How to fix loot boxes

Easy.

Make every game that allows a player to spend real world currency on loot boxes have an AO rating.

Minors shouldn't be gambling.

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Buy me the KEY

The esrb has spoken and it's not happening

>“ESRB does not consider loot boxes to be gambling,” said an ESRB spokesperson in an e-mail to Kotaku. ... According to the ESRB's criteria, “Real Gambling” is any sort of wagering involving real cash, while “Simulated Gambling” means that the “player can gamble without betting or wagering real cash or currency.”

The ESRB has no real power.
Also, the Dutch and Belgian governments have started an investigation about whether or not it's gambling.

If it's deemed to be actual gambling then it may warrant an AO rating, which would kill any mainstream game.

Devs will have to actually try and make a game fun to shift units.
I can't wait!

Outside of america games are rated 18+ and that doesn't stop kids from owning them

Lootboxes aren't gambling. First of all you can receive them for free, secondly you get something every time. By your logic Kinder eggs are gambling, too, because you don't know what's inside. Better give those Kinder eggs an 18 rating and only sell them in liquor stores anymore, or ban them altogether.

That's a very unique way to say "Cash Shop", user.

>Minors shouldn't be gambling

Where are all these kids getting money to gamble with? Oh that's right their parents, how about you take it up with them first

You can't compare them like that. The context for loot boxes and kinder eggs are completely different. Millions of kids around the world can't just mindlessly buy kinder eggs whenever they want as long as they have their parents CC information.

There's always a loop hole, just look at what Blizzard did with overwatch loot boxes
in china to get around their laws.

I'm pretty sure grabbing a tenner out of dad's wallet is easier than getting his credit card details. Do Americans not have PIN codes?

You don't need a pin to use a credit card on a game or the google play store. The CC company could block the transaction if they think it's malicious, but that's it.

What a load of shit credit cards are then, fully deserved.

How many games have to be banned in foreign countries before people learn that an industry created watchdog group isn't a watchdog group?

What did they do?

on Xbox live and PSN if there's any unauthorized transaction your account gets banned, so you could steal your parents credit card but it's very easy for them to see the transaction and cancel it.

Asking millions of people to have personal responsibility in a product you made? No seriously, it's on game developers to idiot proof games. Which makes it even more predatory when they make games the way EA does, with micro-transactions openly selectable from normal menus.

At the very least it could become "toxic" enough that even normies shit all over it

>consolefags

You fucking nonce you don't need the pin to have your card on your PSN/XBL/Steam account in the UK either.

Fucking retard, why the fuck act like you're superior when you don't even know what the fuck you're on about?

steam bans you if you chargeback or cancel a payment too

The fuck should I know, I buy Paysafe cards to charge my Steam wallet.

China made it so all games are required to tell the customer the winning odds of the stuff inside loot boxes, so blizzard got around this buy just selling currency instead of loot boxes.

Ah yes Mr Denton

Consider getting a CC, user. It helps build credit. Just never use it unless you have to.

Telling rates doesn't change anything though. Japan and Korea are listing rate for all their Gachas and yet Gacha games are the most profitable ever there.

People don't give a fuck if you tell them that rate are 0.02%, they'll still gamble away because they are addicted. As simple as that.

But that's still very similar to a casino except you can't cash out and get a shitty cosmetic or something out of it.

Oh shit man, I guess I'm not gambling when I go to a casino since I exchange money for chips.

You have not even the basic understanding of human psychology and gambling. Gambling at a young age fucks kids brains up and rewires it for that risk/reward system.

>except you can't cash out
That's the main thing which prevent all Gacha mechanics to be considered gambling. Not being able to cash out.

So it's like buying chips at a casino then?
The only argument is that you're not capable of getting money in return for your "investment."

T H I S

fuck off retard. we dont need reddit tier regulations on games, we just need to destroy any company that dares to add pay to win lootbox shit or even any type of lootbox in a full priced game.

Basically China wanted to make laws on lootboxes, forcing companies to tell the chance percentage to the customers or even stopping selling them whatsoever.
What Blizzard did was change the system so now you don't buy lootboxes in OW, you just buy a really small amount of currency and lootboxes are just a "bonus" to it.

>Asking millions of people to have personal responsibility. No seriously, it's on game developers to idiot proof games.

