Is this good?

is this good?

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No it fucks over arms dps royally. Parrying resets your swing timer

How many dumb motherfuckers exist that don't know how parry works?
if you parry something, your next attack is 40% faster, unless this would result in a reduction less than 20% of your swing time remaining.

I know you're trying to fit in, but can you please not talk about shit you don't know anything about.

i feel like parries have less value compared to blocks
dont you get like rage whenever you block shit on warriors? maybe the blocking talent is better

i remember back in the day i used to parry tank AQ40

same with my enhance shammy tank, rockbiter weapon gives threat you know

Blocks are partial, but stops most attacks from critting.
Parries block 100% of the damage no matter the attack and make your next attack faster
Take a wild guess which one is better

reminder there is literally nothing wrong with vanillia druid, paladin or shaman or the general design philosophy classes had in general and that instead of simply tweaking things they simply threw it all in the dumpster for a bunch of classes that do everything the same with different coats of paint

block also happens more often and is overall a less spiky and more predctable defense.

That being said, Warrs dominated every other tanks precisely due to their high parry % and the fact that block doesn't stop you from dying and taking a lot of damage from multiple hits in quick succession or just a fast boss during special multi-hit or attack-speed abilities/ phases.

i think i didnt word that properly
im just saying that the shield specialization talent has more value because on top of the additional block chance, it also gave rage on blocks
compare that to the deflection talent which only gave additional parry chance

but honestly i think the 5% crit in the fury is better than both

yeah because spamming frostbolt, shadow bolt and lightning bolt are diverse and interesting playstyles

It's good yeah can be useful for leveling but it's not mandatory to put in 5 points unless your prot. I would start putting points into imp rend now or level 19 at the latest because of Impale. Impale should be considered a mandatory arms spec talent.

SHUT UP

ITS MORE DIVERSE THAN EVERYONE HAVING LEGENDARY WEAPONS

>not using corruption on bosses
>not using fireball

the 5% crit talent is great, but I'm assuming the guy is leveling so he'll likely want to go down arms right away to get MS at 40 or just level as 2h fury which is surprisingly fun if you specc into improved slam and get your swing timers right (and the server isnt laggy)

>block also happens more often and is overall a less spiky and more predctable defense.
Blocks happen more often because your spamming the shit out of shield block in a raid setting.

>1vs1 with a rogue
>both very low
>he strikes
>(((((parry)))))
>my next strike kills him
cheesy as fuck, but brilliant when procs

I remember people always laughed at slam but it was actually a viable spec play correctly.

Slam is legit good but ONLY when specced into it and you have to realy pay attention and time your swings right
I also like it a lot because its sort of spammable so you have more imput than just heroic strike before 40 when leveling

Extra block is really only useful to a Warrior if they have just enough of it to reach 104% total avoidance with Shield Block up. Shield Block on its own will ensure you can reliably use Revenge, so you wouldn't want to accrue more for that purpose. High avoidance in general though deprives you of rage, so for many situations you'll be gearing for higher DPS and rage gen so that you can hold aggro better (particularly if you're on the Horde).

but if youre rushing to grab MS isnt it just better to grab the cheaper heroic strike cost or more rend damage?

but why invest on +%parry chance?
its not like you have a reactive spell to use whenever you aprry attacks

>rend

Warriors only managed to achieve as high a parry chance as they could due to having access to a wealth of class-exclusive gear stacked with defense, which was the only stat that could increase your parry chance aside from straight up +% parry. This had absolutely nothing to do with why they were so dominant, however.

but taste of blood procs and overpower crits were really good in vanilla!

Revenge/Overpower proc off of enemy parry/dodge.

>its not like you have a reactive spell whenever you parry attacks

In what way is spamming one spell because its the most effective (and only in raids, which weren't the only part of the game that mattered yet like nuwow) any different from what nuwow does where you ONLY have one spell to use anyway?

