Why do most nip games can't into subtle writing?

For some reason in a lot of cases they have either to over-explaining everything or make tons of exposition do all the work. Most of the time when Japanese game has a somewhat subtle writing, it actually turns out to have the least amount of written word.
Why is that the case?

Japanese theatre is ultimately derived from kabuki, which necessitates over-explanation. If you think games are bad, you should see their dramas.

There are also cases where ambiguity is removed by translators, too. For an EOP friendly example, I guess you could look at Kaban from kemono friends being referred to as a girl from the first episode in English. There was no distinction in Japanese, but you can't refer to someone as thon/thon in English.

I don't watch anime or really play a lot of nip games that have much writing to speak of but from what I can gather, the Japanese language is first off extremely literal compared to most other languages in the world. So unlike a conversation in say, English, where there's a spoken word underlined by a subtle nuance that states what the character is saying is not actually what they mean/not actually what they're referring to, there's no equivalents in the Japanese language. Secondly, it seems to be part of their culture that things are not left unclear or up to the interpretation of uncertain terms when two parties are meeting or conversing, as a courtesy thing. And this habit of presenting what you mean completely and clearly probably carries over into creative works as well.

>For some reason in a lot of cases they have either to over-explaining everything or make tons of exposition do all the work.

Are you talking about Japanese writing or English translations of Japanese writing? Because even common Japanese is extremely ambiguous and the only way to properly translate it into English is by explaining everything in detail.

Japanese is very literal and very reliant on proper syntax to even differentiate two verbs correctly.

English isn't.

>Japanese
>あぁ、猫だ!
>English
>Look, it's a cat!

If you think this is a good translation, I'm sorry, but you might be retarded. "Here kitty kitty" is a better translation of that fucking line, because it's something an English speaker might actually say in an informal context.

People who think Japanese is literal haven't spent 2 seconds with the language. They've just been reading low quality, machine tier translations that are crapped out in 5 minutes by someone who doesn't take the time to consider the basic question "Would anyone ever say this in English?".

The only reason the language comes off as too literal is because translators are underpaid and lazy. You pay peanuts, you get monkey work.

Just play FFXII

>"Here kitty kitty" is a better translation
No it's not
That phrase isn't beckoning or talking to the cat at all

How is "here kitty kitty" a good translation for that? It's missing the surprise and exclamation that the original Japanese sentence had.

This. Though I would add,
1. People who don't know Japanese (or worse, think knowing kana is the same) should stop commenting on the language/translations, such as , 2. VN/LN-style writing is still repetitive by nature, just ideally the prose is interesting.

I did. Sadly, aside from world-building writing didn't seem to me anything special.

I didn't say it was a good translation. I said it was better than "Look, it's a cat!", which it is.

>It's missing the surprise and exclamation
My bad. "Here kitty kitty!". Does that help?

Sometimes the subtlety just gets tossed out in translation, like with FFX.

You completely changed the meaning of the sentence. The original is showing surprise and bringing attention to the cat. Your translation not only lacks the surprise but has the character attempting to draw the cat's attention.

>I said it was better than "Look, it's a cat!", which it is.
It's not, at all.
In fact, I can't imagine a worse translation of that phrase.

There is no Japanese person who would ever use the phrase あぁ、猫だ! in the way an English person uses "here, kitty kitty."
I defy you to show me an example of it.

What about Dark Souls?

They just don't seem to have the same culture of lit that the west does. Greeks were dissecting what made some writing good and what made some bad 2500 years ago. Japan does not inherent this culture like we do in the west.

Japan is such a bootleg everything. From literature to art to equipment and armor they've been inferior throughout history to their European counterparts and only after being hit by two nukes did they turn around and start copying the West in positive ways, matching them in some industries (like animation for a time) and outright beating them in others (electronics, tech and video games)

"Here kitty kitty" would be more like "kocchi kocchi, neko-chan/koneko-chan*"

*If it's a kitten.