Morally it's bad sure, but they have no obligation to hand hold people and coddle them so they don't make dumb decisions.

You'll never see a casino's give warning after warning to some fool who's taking out his entire paycheck. People need to take responsibility for themselves and stop expecting others to do it for them.

We're not blind drones for credit scores where I live. I already have a debit card. I just prefer to avoid traces if it takes little effort.

I don't get it, user. But people just keep coming to my casino for these chips I've been making

Telling rates should still be required by law though.
Fuck the anti-regulation people that are so opposed even such simple levels of regulation. How anti-consumer can you be?

>we just need to destroy any company
And you can do that by slapping an AO rating on their next AAA game.

you dont need credit, i went to a morgage advisor and they told me that because of how much money i have in my bank account already they see me as trustworthy despite credit check coming up as me not existing

never had credit

>By your logic Kinder eggs are gambling
I mean, they pretty much are. They're an incredibly low-stakes, low-level form of gambling, one with heavily restricted, always "positive" stakes, but they're still a game of chance. Just like loot boxes, honestly.

This basically.

Meanwhile in Japan they advertise Medal Games to children heavily there. It's literally like a Casino/Pachinko Parlor, except in an Amusement Arcade and there's also no way to cash out. But outside that all mechanics are 100% the same. Kids are encouraged to play now, they made non-smoking area especially for families too.

Its gambling period.
We are transitioning a gray zone where its free for all to grab and little kids to be hooked up on this gambling bullshit.
Colorful screens were always used to attract people,just look at poker and fruit machines.
This thing needs to stop,if people want to gamble so be it but make sure you enforce +18 ESRB rating like any other gambling form.
I am surprised how casinos don't come after these guys considering that they are stealing their business and don't pay tax for it.

because kids give two fucking shits about an adult rating. this place is for adults and kids run rampant.

>Without betting or wagering real cash
You literally pay real money for roulette wheel loot boxes. Does ESRB even bother with learning about these games?

>Does ESRB even bother with learning about these games?
Not when they're pressured by the large game publishers to keep the money train going.

ESRB just announced that they are charging now twice for physical copises,once from the developer abd once from the retailer that will sell the item.
So in order to age restrict game you will ply twice.
They are in this as much as EA,everyone is doing shady shit.

Regulations are useful if they lead to comportemental changes. In case of gacha, telling rates has proven to have an opposite effect.

If you're told that the rate for a specific character is 1%, you fail let's say 150 times (bad luck, it happens), you'll keep gambling just because "well it's 1%, and I'm technically at 150 tries, so it'll probably come soon!". Since rates have been displayed in Japan more money have been spent on Gacha Games, go figure.

The only way to properly change people's behavior is to restrict payment methods in order to access gacha. Also force for ID verification (copy of passport/ID card required in order to allow an account to Gacha). That way children wouldn't be able to do that and even adults would have to realize that they are about to gamble.

Displaying rates won't protect minors and won't make people gamble less.

youtube.com/watch?v=u6oXvdPtnRs
Totally not gambling guys! See pachinko is so totally not in any way shape or form gambling! Loot boxes are the same!
Just look at how this isn't gambling whatsoever!

People are going to buy loot boxes regardless of what the odds are, but people are going to put developers on the hot seat and ask questions every time they try and pull a fast one, i.e a new event/item comes out and all of a sudden winning odds get significantly low. It would kill the customers trust with the company/developer.

It would dissuade the developer from trying to nickle and dime their customers, and if they still want to do it then they're going to face the blow back from their customers.

Right now they can just get their cake and eat it too.

Jesus Christ fucking auto correct

NO... NONONONONONOOOO YOU CAN'T DO THIS
I *NEED* MY BOXES, DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

>but people are going to put developers on the hot seat and ask questions every time they try and pull a fast one,
They don't because they are addicted like drug users goddammit, open your eyes. Bamco just fucked over millions of Japanese players on Dokkan Battle, they gave them $150 worth of in-game currency and people are now just talking about what they should roll instead.

Cygames did fuck over players in granblue fantasy, likewise, they issued refunds and apologized and then what? The game is still as profitable as ever and growing exponentially. The audience doesn't give a fuck, they're drug junkie. If you are caught fucking them up just give them more product.

Or just remove them.

