while youre doing it
you dont get it.
exactly and thats why this game is shit
thats all im pointing out
quote my op it says "why the fuck would someone play this shit"
The game evolved, the players themselves decided that they wanted more focus on raiding. Yes a new game from scratch would most likely trivialize leveling completely, like Divinity does. But they can’t change that part of the game without remaking the game from scratch
The mechanics I was thinking of were things like threat management, not having arrows pointing you where to go, hunter ammo ect. The more they listen to the most vocal people then the more dumbed down and stupider the game will get. It's why the game went to shit to begin with. Steady removing of social interaction by making the game more convenient. Turns out killing the dragon feels like nothing when anyone can do it effortlessly.
>top guilds are complaining about it
Yea, those complaints are due to self-imposed problems of wanting to maintain 6 fully geared alts with BIS gear and split farming for 14 hours a day.
Their only valid complaints are buggy broken fights like how Mythic KJ was for the first 2 weeks of guilds getting to him.
I worry for classic if they nerf EXP required to level. Wow had the right balance, you would stay around in a zone long enough to meet people. If you hated it (STV) you had other options.
well then thats bad design then if everyone ditches a huge part of the game
and its completely dead most places
so stop defending WoW
you absolute cuck
a new player cant even play wow anymore its not even possible
Here's an idea:
If the idea of an RPG is couched on the idea of player choice in their character's growth - then how the heck does raiding fit into that?
They're intrinsically at odds. One wants the player to make decisions based on the player's the desires. The other requires you to base your decisions on what maximizes the benefit towards an objective shared across dozens of other players.
>quote my op it says "why the fuck would someone play this shit"
And you were given answers. Answers that you don't like, but still answers.
>so stop defending WoW
I wasn't. Are you retarded?
well then people will move on to a different game
you dont take a game down a path and just leave the original vision
because you wont have anything resembling a game left
>the players themselves decided that they wanted more focus on raiding
No they didnt.
Blizzard assumed that all players wanted the same thing, therefore they could look at the final 5% of players who were finished and raiding and assume all other players (once they got to that point) would also love doing nothing but raiding. From that small fraction of the player base they decided to create every single update and expansion around that and thats how you end up with modern WoW, a fucking mess of a game where only the most recent content matters.
The players didnt pick raiding, Blizzard did. Also there was a poll here the other day that proved barely anyone gives a shit about raids.
...
True. What people posting on this thread can’t understand is that what they believe makes a good mmo is not what modern gamers believe that makes a good mmo. They are living in the past and they feel superior because of that. There is no wrong or right, they are simply different ways of approaching mmos
They cant, raids were the worst thing to ever happen to MMOs.
>There is no wrong or right, they are simply different ways of approaching mmos
actually there is a right and a wrong
mmoRPG must contain rpg elements
>They are living in the past
no theyre right considering nobody likes wow anymore
even the biggest fans of it have jumped ship
stop being dumb
Instead of leveling alone barely meeting anyone in the old zones, you will level alone seeing other people leveling or doing max level stuff in the new zones.
>mmoRPG must contain rpg elements
RPG nowadays only means stats and inventory. Just like dark souls is called an rpg even though there is absolutely no role playing in it.
>yes leveling is supposed to be the main point of a mmorpg
do you have a single fact to back that up?
Role Playing Game
YOU ARE RETARDED
Levelling was never the 'main point' of an mmo in the past is was so hard it server as a barrier to entry to endgame via attrition.
Seeing as I know this is just someone who never played to 60 in vanilla shit posting let me explain.
Just because you only levelled a hunter to 35 with your friends after school then stopped playing when halo 2 came out and hence only remembered levelling doesn't mean that was the main point of vanilla.
In spite of what neo/v/ will tell you levelling in vanilla didn't take *months* the average was two weeks, my pb was 8 days and I'm pretty sure the world record was inside a week.
As to why boosts exists in retail,
-'Old content' is trivial now even before heirlooms'. Leveleing through zanagamarsh for the 2Xth time alone with as the equivalent of what would be a level 40ish character in TBC means most of the time its a one button kill per mob.
2. People tend to 'jump on' during expansions and expecting a new player who only joined at their friends request to level through 110 levels of trivial, empty content is a good way to not get them to play.
Raiding is an integral part of any RPG in the sense that every group is built on the quest for loot and fame.
Minmaxing has been a thing forever, and performance of a given build has been as well.
The rest is RP, and not everyone is into it.
The biggest mistake WoW does is the power creep. And even that is a logical conclusion of the design.
The whole allure of mmos to begin with was being able to play with a lot of other players.
It wasn't like diablo 2 where you can just play singleplayer instances and hook up with others when you strictly choose to. Running by someone or seeing someone on the same quest as you should be common and a focus of the game design.
Otherwise whats the fucking point of it being an MMO if theres no server community?
I can gather friends and form teams in other multiplayer games so raiding adds nothing to the table here.
MMO's should cater to their strengths, lots of players consistently interacting with one another.
Some people are too dumb to press I press Join Queue and press w and 1 occasionally for hours while watching Netflix.
Or you can just skip the w+1 part altogether by pressing H and Join Queue instead.
leveling is what a mmo is
even though it was with an end goal in mind
it still is what keeps people playing and addicted to work hard to get something not everyone can have
ok go play teletubbies wwith your stats and inventory where everyone is level 1000 in the beginning
no progression just killing the final boss over and over
its based on progression and without progression you have no incentive to play
>i dont play video games
Thread over, you're just some mongoloid whinging about things you do not understand as you have not experienced them.
>Sup Forums a playerbase that despite shitting on everything about WoW since TBC (despite clearly never playing TBC or vanillla live). Were the primary group to start begging for QoL/balance changes on the classic servers.
Even fucking plebbit didn't want that.
>Turn out to be massive casuals
Colour me shocked.
what i do understand is when i played runescape they didnt ask me if i wanted to level to level 100 so i can play the final 26 levels for myself
thats not a video game
What the hell is happening on this thread?
This thread will probably be capped and archived so others can look back and laugh at you in the future
People are taking the bait, hard.
Can't tell if dumb or chum prob both
It's actually really simple.
People know that if you want to have a big mmo cock, you gotta be an end game, high ilvl raider, this can be achieved by playing the game and learning along the way, or you can throw some dollars are the game, skip to the end and reap the rewards.
Then only allow people to boost if you have a max-level character by the time you purchase the expansion, Or have the boost unlock as soon as you have a character reach max.
The Boost should be a thing for Alts, Not people just starting out their Main, Its difficult enough to play with people who don't know their class, Let alone people not even familiar how the game plays.
how does that give you a big cock when literally everyone has the same thing you have
when everyone is a big level raider it makes it equivalent of killing level 2 cows
>Minmaxing has been a thing forever
True, but in WoW there was hardly any "min" component to it. You weren't sacrificing anything to build your character to be raid ready. You were only building your character in a correct fashion.
With minmaxing there's a decision to accept being terrible at something to be especially good at something else. In WoW, it's simply be good at your role or be not as good.
I don't think it's simply RP at that point
You don't see the uses of the feature because you haven't played the game and have fuck all understanding of RPGs. people have explained them to you but you aren't taking anything in.