Post more GSC

Yup. The westernization of Japan is one of the greatest thing that has ever happened. SK too.
Maybe nuking NK wouldn't even be such a bad thing.

They probably wouldn't actually refer to the cat, because they're talking directly to it.

You don't understand translation. Here, I'll attempt to explain it for you.

>man sees cat
>[phrase implying a positive reaction of said cat]

That's it. You can put anything you want in there, as long as it's fairly short and isn't contradicted by following lines. "Here kitty kitty" works fine. Translation is not a business of stock phrases converted to their "direct" equivalent in another language. It's about preserving the feel of the original in a language that could be vastly different.

Sup Forums will just screech you're a Jew shoving non-white, female protag, lesbian shows around. So don't bother.

>[phrase implying a positive reaction of said cat]
That's not what "here kitty kitty" is.

You say that when you're trying to goad a cat towards you.

Maybe you need to learn English before you learn Japanese.

>It's about preserving the feel of the original
Which you did not do.

>[phrase implying a positive reaction of said cat]
You're simplifying it too much. ああ, translates to Ah! or Oh! which shows that the speaker didn't realize there was a cat until just that instant. Besides, someone saying something like "Oh hey, it's a cat" sounds more natural than "Here kitty kitty".

>Americans
>Subtlety

*Laugh track intensifies*

>It can't be helped
who the fuck actually says this.

>"Oh hey, it's a cat"
Find me one English native who has ever said that fucking line.

Delete this!

Dank souls is somewhat sucessful at it desu

But no one said anything about American media

>You completely changed the meaning of the sentence.

Context is important. Daijoubu talks about healthy husbands, itadakimasu means "I take/receive", ohayou means "early"...
Just because they say it in such a way doesn't mean it has to be translated in such a way.

You don't go around randomly calling out cats you happen to see while walking with a friend.

It's a stock phrase for 仕方がない, which is a phrase that doesn't have any real direct equivalent in English.
Literally, it means "there is no way," but it's used to mean that an unfortunate circumstance cannot be changed, so don't try. It sounds defeatist but it's not. It's hard to explain.

It's like when it's raining out, and you aren't happy about that, but you have to leave your house anyway.

A good translation would cater 仕方がない to each individual usage, but a lot of translators just want to push it out so they swap in catch-all phrases like "it can't be helped."

Which is exactly why people are telling you "here kitty kitty" is retarded. Translating "neko da!" into "here kitty kitty!" is like a machine translation. It's basically making "here's/there's a cat" into "COME HERE CAT"
It doesn't reflect context. It betrays a complete lack of appreciation for it.

Stop pretending like you know the first thing about Japanese. It's embarrassing.

Anyone who has studied for as little as a week can point out what a terrible translation you've made.

Me, they are also the last words I spoke before getting into my first car accident

Dark Souls has the most subtle writing of any video game in the past 10 years.

Instead of spoonfeeding it to you they hide it under a rock and you feel a lot more invested in it because it's something you had to piece together yourself.

>outright beating them in others (electronics, tech and video games)
You are fucking delusional if you believe this.

>You don't go around randomly calling out cats you happen to see while walking with a friend.
Who the fuck are you to dictate I don't? This pompous presumptious fucking attitude of yours just invalidated anything else you have to say about language or any other topic, just get the fuck off my board you friendless linguistic wannabe, you've clearly never been out with friends if you're so dire and stupid that you would even think this isn't something people do, equally repulsive is if you were implying it somehow inappropriate conduct or discouraged. Just fucking leave, you don't know shit

>You don't go around randomly calling out cats you happen to see while walking with a friend.
I sure fucking do, besides you haven't given any context for your sentence to suggest they are calling out to the cat at all. It sounds more like something you'd say to your friend while pointing at the cat you've just spotted.

you sound like you clap at movies.

Because manchildren can't understand subtlety. That's why they're called manchildren.

this is a good post

>a lot of cases they have either to over-explaining everything or make tons of exposition do all the work
Examples? Most of the jrpgs I played underexplain things.