I'll tell you, you can fix the first one by changing mechanics to favor the other spells (getting rid of say, the debuff cap so warlocks can use dots), while the later is an irreparably shitty game

Vanillia wow had two defensive classes (warrior/priest), two DPS classes (rogue/mage) and two pet classes that do a bit of the first two and are good for soloing (hunter/warlock), having a niche for both phys and magic style characters and each of them having their own unique quirks and perks that make them want to interact with other players (lockpicking, summon items, buffs, warrior slow ass leveling without gear, ect ect)

It also had three hybrid classes, both factions had druid (base mode was a combination priest/mage with warrior/rogue alternate forms) and a faction specific "warrior mage" style character with priest (focused more on defense) and shaman (focused more on offense), as a follow up to being able to do a little bit of everything the 6 "main' classes can do, having extremely easy time leveling because they have zero downtime back when leveling solo was actually somewhat hard, being great at PVP or at least fighting off ganks without needing a minmax build and having godlike buffs that everyone wants, they weren't as good as the core classes in any specific role meaning they got passed up in hardcore raids

Meanwhile nuwow has all of the above classes plus 3 more that all behave more or less the same because everyone is now good at every role as long as they pick the right rigid spec for it and they only have like 4 moves anyway

one of these systems encourages people to work together in a world, the other is an overly elaborate version of DOTA

...

First, Paladin.

Paladins were stuck wearing Warrior off-gear after the usefulness of Deathbone ran out (fairly quickly at that). Though this still made them decently tanky, it offered nothing to offset their reliance on mana both to generate threat and, if they managed to reach it, maintain active crit/crushing immunity (hitting 104% with holy shield up was incredibly difficult for Paladins, a shitton of health is lost in the process of gearing for sheer avoidance). The lack of defensive cooldowns only seals the deal for them.

You would never stance dance just to use a shittier overpower.

but why
doesnt that only work on defensive stance?

is it really worth it go on a stance that drops your damage and some of your rage to use it?

It's called parry haste and not parry reset for a reason.
You're a moron who never tanked in vanilla.
Also a moron who never tanked in vanilla. Shield spec was fucking worthless, the only value it had was to get you 1 (ONE) point in imp shield block for the extra charge, which was the single most important point for defense. Try to figure out why.
This nigger gets it. Avoidance set and threat set. Try tanking a ZA sale run in sunwell avoidance gear.

If odd I roll Mage
If even I roll Shaman

>if you parry something, your next attack is 40% faster

I never said it was good i just felt user forget there is a literal reactive spell to getting a parry

Fucking this you nu-wow cunts. Leave vanilla alone

Troll Mage it is, then

>nuwow does where you ONLY have one spell to use anyway?

Swing timer

After a successful parry, the defender's "swing timer" is reduced by 40% of your weapon speed (or even reset), unless this would result in a reduction to less than 20% of your swing time remaining. This results in an average of .24 extra swings per parry; thus parry favors slower, higher damage weapons.[1]

The more you know.

dodged a bullet there

>Meanwhile nuwow has all of the above classes plus 3 more that all behave more or less the same because everyone is now good at every role as long as they pick the right rigid spec for it and they only have like 4 moves anyway
herp derp

I remember in BC this was a major thing with tanks needing to get to the hit cap to keep bosses from hitting multiple parries in a row.

How so?

Hit cap only affects miss rate.
Expertise would affect dodges and parry.

Expertise.

Second, Druid.

Druids are actually okay tanks and, if they know what they're doing, can work out in virtually any fight throughout Vanilla's endgame (though they don't really pick up until AQ40). Their gear is based around high stamina, and their main form of avoidance is dodge via agility, which naturally doubles as a potent offensive stat. As such, Druid tanks don't run into the issue that Warriors do with having to gear specifically for threat gen.

The method behind this madness is that their relatively low avoidance comes out of their innately high mitigation through armor as well as their gargantuan health pool. This massive health also acts as a buffer for when their inability to achieve crit immunity results in spikier damage; a Druid could probably still survive most bosses if every hit they sustained was an unfortunate crit. So while survivability is not an issue to Druids in the slightest, they can be a greater burden to their healer's mana, which is what makes them unsuitable as main tanks compared to Warriors who can sacrifice their threat gen for crit/crushing immunity at will, as well as having defensive cooldowns at their disposal to make up for their comparably lesser health.

>In what way is spamming one spell because its the most effective (and only in raids, which weren't the only part of the game that mattered yet like nuwow) any different from what nuwow does where you ONLY have one spell to use anyway?

icy-veins.com/wow/shadow-priest-pve-dps-rotation-cooldowns-abilities

Thanks

I keep forgetting expertise existed since been a half decade since it was gone.