Perhaps I am just in the minority. But growing up I remember a lot of games on the NES, SNES, and PS1 and whatever had simulated gambling in them. Like a lot of them had legitimate casinos replicated where you could bet your money or whatever that you amassed throughout the game. And of course you were more than likely to just lose all of it.

It just really turned me off gambling altogether. So I've never once felt the urge to try it in real life.
Losing virtual currency in my videogames as a wee little lad was all it took for me to never want to face such a thing in real life with real money.

The odds of gambling are so terribly abysmal that I can't really understand why anyone would want to continue after getting a taste of it. The premise might sound appealing to the inexperienced, but after getting a taste of it, and more importantly, suffered losses as a result. Shouldn't that just turn you off forever?
That doesn't really seem to be the case though. For a lot of people it seems to have the opposite effect or something. And I am not sure I'll ever be able to empathize with why.

As of currently they successfully managed to avoid international gambling laws and internet regulations on the subject.
Unless someone really goes for it and sue their ass they will remain.

There is no luck involved you idiot,the law states that any and all gambling machines need to pay out 33% of the daily earnings every day.
Its all calculated in advance.

>But growing up I remember a lot of games on the NES, SNES, and PS1 and whatever had simulated gambling in them
You're not wrong. That's a staple in a lot of older games. DQ comes to mind. But the difference is that those can be enjoyed with fictional currency only.

Take Borderlands 2 or the Diablo games, for example. Those are fine because you simply play the game to get the loot boxes. There's no option to pay to get them. That's how it should be.

Don't buy games with lootboxes wow that was hard.

>Millions of kids around the world can't just mindlessly buy kinder eggs whenever they want as long as they have their parents CC information
Yes they can.

>But the difference is that those can be enjoyed with fictional currency only.
Yeah I wasn't really complaining. Fictionally it worked. I was in no way trying to justify lootboxes or any such crap with how old games have had gambling too.

>The odds of gambling are so terribly abysmal
Do you live in a third world country or what? In most developed country odds when gambling aren't abysmal... Casino are forced to give back 85% of what they earn back to players in my country, that's for slot machines.

For Roulette it's 97.3%, Black Jack is 94.1%. That's regulated by the government. So no odds aren't terrible. Obviously for someone to win money, someone has to lose money. But that doesn't make it "terrible odds".

NOOOO you don't get it, NOBODY ELSE can be allowed to play games with lootboxes in them EVER!

>There is no luck involved

how is it gambling when chuck e cheeses exist?

>So no odds aren't terrible. Obviously for someone to win money, someone has to lose money. But that doesn't make it "terrible odds".
No it certainly fucking does. It's by design crafted so that the majority of the people lose money the majority of the time. It's why running a casino can even stay profitable at all.
Yes you might win. And yes you might lose and win some back. But if you go to a casino and you leave with more money than you entered with then you are one lucky ass mother fucker. It's like the fucking lottery.

Loot boxes in games essentially sets a new precedent. This goes beyond anything that's been done before and is actually, ironically, crippling games that would have been better without it.

How is there luck when the machine is set to pay out after exactly x amount of money played.
Even the percentage of payment is fixed.
Everyone is winning in that game except the player.
>give $100 - get $33 back
holy fuck what a luck

isnt it the same as chuck e cheeses tho

just playing the devils advocate I agree with you, never has pseudo gambling like this been so accessible and I hope governments look at things like lootboxes and mobile microtransactions more closely and tax their fucking asshole wide open

>Buy these at 5$ USD each, Hero has more chances than ever!
>Doesn't tell you that Hero has only 0.02% instead of 0.01%

Yeah, super legit. Better not regulate that.

And how exactly are you meant to have idea of when exactly the machines are about to pay out?
You don't, you simply don't.
And there are the card games. The moment you apply real world skill you're banned forever since counting cards is apparently illegal.

>not luck

Can you even read? How is 97.3% "terrible"? Yes you will ALWAYS have more chance to lose money otherwise the casino wouldn't be able to live on, but ODDS aren't terrible.

If I play single-zero wheel roulette and bet on Even or Odds, probability to win is 48.65%, so while it technically should be 50.00%, that's not terrible by any means. The casino needs to pay wages, a rent, taxes and so forth. So yes the casino will ALWAYS make profit in the long run, but odds are not terrible for players.