Why not just use "hey, a cat!".

That works too

Ah, a cat!

because you couldnt understand the plot of FF13 the first time you played it where everything was explained to the characters that live in that world and not to the player who doesnt understand what even is going on.

>You don't go around randomly calling out cats you happen to see while walking with a friend.
Yes I do?

Well, didn't that game have a big lore menu you could use?

In a way I appreciate that the characters who've lived in that world their whole lives don't need to have their own world explained to them.

Or you know,
"Ah, a cat!"

Since when does a universal exclamation of surprise (not even a word) even require translation? It would be perfectly fine for the subs to omit it as well unless the viewer is a legit raging autist.

>You don't go around randomly calling out cats you happen to see while walking with a friend.

Well who the fuck randomly goes "here kitty kitty." while walking with a friend without drawing attention to it first? I know trying to get it's attention would be the 2nd thing I'd say.

You may know more about Japanese, but I question your knowledge of English.

そりゃあ日本語の話し言葉と書き言葉はかなり乖離しているからな。

t.日本人

>t.日本人
疑ってる

>t.日本人
Hello English teacher san

>Why do most nip games can't into subtle writing?
because most nip translators can't into nip

>You don't go around randomly calling out cats you happen to see while walking with a friend
yes you do. depends on the friend though, girls do it all the time

>You don't go around randomly calling out cats you happen to see while walking with a friend.
I do that

Hi!

>Ending literally beats you over the head with "YOU ARE BIG BOSS :^)"
>subtle
MGS2 did the same fucking thing 1000000x better and more subtle

obsessed

i'm real japanese
英語の教師じゃねーよ(´Д⊂ヽ

>ending is the whole story
Maybe you shouldn't talk about story or subtlety for that matter.

not really. nerds prefer and stick to the details of world settings, and often show it to everyone. its fucking common all over the world

western AAA devs havent done this now because AAA shits are literally for casuals and they and most of indies dont make story driven linear RPGs anymore.

insecure nip detected

Sup Forumsで日本語で書き込む時点で日本人でないことを証明しちゃってるようなものだ

t.ギリシャ人

Op you can read and write Japanese?

>implying anything else in MGSV is subtle
I WAS BORN IN A SMALL VILLAGE
[wo-hooooooooo interrupts for five minutes]
I HATE ZERO AND WANT HIM TO DIE SO I'M KILLING ENGLISH

please go back to Sup Forums

>i only understood the surface level
We get it user, you are a shallow brainlet. I'm sure there's some funposting threads for you in the catalog.

There is nothing subtle in MGSV.
I dare you to name one thing.

The storytelling, the themes, it's all fucking obvious, if not outright told to the audience.

This is a better one.

Different culture, they do subtle, just not western subtle.

Subtlety isn't found in most games, full-stop. The people writing games don't really care about that sort of thing.

user was walking with his friend, when suddenly a fluffy cat tip toed in front of them. user's eyes lit up in surprise. He pointed to the cat and said. "Here kitty kitty."

His friend looked up from his phone, to see what user was talking about. He established eye contact, and also pointed to the cat. "There kitty kitty"

user and his friend nodded in agreement. What had jumped in front of them was indeed a cat.

People are stupid fucktards who need everything spoonfed to them. Just look at all the brainlets who bitch about "plot holes" in FFVIII.

For some time I've been wondering if nips culturally don't care about exposition like we do. The beginning of Skyward Sword had such terrible writing it made me want to shut the game off.

This is a myth.

...

You're a god damned retard.

fuck no

Japan started copying the west since around 1880
that's why Japan got carried away in asia and then got nuked

>Why do most ___ games can't into subtle writing?
There you go

Wait what, you go
>hey look my dude there's a cat over there!
at your friend? When I pass by a cat I just kind of casually try to get its attention and within a second my friend will know what the fuck is going on.

that's a really cute art style, what show is this?

Gunsmith Cats.

thanks