What he means is it'll reduce the swing timer by 40%. If you parry at attack with 1.00 seconds left on your swing timer it'll be reduced to 0.60 seconds unless the swing timer is already 80%+ finished.

Someone remind me, Does Second Wind bullshit start in classic or TBC?

No my anger was because as it turns out, I've been a retard since vanilla and thought revenge was similar to overpower in that it was dependent on the enemy dodging, blocking, or parrying, after looking it up I've only just now realized that I've got brain problems

Second Wind was TBC.

I should also add that gearing them is a pain in the ass, which is one of the main reasons why you wouldn't want more than one Feral in your AQ/Naxx raid comp. The reason why you would want more than one, provided this weren't an issue, is that Cat DPS actually becomes pretty competitive, which is a huge deal for an offtank.

Get improved rend my man

That's fine, user.

Crush city on twin emps.
Huhuran enrage.
Maexxna enraged web wrap.
Resist fights (armor doesn't help mitigate a crushing/critical elemental hit, you can block elemental damage).
No interrupts (I was a backup as MT on KT.)
Taunt resists (backline 4h is fine, waiting won't wipe you).
They're worse but viable for most fights. Only thing they're outright better for is hateful strike soaking iirc, although they can't shield wall/LS for whatever reason (5%, other ot dying, etc.).

When Classic is released, should I go Beastmaster for faster leveling and less downtime, or MM/Survival to be better prepared for PvP? I have never played one before.

For what fucking purpose

improving rend

beastmastery is actually pretty great for pvp at lower levels
Be sure to get a cat, keep its skills up to date (google how to do so), send it in again a poor clothie and hit that bestial wrath once it gets to them and watch them squirm.
>yfw watching your pet solo a priest/warlock/mage in seconds

Yeah, they've got problems. I think they're a pretty well-designed tank class, but their downfall is how overwhelmingly good Warriors are.

>what nuwow does where you ONLY have one spell to use anyway?

dw and impale?

That's what I was thinking of doing, but I've heard mixed things on how BM was back in vanilla (mainly regarding pet pathfinding). Then again I guess it's a bit early to make assumptions about how Classic servers will work. Was thinking of rolling orc and then running up to Darkshore to get one of those black tigers, because fuck trying to camp The Rake on a fresh server.

corruption takes up debuff slots in vanilla.

There's a few good alternatives to the Rake
Lupos in Duskwood is pretty great since it deals shadow damage and the wolf howl is fun for big dick crits.
Pet path finding is mostly a problem on very early versions and private servers.

Do you think they'll keep Lupos' shadow damage on official servers? I always thought it was cool how there were unique pets with their own mechanical quirks, don't know why Blizzard eventually turned it into purely cosmetic differences.

What's the most useful healer for bgs in vanilla?

Of course. They've said it isn't a matter of what to change, just what patch to start at.

Depends entirely on the versions they'll be running. I hope they will keep the pets unique, makes those rare spawns even more interesting.

>don't know why Blizzard eventually turned it into purely cosmetic differences.
Blizard removed any and all skill upgrades that require players to actually go into the world and explore instead of being spoonfed shiny new buttons to push, same reason they removed warlock/shaman class quests

Paladins. Too much utility.
Sac, hoj, justice, cleanse, freedom, bop, bubble, conc aura, resist auras, etc.

>wholsome WoW thred

Is there anything sadder than a shaman vs paladin 1v1?
>purge
>purge
>earth shock the heal
>purging intensifies

Group coming up the wsg tunnel into a frost trap with entrapment.

holy pala vs holy pala

its a game of endurance

> don't know why Blizzard eventually turned it into purely cosmetic differences.
because they wanted people to use the pets they like instead of that one pet that is objectively the best for everyone

Anyways, last is Shamans.

They're roughly as good as Paladins overall, but while Pallies can be consistently mediocre by playing budget Warrior, Shamans operate more in terms of extremes. Amazing control through ranged burst threat on a short cooldown and various other utilities, and their mana issues are mitigated somewhat by Rockbiter Weapon. Mail armor is just past the threshold needed to be tanky enough with the full suite of raid and heal buffs, and the way they gear (mostly hunter pieces) gives them very high avoidance in addition to their potent threat gen. Talented Fire/Frost/Nature damage reduction makes them the biggest rival to Warriors in terms of resistance tanking for those elements.