What's your suggestion otherwise dumbass? Run a casino where odds are exactly what they should be? Give 50.00% back if you bet on even or odds? Then how does the casino fucking run? With what money?

>casinos can not possibly meddle with machine payout which they own just like developers cant meddle with loot box game system they own
Woah dude.
Have you ever been in a casino?
Are you even old enough to know what the fuck a casino is?
Nothing is black and white,I pray for your naive soul.

>So yes the casino will ALWAYS make profit in the long run, but odds are not terrible for players.
Yes they always make a profit in the long run because it's by design made to leave the majority of the visitors losers the majority of the time with consistently poor odds. Which is terrible. The longer you expose yourself the worse the odds get. In other words the odds are terrible.

>What's your suggestion otherwise dumbass?
Nothing. I never said casinos need to change. They're run to make a profit. But the odds are fucking terrible for the people who go there. And people should just accept that.

>tax their fucking asshole wide open
This would be devastating if that happens. I honestly think it would make everything better for consumers.

>How to fix loot boxes
You fix them by removing them.

Anyone that supports them are cancer. There is nothing wrong with traditional unlock systems, lootboxes only exist to scam people out of their money.

KYS

gaming companies would have to focus on good game design instead of the best lootbox farms

Why contain it? Let it spill over into the schools and churches, let the credit card transactions pile up in the streets. In the end, they'll beg us to give them more lootboxes

Unless it's true that games are getting too expensive to make and they'll just find another way to keep people playing.

>increase game prices
>lock out all content in lootboxes

i dont believe that for a second, look at the thriving indie scene

They're fine as it is. In fact, they are actually too generous to the players.

The embodiment of evil

...

COMPLETE

BENIS

>Unless it's true that games are getting too expensive to make
It's not though. And no game developer has ever said it. It's some bullshit reasoning born on internet forums.

If you actually look at data and actually ask people in the industry. You'd come to the conclusion that it's the opposite.
And that's with inflation taken into account so don't you start that argument all over again.

I don’t care much for the lootcrated as I’m more concerned about the brash and invasive nature of Publishers.

If there’s any sort of regulations needed, it’s one that protects developers, big and small from being abused by publishers. Surely what EA has done for years should be reprehesible for forcing them into failure. Capitalism is meant to have risks and yet failure or success, EA comes out on top and never loses out.

And it’s not just them. Activision day in and out with their latest patent requests Is looking like a casino racket more than a company that specializes in advertisement and video game publishing

There needs to be action done to lessen the power of publishers. Frankly I think they’re redundant if indie games over the last year have made more of a name and good rep to them than companies with all the advantages and years on their side. Despite them being not needed to insure a games success, they still somehow are able to push the narrative out that they are important, that devs should work with them when in reality, they simply wreck the entire industry for their own benefit

Tim Schafer style management is the only thing i can think of that would make a game too expensive to make

where's Bobby Kotick when you need him

The ESRB is literally controlled by publishers. Of course they are going to benefit the companies and not the consumer.

>Don't open it. Whatever you do, do not open the Loot Box.

good post
you're absolutely right
but i dont know what can be done to stop it

>when you pay 5 bucks in hopes of rolling an antediluvian but get some C4 instead

ESRB is a private company and they are doing everything to cripple everyone that is not their founding member.
>ESA, including Capcom, Electronic Arts, Konami, Microsoft, Bandai Namco Entertainment, Nintendo, Sony Interactive Entertainment, Square Enix, Take-Two Interactive, Ubisoft and Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment.
Everyone else can suck a dick

You can both cash in and cash out for the chips from the casino. As it stands, you can buy virtual currency with real money from the company, but you can't do the opposite and cash out. That's the key and very important distinction. Also, you don't have to spend an additional dime for lootboxes as you can earn free in-game currency.

China doesn't care about the gamers. They want the numbers so they can collect their data and release their own homegrown version to earn the money themselves. Are people this ignorant of how China does things?

I think a big issue is a publisher's fiduciary duty to their respective stock holders. In some cases, like with EA, I can see them having no choice but to create loot boxes for fear of potential law suits.

Do you guys remember when video games used to be about the gameplay and nothing else?


Those days have gone

youtube.com/watch?v=d1FaP_c9H1w