The drawbacks are kind of obvious though. Without the high health a Druid has, they're liable to just get randomly smoked by some bosses if they get unlucky. They range from downright terrible (Broodlord, Twin Emps) to hilariously good (Vael, Skeram) depending on the encounter. Due to the gearing constraints Paladins face, Shamans are actually a lot better at main tanking, but neither could be considered particularly viable. Shaman probably wins out due to their tanking build being very close to the standard Enhance DPS, making it less of a commitment than bringing a Prot Paladin (if you were the kind of guild that would field memehance in the first place).

Anyways, that's all the non-Warrior tanks and why they suck.

>when they both have mana oil up and use seal and blessing of wisdom

Warlock doesn't really need a mention as SL tanking isn't a thing past 5-mans, and even then it's shit at gear level.

parry is worst stat for arms. you're not a tank, you're a dps. you should focus on getting your bleeds for maximum damage.

weak bait

When you are adventuring with other people you end up tanking tho

Beastmastery all the way, don't bother with MM/Surv whatsoever until you have BM filled as much as you want.

Hunters pets are OP as FUCK in low level pvp, you want to do everything you can to make it even stronger. Once you get bestial wrath at 40 you basically become unkillable until 60.

fetch quests are not the same as instances or elite quests. you will die as a arms tank. you should be focusing on damage instead of tanking so you can kill things before they kill you.

I will never understand the shiteaters that defend this cuck mentality of "In an optimal situation this is the most effective, so THROW EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE TRASH" when not only is the game easy enough 90% of the time that you don't need to be optimal, but before wow blizard made three insanely famous games (starcraft, diablo 2, warcraft 3) that were ENTIRELY based around balancing wildly different options so they were mostly on the same level as eachother, but suddenly with nuwow they are incapable of doing this again

I mean, I don't know much about this game, but I do know that arms warrior is DPS and parry cannot possibly help your DPS, so it seems bad.

It's good for soloing and doesn't hurt to have when tanking 5-mans.

Bro, if you have a shield or are an animal, you can tank 5-mans.

except hunter pets weren't like that
you had a pet that was the best for pve and one that was the best for pvp
there was no nuance "optimal situation required" to it, some pets had better stats than others

You die as arms regardless with the gear that questing can get you. Deflection helps with both tanking 5 mans (something expected of the warrior) and with questing (a good parry proc can save your life). It's a multi-purpose talent.

You could literally not spend any talent points and still tank 5 mans while leveling as a warrior.

>Should we balance the current unique pets so that they're more varied? or make them MORE unique so special snowflakes can show off and feel good about themselves and actually feel like they're hunting rare animals?
>nah fuck that shit, just make everything the exact same as everything else with a new coat of paint, it's way easier and it's not like we're paid a billion dollars in subscription fees or anything

You're a loser.

Well for one, any decent raiding guild is considering optimization first for content clears and keeping things on farm.

And two there is a best pve and pvp pet in vanilla. If you don't have it, you're at a fairly large disadvantage whenever your pet is being used.

Vanilla isn't legion: Being specced into tanking doesn't set an arbitrary invisible flag that makes you take half damage and hold threat. You're a tank if you're holding a shield using defensive stance.

Can people that have no idea what they're talking about please just go away from these threads?

Rare pets still exist, it's just a visual thing.
People will always minmax, especially when it's something as simple and easily achievable as getting the best pets. Nobody likes feeling like they're intentionally gimping themselves by playing with an objectively inferior pet.

>It's a "every single person that played vanillia wow was a member of a hardcore rading guild that needed to minmax everything and this was literally all it was so it makes sense to balance the game around this vocal minority" episode

There's actually a lot of different pets for both PvE and PvP. Of course, there was almost always one clearly superior for each species (ZG raptor, Broken Tooth, Lupos, etc).

Yeah, I always wear cloth on my warrior too. I'm not some tryhard minmaxer.

but end game raiding and pvp for good goy points were literally tacked on to keep the autists busy. makes no sense to ruin your game for a very small group.

You have no idea.

Leveling a warrior without good gear is a pain in the ass, and Deflection is a perfectly fine talent for tanking 5 mans as an arms warrior, which you should be doing.

Prot only becomes important later one and your dps as a warrior until Smite's Hammer will leave a lot to be desired when you're 1 v 1ing mobs.